Semen Analysis : Low morphology ? Trusting or not trusting

[FrenchGwen]

Hello there

A bit of contexte first :
we've been TTC for 10 cycles now and although I have marvellous cycles, and we timed things perfectly, no baby yet. My Ob-Gyn was understanding enough to have us start some exams.
- Ultrasound : nothing
- Hysterosalpingography : open to 85%, but "should not cause any problem"

then came DH'S Seminal Fluid Analysis, results came yesterday and we're just at a loss.
First we were desperate because it stated both a light asthenospermy, and an EXTREME (yep, inclusive the huge writing. very sensitive, isn't it ?) teratospermy : only 4% of those little swimmers have a normal morphology, most have defaults, mostly in the head area.

I've been trying to get in touch with my ObGyn ever since, but he won't explain these resultats on the phone, so we have to wait until an appointment that can't be earlier as March, 12.
The uncertainty's killing us, though.
- many internet sources and forums state the answer to the problem is AMP / IVF or ICSI
-but we read, too, that such results not necessarily exclude fair chances of becoming pregnant naturally, given time, but that those catastrophic interpretations mainly are due to the fact that
1. they want to "sell" you IVF
2. the new, more severe criteria used (Kruger) are oriented for IVF purpose : only swimmers that would be fit for IVF as declared "normal", whereas Mother Nature's not as picky and may very well allow an "abnormal" swimmer to meet an egg and produce a perfectly healthy baby
3. they mainly deal with couples that just want to get pregnant "as soon as possible', by all means, even if waiting longer led them to a natural pregnancy.

So I guess I would very, very much hear about your experiences with Seminal Fluid Analysis : I'm not asking for medical advice, but if you could share what you experienced in matters of how accurate the diagnosis was, if IVF was shoved down your throat and you finally could fall pregnant on your own.
Of course I would very much appreciate experiences from people with the same problem as our (low morphology)

Thanks. We just feel very lonely in this, not knowing what we can reasonably expect, and what our options are.

[Monicad]

Thank you for coming here and sharing, please be assured of my prayers infertility is a heavy cross to bear.

I do not have any direct advice for you, and your post contained a lot of medical information and questions so I am concerned that the moderators may close it on the basis it is a medical thread. That being said I wanted to offer you this link right away:

http://www.popepaulvi.com/

I hope they can help you in some way and you can find someone in your area that is helpful. God bless you and take care as best as you can.

[FrenchGwen]

Thanks Monicad.
uh, yet I don't want any medical advice ? Well, I hope before they close my thread they'll ask me and tell me what I should delete it so that it fits their expectations.

Thanks for the link, I've been reading into this. Unfortunately I live in France, so NaPro ... I think there may be ONE clinic in the whole of the country, it's only beginning to arrive.

[sacredcello]

Hi FrenchGwen,

I'm sorry about the test results.

However, I have read the same thing as you, about the Kruger criteria for sperm morphology being set by IVF doctors. There is a profit motive for them to set the standard so high.

My acupuncturist told me that her husband was tested and his sperm was "very bad", but then after treating him with Chinese herbs, his sperm is now completely normal.

She also told me that they can give a man Clomid, if needed, for certain problems with sperm (not sure if it is count or morphology).

I am fortunate to be seeing a NaPro doctor, so I don't have to worry about them putting IVF forward. I know that my doctor does phone consultations and blood work can be done locally. I wonder if the NaPro doctor in your country will do the same?

[faithfully]

DH had sperm issues to the MAX. He is a TC survivor. Low mortality, low morph. low EVERYTHING...

quoting DH... "Great! The ones that are alive and swimming, swim in circles!" He had a good attitude about it. Which is also VERY important. This can be VERY demoralizing. Just like when you feel low as if your body is betraying you and your spouse. He will feel very much the same. That he can't "give you a baby".

The following is NOT medical advise, but more common sense when you understand where sperm live in the body and the things that impact them.

Things that are KNOWN to impact these counts. WEIGHT and DIET!

Being the slightest bit overweight effects hormones therefore effects ALL counts. Also important to NOT get obsessive with working out. Do some research with regards to chronic cardio and workouts... ETC.

