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  #16  
Old Feb 24, '12, 9:57 pm
rlg94086 rlg94086 is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNapoleon View Post
I think its worth a scientific inquiry. What I would expect from any intellectually honest person is to consider the possibility that it is authentic until scientific analysis tells the tale. No one threw out the Bible just because it chronicles numerous historical events and details which are highly suspect and/or wrong. Christians are taught not to get lost in the erroneous historical minutiae. Why abandon that principle so readily in this case?
For one, there is far too much corroboration of the Gospels from the Early Church Fathers - all of it contrary to this one account. To believe that Jesus took Barnabus aside and said, *psst, Barnabus, I'm only telling you this...I'm not the Messiah. I'm just a man. God made Judas appear just like me, and that's who died on the Cross. Oh, and by the way, a greater prophet named Muhammad is coming soon* is the ultimate in gullibility.

Feel free to take it serious though. As I said, I fully expect you to suspend all logic and common sense to chase something that is contrary to the Church. Why should you apply skepticism to this? it is totally plausible to an anti-Catholic.

This is a conspiracy worthy of donning a tin-foil hat.
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  #17  
Old Feb 24, '12, 9:57 pm
Fiasco Fiasco is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNapoleon View Post
I think its worth a scientific inquiry. What I would expect from any intellectually honest person is to consider the possibility that it is authentic until scientific analysis tells the tale. No one threw out the Bible just because it chronicles numerous historical events and details which are highly suspect and/or wrong. Christians are taught not to get lost in the erroneous historical minutia. Why abandon that principle so readily in this case?
Can you give us irrefutable examples?

PS
rig:
re your second paragraph: DITTO!
There`s enough evidence on these forums......
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  #18  
Old Feb 24, '12, 10:25 pm
MugenOne MugenOne is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

The Gospel of Barnabas is not an authentic Gospel of Jesus. The author does not understand the language, history or geography of the 1st century A.D., and there is no ancient evidence for the book. The internal evidence of the book suggests it was written in the 14th century, and there are Muslim scholars who agree with this dating. The book is a rewrite of the Biblical Gospel most likely by a Muslim who wanted to portray Jesus as a Muslim who taught Islam and predicted the coming of Muhammad. This type of rewriting has been done elsewhere by Muslims in the Gospel According to Islam. It is disgraceful for Islamic leaders to continue to publish, promote and distribute this false Scripture. It is disgraceful for them to create this deliberate confusion and make mischief.
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  #19  
Old Feb 24, '12, 10:34 pm
EmperorNapoleon EmperorNapoleon is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
For one, there is far too much corroboration of the Gospels from the Early Church Fathers - all of it contrary to this one account.
First of all; I'm not passing any judgements on this until there is a scientific analysis and I'm not speculating on whether or not the contents are actually true. At the moment, I'm only interested in how old it is. Determining the age of the book is the first step in vetting its contents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiasco View Post
Can you give us irrefutable examples?
I'm not interested in starting a debate on the historical accuracy of the bible but I'll throw you a bone.

Roman Census
Classification: Highly suspect.
Why: 1. Someone would have noticed such an unprecedented mass exodus of Roman citizenry but there isn't a single document, tablet, scribble on a parchment, etc. written by any of the contemporaries of this alleged event including the Romans. In short, there's no independent record of an Empire-wide census ever occurring and it is not the manner in which the Romans conducted their census'.

2. Luke's account in Acts places this alleged census after the revolt of Theudas which occurred in the year 46 C.E. In other words, the alleged census during which Jesus was born took place 13 years after his death.

3. The books of Luke and Matthew are in conflict on this issue. Matthew says that Herrod was King and Luke says that Quirinius was governor of Syria during this census. Problem is that Herod died in 4 C.E. and Quirinius didn't become governor of Syria until 6 C.E.

etc. etc.

The point is that, in term of the canon, Christians don't care about inaccurate historical details but accuse non-canocial books of being modern forgeries for having similar historical deficiencies. This book may very well be a modern forgery but it might also be an ancient forgery or even legitimate. That doesn't mean that anyone hast to believe its contents. Such parchments and books have been floating around for nearly 2000 years.

