Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #16  
Old Feb 25, '12, 11:03 am
jpeil jpeil is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2009
Posts: 7
Religion: catholic
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

I think we have to be careful in not distracting ourselves from some of the real traditional marriage challenges Christians have today by thinking a legal option in preventing same sex marriages will some how protect traditional marriage. I am not in support of same sex marriage but its hard to make the argument when Christians divorce and committ adultry at the same rate as non-christians and how that already impacts society today.What do you think is the perception of traditional marriage among Christian children from divorced family is already and what has it done to their faith?We are doing more damage to traditional marriage ourselves then any outside influence could ever accomplish.For every pound of effort we are putting into this legal fight we should be puttting 10lbs of effort into redefining what a good Catholic marriage should be and how to protect and nurture it. A generation of well formed Catholic children raised in good Catholic homes is the really bullwork to protect marriage. If same sex laws gain momentum we need to make sure we are investing proportionally in changing and forming hearts and minds of the faithful.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Feb 25, '12, 11:31 am
MrSylvester MrSylvester is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: December 10, 2011
Posts: 608
Religion: Traditionalist Catholic.
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeil View Post
I think we have to be careful in not distracting ourselves from some of the real traditional marriage challenges Christians have today by thinking a legal option in preventing same sex marriages will some how protect traditional marriage. I am not in support of same sex marriage but its hard to make the argument when Christians divorce and committ adultry at the same rate as non-christians and how that already impacts society today.What do you think is the perception of traditional marriage among Christian children from divorced family is already and what has it done to their faith?We are doing more damage to traditional marriage ourselves then any outside influence could ever accomplish.For every pound of effort we are putting into this legal fight we should be puttting 10lbs of effort into redefining what a good Catholic marriage should be and how to protect and nurture it. A generation of well formed Catholic children raised in good Catholic homes is the really bullwork to protect marriage. If same sex laws gain momentum we need to make sure we are investing proportionally in changing and forming hearts and minds of the faithful.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Feb 26, '12, 2:46 am
LaSalle LaSalle is offline
Junior Member
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2004
Posts: 432
Religion: Cradle Catholic
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeil View Post
I think we have to be careful in not distracting ourselves from some of the real traditional marriage challenges Christians have today by thinking a legal option in preventing same sex marriages will some how protect traditional marriage. I am not in support of same sex marriage but its hard to make the argument when Christians divorce and committ adultry at the same rate as non-christians and how that already impacts society today.What do you think is the perception of traditional marriage among Christian children from divorced family is already and what has it done to their faith?We are doing more damage to traditional marriage ourselves then any outside influence could ever accomplish.For every pound of effort we are putting into this legal fight we should be puttting 10lbs of effort into redefining what a good Catholic marriage should be and how to protect and nurture it. A generation of well formed Catholic children raised in good Catholic homes is the really bullwork to protect marriage. If same sex laws gain momentum we need to make sure we are investing proportionally in changing and forming hearts and minds of the faithful.
Precisely. We really should concerntrate on that, that is doing more harm to marriage than legalizing gay marriages.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Feb 26, '12, 3:11 am
Perplexity Perplexity is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2010
Posts: 1,074
Religion: Philosopher
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Our main opposition to legalizing same sex unions is that homosexual sex is a sin and people will go to Hell because of it.

Legalizing same sex union is promoting sin. Promoting sin is a sin, if we promote sin then we go to Hell too.

We love other people and we love Jesus. We don't want to go to Hell and we don't want other people to go to Hell. That is why we don't promote same sex unions - because it is a sin, and because we love people, and we don't want them to go to Hell.

Everything else you mentioned is besides the point.


-Tim-
I think this reasoning is scary and dangerous. You're saying if something is sinful, then it should be illegal. Just think of all the things the Church considers sinful. If everything the Church considered sinful became illegal, we may as well just be a theocracy lol
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Feb 26, '12, 7:45 pm
MrSylvester MrSylvester is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: December 10, 2011
Posts: 608
Religion: Traditionalist Catholic.
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexity View Post
I think this reasoning is scary and dangerous. You're saying if something is sinful, then it should be illegal. Just think of all the things the Church considers sinful. If everything the Church considered sinful became illegal, we may as well just be a theocracy lol
Not even in theocracies was every sin illegal. Adultery wasn't illegal but it was condemned and people could live in the Papal States without fear of forced conversion. Legalizing same sex 'marriage' means throwing real marriage out of the window, just as divorce and civil 'marriage' threw its sanctity out.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Feb 27, '12, 2:24 am
LaSalle LaSalle is offline
Junior Member
Radio Club Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2004
Posts: 432
Religion: Cradle Catholic
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSylvester View Post
Er, yes we are trying to change someone else's mind on the issue. We want pro-choice people to change their mind son the subjects of abortion so likewise we want gay 'couples' to change their minds. In abortion, you can't use the absolutely ridiculous argument "Are you opposed to abortion? Don't have one." Thats like having a burglar telling you "Hate robbery? Don't commit it but I'll respect your right to not be robbed." Or better yet, its like having Hitler tell you "Opposed to genocide? Don't commit it." If we don't change people's minds on the issue, how are we going to remove this evil?
Actually, your analogy is quite flawed. In abortion and genocide, we are trying to point out that people are being killed. Objectively verifiable. It still stumps me that people who are pro-choice(death) refuse to see that what is being killed is a child.