If he's a cyclist, it would be wise to back off of that, PRESSURE = BAD. Underwear make a HUGE difference. Boxers or briefs. Tight = heat = higher death rate. There is a reason testicals are located OUTSIDE the body! NO HOT Bathes, or steam rooms, or saunas, or hot tubs.


Diet, get all the bad foods out. Anything with preservatives, packaged, alcohol. Do some research on supplements. Consider that convential meat is often treated with HORMONES, and therefore you/he are ingesting said hormones. It's like taking meds without an RX. Ever wonder why girls are developing at age 8? TOO MANY HORMONES in their food! Googl this. And fact, google/scholar this. You'll get past the opinions of the layman. You'll find a lot of info there. But you'll start to come across some pretty mainstream stuff that helps.

He may need to learn some destressing tactics? I would suggest meditative prayer.

And then OF COURSE a physical... Let the doctor guide in any HEALTH issues. Get a blood panel to make sure he's not deficient in anything.

All this said. MY DH had a huge improvement in his counts by making simple changes. I was not properly comprehensive of IVF... That's the route we took. However, I CAN CONFIRM his counts were WAY up at the time of the treatment.

It's really important to remember. You ONLY NEED ONE!!!! Little NON DRASTIC changes can make a HUGE improvement.

[FrenchGwen]

Thank you both for your input.

that could be a good idea, sacredcello, with the "phone consultations", we'll wait and see how things develop, and look into it if we feel we need a less biassed point of view.
Yet I doubt my current ObGyn will actually pressure us into IVF, he's quite a natural guy, he would sure help us to do it if WE wanted to, but if not he's shown to be really respectful of our feelings till now.
It's more the labor which I would suspect of this, but they're not the ones we'll deal everyday with
(the problem is, we're going to move from Paris, in a smaaaaaall town, which will very much reduce the choice in practitioners besides "forcing me away" from my ObGyn. Bad timing, but, that's the way it is.)

and I've just bought Shannon's book online

thanks for your input faithfully.
weight will be no issue for us, since our marriage DH has put on 10kg, but he reaaaally needed them
but yes, I guess we'll have to be really careful about our diet even though we've been eating lot more fresh vegetables and fruit since summer; DH knows he's going to have to stop alcohol altogether, even though he so enjoys his little glass of Scottish whisky in the evenings. You're right about the hormones... we'll look into that, too !
he already wears boxers so this should be fine
as for supplements, I've looked into them, we'll just wait for our appointment with my gyn and then a urologist and start from then.

I'm so anxious about it, it may seem that DH might need surgery, too, because he's got unexplained problems in "this area" for quite a time and this may also all hang together. But we have to WAIT for a proper diagnosis.

[faithfully]

Originally Posted by FrenchGwen

I'm so anxious about it, it may seem that DH might need surgery, too, because he's got unexplained problems in "this area" for quite a time and this may also all hang together. But we have to WAIT for a proper diagnosis.

Having no idea what these problems might be, do NOT WAIT. His fertility is 100% dependant on the health of "this area".

[FrenchGwen]

We've been waiting far too long anyhow. DH was due to see a specialised doctor 1 year ago, but never did it.
now we'll just wait these 10 days in order to be referred to a really competent one

[yellowbird]

Originally Posted by FrenchGwen

We've been waiting far too long anyhow. DH was due to see a specialised doctor 1 year ago, but never did it.
now we'll just wait these 10 days in order to be referred to a really competent one

I am going to pray for you both.

[aloe]

My first thought was he does have some good swimmers so could you DTD every other day for 30 or 60 days to give those good ones the best possible chance? This is rather than timing it just for ovulation, just in case you are off by a bit. I do know that frequent DTD does do something for sperm counts so that is definitely another question to add to your list for the doctor. In France do you have naturopathic doctors? Maybe you can call the Pope Paul Institute and they can help you from long distance, it might be worth a shot to try and get a dialogue going.

[FrenchGwen]

Thanks for your imput.
Please some prayers, GynAppointment is tonight.
The "DTD" frequency thing is definitely among the questions I will ask.