Last edited by EmperorNapoleon; Feb 24, '12 at 10:46 pm.
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  #20  
Old Feb 24, '12, 10:38 pm
ChrisRedfield47 ChrisRedfield47 is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Many many things are fishy about this one.

First, the canon is closed. Second, it goes completely against the bible, its never going to be part of the bible lol. Third, howd they get the high price?
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  #21  
Old Feb 24, '12, 11:06 pm
oldcelt oldcelt is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
3. The books of Luke and Matthew are in conflict on this issue. Matthew says that Herrod was King and Luke says that Quirinius was governor of Syria during this census. Problem is that Herod died in 4 C.E. and Quirinius didn't become governor of Syria until 6 C.E.

etc. etc.
Etc., etc., is the point...all that you, I, or anyone else think we know about an unseen deity is a matter of FAITH.

John
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  #22  
Old Feb 25, '12, 2:53 am
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Originally Posted by catharina View Post
No.
According to the original NEWS LINK, the Pope has sent for this book.
No validation of any such request from the Vatican.
The Vatican doesn't announce to the media every small act of its massive bureaucracy. I don't think they would want to draw additional attention to this book until they've examined it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele View Post
The Church has already declared the books of the Bible. Case closed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRedfield47 View Post
First, the canon is closed.
The Church has indeed declared what books constitute the biblical canon. What it has not done is say that no books may ever be added to that canon - fortunately for our Eastern brethren.
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  #23  
Old Feb 25, '12, 3:20 am
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Sam_777 Sam_777 is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

- 1'st that manuscript is rejected by the Church.
- 2'nd that manuscript is rejected by Muslims because it contains some verses which contradict the Quran itself.
- 3'ed it was written using gold, which indicates it was written by or for a wealthy person to create manipulation.
- 4'th it was written in the 16th century.

The only thing the Vatican can do is to perform a radioactive scan to discover the gold age.
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  #24  
Old Feb 25, '12, 4:14 am
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_777 View Post
- 1'st that manuscript is rejected by the Church.
- 2'nd that manuscript is rejected by Muslims because it contains some verses which contradict the Quran itself.
- 3'ed it was written using gold, which indicates it was written by or for a wealthy person to create manipulation.
- 4'th it was written in the 16th century.

The only thing the Vatican can do is to perform a radioactive scan to discover the gold age.
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  #25  
Old Feb 25, '12, 4:29 am
Fiasco Fiasco is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorNapoleon View Post
I'm not interested in starting a debate on the historical accuracy of the bible but I'll throw you a bone.

Roman Census
Classification: Highly suspect.
Why: 1. Someone would have noticed such an unprecedented mass exodus of Roman citizenry but there isn't a single document, tablet, scribble on a parchment, etc. written by any of the contemporaries of this alleged event including the Romans. In short, there's no independent record of an Empire-wide census ever occurring and it is not the manner in which the Romans conducted their census'.

2. Luke's account in Acts places this alleged census after the revolt of Theudas which occurred in the year 46 C.E. In other words, the alleged census during which Jesus was born took place 13 years after his death.

3. The books of Luke and Matthew are in conflict on this issue. Matthew says that Herrod was King and Luke says that Quirinius was governor of Syria during this census. Problem is that Herod died in 4 C.E. [! Do you mean 4 BC?] and Quirinius didn't become governor of Syria until 6 C.E.

etc. etc.

The point is that, in term of the canon, Christians don't care about inaccurate historical details but accuse non-canocial books of being modern forgeries for having similar historical deficiencies.......
Not being a dog, i don`t chew bones, especially ones that are THROWN at me. i`m not quite that hard up.
Thanks; but no thanks.

Your own grasp of dates seems a bit shaky: for a start, we don`t know the year that Horrid "the Great" died. Most scholars believe he died in 4 BC, shortly after a lunar eclipse in March of that year. BUT, there`s a growing belief that he died in the early (Northern) Spring of 1 BC, shortly after a lunar eclipse in January. We know that he died soon after a lunar eclipse, and that our Lord was born a year or two before that.