What constitutes sin on the other hand is not recognised as objectively verifiable. As catholics we believe it is, but we cannot force someone to change their minds on this without going the whole 9 yards of getting them to accept catholicism, let alone object to a change in the law. (even Protestants do not believe that sin can be objectively defined - what is sin in one denomination is not a sin in another - and they're God believing Christians already!)

Can you imagine how you would react if the 1.5 billion Muslim population felt that they had to change the law to criminalise what they would deem a sin? Ferinstance outlaw pork. We would consider them forcing their religious views on us. We do not consider eating pork a sin. Similarly, gays do not believe that homosexual acts are sins.

I think we have to make our rejection of these unions clearer, and we cannot invoke religion as a basis AT ALL, because the moment you do that, you will be accused of forcing your religion down their throats ... as is the case now.

The problem with the secular arguments, how this will erode society, how it is bad for children growing in such homes are not very convincing for various reasons. We really need to conduct a study on the whole issue with as many reps from different factions as possible. Afterall, not a few will accept the reasoning if studies can conclusively show the harmful effects of such unions. The problem is, it cannot or studies that do are accused of being biased.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Feb 27, '12, 7:08 am
Perplexity Perplexity is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2010
Posts: 1,074
Religion: Philosopher
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSylvester View Post
Not even in theocracies was every sin illegal. Adultery wasn't illegal but it was condemned and people could live in the Papal States without fear of forced conversion.
I agree, but this guy's reasoning logically concludes with some kind of theocratic totalitarian state.

Quote:
Legalizing same sex 'marriage' means throwing real marriage out of the window, just as divorce and civil 'marriage' threw its sanctity out.
Legalizing same sex 'marriage' would just change the legal status of homosexual couples. It has nothing to do with 'real' marriage (I assume you mean sacramental marriage?).
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Feb 27, '12, 8:28 am
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2010
Posts: 9,571
Default Re: Relook our strategy against legalizing same sex "marriage"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexity View Post
I think this reasoning is scary and dangerous. You're saying if something is sinful, then it should be illegal. Just think of all the things the Church considers sinful. If everything the Church considered sinful became illegal, we may as well just be a theocracy lol
Please don't tell me what I am saying. I never said anything about a theocracy or making anthing illegal. I wrote about the secular government promoting sin, the secular govenrment making laws which actively promote sinful behavior, and it is nothing to laugh at. What do you think Christ meant by the following passage?
At that he said to them, “Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” (Matthew 22:21)
Christ himself taught us that there are things which fall under the authority of God. These are matters of faith and morality, and as God's authority on earth, the Church is the legitimate authority with regards to matters of faith and morals. Christ also told us that some things belong to Ceasar, to the secular government. The secular government is the legitimate authority for building roads, delivering mail and maintaining civil courts and crimminal justice systems.

Some things are rendered unto Ceasar and some things are rendered unto God. We have to ask ourselves who has legitimate authority here?

Sometimes these authorities overlap, such as in the area of marriage, where the civil authority has a legitimate need to regulate the disposition of property, the safety of children, and so forth. Where the Church has ultimate authority, it is the responsiblity of the civil authority to make decisions in light of Church teaching and to never contradict Church teaching. This is not a theocracy. God never forces himself on the secular society. The God of Isalm forces itself on secular society but the God of Abraham does not do so. The God of Abraham leaves us free to ignore him and his Church.

This is a big problem with the whole subect of homosexual unions.

First, out of respect for the teaching authority of the Church on matters of faith and morals which was granted to it by Christ himself, the secular government can never, ever, institute homosexual unions as marriage. In the case of the states which have legalized homosexual "Marriage", all they have done is assumed authority which is not theirs - they have overstepped the boundaries of their authority and have begun to legislate on matters where they have no authority. God calls that pride. Israel fell many times through that same error.

With regards to benefits and disposition of property within homosexual relationships, I understand that there is some overlap. But the several states which have adopted very liberal homosexual union laws have done so in a manner which does not take into account Church teaching, and here they have erred in a grave way.

Legislation on matters of civil governance, enlightened by Church teaching, is not a theocracy, but is a sober understanding of where legitimate authority lies, and whot he ultimate authority realy is.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; Feb 27, '12 at 8:42 am.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8569Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Kellyreneeomara
5241CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: UpUpAndAway
4436Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3895Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: DesertSister62
3876SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany
3463Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3318Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3237Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3171For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: eschator83



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 2:24 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.