Regarding Luke`s "inaccuracies": Josephus records that during the last years of Horrid`s rule,
Quote:
Judea was required to swear an oath of loyalty to Ceasar. Archeological evidence confirms that the same type of oath was sworn elsewhere in the Empire around 3 BC. This might well mean that the registration described in Luke 2:1 involved an oath of allegiance sworn to the Emperor, not a census taken for the purpose of taxation. A later Christian historian named Orosius (fifth century AD) says explicitly that Augustus required every person in every Roman province to be enrolled with a public oath. His description of the event strongly suggests that this oath was required in the years just prior to 2 BC.
Source: Ignatius Study Bible. The Gospel of Luke. Commentary by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch.

In the same commentary:
Quote:
The role of Quirinius is perhaps the most difficult detail in Luke`s narrative (Luke 2:2). It is well established that he initiated a taxation census soon after he was appointed the provincial legate of Syria in AD 6. Yet evidence is lacking that he held that position more than once, or that he ever conducted more than one census. How, then, can Luke associate Quirinius with a census that occurred many years earlier, when Jesus was born? The most helpful clue might be found in Luke`s own words. The Greek expression that he uses in Luke 2:2 for the governing role of Quirinius is the exact description he uses for Pontius Pilate`s governing role in Luke 3:1. Since Pilate "governed" as a regional procurator; and was not the legate of an entire Roman province (like Syria), it leaves open the possibility that Luke is referring to an administrative role assumed by Quirinius that had nothing to do with his later position as an imperial legate. This possibility is strengthened by the Church Father Justin Martyr, who states that Quirinius was a "procurator" in Judea (not Syria) at the time of Jrsus` birth! It likewise enables us to make greater sense of the testimony of another early Christian writer, Tertullian, who says that Saturninus (not Quirinius) was the official legate of Syria at the time of the Nativity. It may be that Quirinius was an administrator of a Judean census (i.e., the 3 BC oath-registration) several years before conducting another census for taxation in AD 6
This would place the Nativity in 3 or 2 BC, and Horrid`s death in 1BC.
There`s uncertainty......

etc. etc.

So, your claim that we Christians don`t care about inaccurate historical details is a sieve; and holds no water.

Accusing the ancient Scripture writers of historical inaccuracy, when we don`t have all of the facts, may well cause the accusers to end up with egg on their faces.

Long-winded; but there was no choice.

Last edited by Fiasco; Feb 25, '12 at 4:46 am.
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  #26  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:33 am
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jakasaki jakasaki is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

This alone is an insult to islams prophet. Giving the title to Mohamad as a "Messiah"

And this one line alone contradicts their koran, because in their koran it calls Jesus the Messiah.

Quote:
In one version of the gospel, he is said to have told a priest: 'How shall the Messiah be called? Muhammad is his blessed name'.
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  #27  
Old Feb 25, '12, 8:08 am
He Man He Man is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

There are two issues here.

Scientifically, whether it was actually written when it is purported to have been, i.e., dating the text.

Religiously, (and only debated if the text is authentic) whether or not the words written are actually true (not in dispute, even among the scientific community). Most in the scientific community don't care so much about this debate (words being true), since that is a theological debate, not supported by any other major text. Any support it lends to Islam instantly discredits it anyway, since we know it to be a religion not grounded in the fullness of the truth.

I could care less either way, personally. I didn't think about it yesterday, and won't worry about it tomorrow. It's bogus text.
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  #28  
Old Feb 25, '12, 9:33 am
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karaleigh karaleigh is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

Quote:
Originally Posted by svid2 View Post
Probably bogus.

Why is it supposedly worth 14 million? Where did they get that number? And why would PHOTOCOPY of a SINGLE PAGE be worth 1.5 million? Is this a joke?

And why do they call it a bible?
As well as, the damages flash photo could cause to anything 1500 yrs old! Everything older then 200 yrs the Vatican handles with latex gloves.
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  #29  
Old Feb 25, '12, 9:38 am
hamba2han hamba2han is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

One thing is for sure though i.e. if indeed this book is 1500 years old, then it is simply not possible for it to have been written by Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) only came in the 7th Century CE.

Interesting development.. but I don't think that I will be holding my breath in anticipation.
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  #30  
Old Feb 25, '12, 9:56 am
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gilliam gilliam is offline
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Default Re: 1500 yo Gospel of Barnabas

The earliest mention of a "Gospel of Barnabas" that actually talks about what is in what we now term as the "Gospel of Barnabas" dates to 1634

Until this document is authenticated, we don't know when it was created.
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