‘Jesus Christ Superstar’ Banned in Belarus

[Rich Olszewski]

Originally Posted by Fiasco

When the temptation is put in front of us, a lot of us are only too ready to go after the "forbidden fruit".

So what?

As an entity, the USA is too full of itself. Our Lady predicted that Russia/the USSR would spread her errors; but the USA has done a great job of doing the same thing.
"The American Way"! "Americanism"! "Gahd bless Ahmurrica!" (Sorry about the lousy spelling! )

You are welcome to believe in apparitions, if you like.

Pope Leo XIII warned against the heresy of Americanism.

Yes. He didn't like the openness and freedoms associated with American democracy such as freedom of the press, and tolerance of all religious faiths.

God doesn`t judge folks by their material wealth, but by how they love and serve Him: spiritual wealth. Which society does a better job of that? Sometimes, laws are put in place for the wellbeing of citizens, not always out of sheer repressive bloodymindedness.

Sure. Look at the Pure Food and Drug Acts. And?

Read what our Lord said to the Church in Laodicea. His words apply perfectly to the corrupt and decadent West: Rev. 3:15-17. Strong words!

You may interpret that as such if you like.

[Santi2]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

I have a MAJOR problem with this thread! That stupid, poorly written song keeps getting stuck in my head!!!

"What's the buzz, tell me what's happening
"What's the buzz..."

[bellasbane]

Originally Posted by rlg94086

Your problem is apparrently that he used the word "relationship" with each other and with God, rather than using the word "love." Your "critical ear" is nothing more than semantics. Our "relationship" with God is one of love. Our "relation to each other" is one of love.

I would recommend some critical thinking to go along with your critical ear.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion. You are correct that a study of the Ten Commandments should start with Matthew 22:36-40. In fact, I would bet that Fr Barron would agree with you. This particular talk he gave was about idolatry in relation to the Greatest Commandment. Nothing in it was contrary to Matthew 22:36-40 or Church teaching. I'm sorry if you didn't get anything out of it.

I said he makes some good points!

[Fiasco]

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

So what?

!!!!!!
Yahoo serious???
Ever heard of the danger of ending up in a place called "Hell"?

You are welcome to believe in apparitions, if you like.

Thanks!
However, even without believing in apparitions, and ignoring Russia, it`s painfully obvious that the USA has exported a number of undesirable commodities: eg "gay rights", radical feminism, worship of the dirty dollar.

Yes. He didn't like the openness and freedoms associated with American democracy such as freedom of the press, and tolerance of all religious faiths.

......except Catholicism.
As your Founding Fathers stated: "......a Church without a pope." In other words: a spiritual conglomeration founded on heresy, like the house founded on sand.
Our Lord said: "......and it fell; and great was the fall of it." Matt. 7:27.
It took a lot of buffeting, but, in the end, it DID fall.
.
Like most of the West, the USA is hollow. Don`t get the idea that all of your material wealth, all of your Nimitz class Carriers, and the rest of your military might will save you. Other powerful societies have been reduced to dust, and blown away by the wind: just ask the prophet Daniel.

Sure. Look at the Pure Food and Drug Acts. And?

Sorry!
Not being an American, that`s a bit hard.
Speaking of drugs: another bad habit exported.

You may interpret that as such if you like.

There`s only one way to interpret it: ie by reading it.

I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth. For you say: "I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing."; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. [Rev. 3:15-17 RSV-Catholic Edition]

Maybe you don`t believe in Scripture......

Umm: Which branch of the Church do you belong to?

[drfye]

Originally Posted by JonNC

And of course, our view of the role of government here in the United States is (supposed) to be different. The main thrust of government here is (supposed) to be protection of individual rights, not restriction of behavior, except behavior that interferes with others' rights.


And that's fine, so long as there is an understanding that whenone's rights are limited, it is tait permission for others' rights to be restricted. Whether or not Jesus Christ Superstar is a cheap western show or not.


I certainly have no issue with Belorussion culture. I have an issue with restriction of speech.


I wasn't aware that it was declared blasphemous. It clearly isn't completely theologically sound, but then it isn't a doctrinal statement, either. Its a rock opera.
Jon

I agree with a lot of this opinion, it does seem extreme to ban it.

[Fiasco]

Originally Posted by drfye

I agree with a lot of this opinion, it does seem extreme to ban it.

Maybe they have more concern for standards of decency than we in the imploding West have.

[drfye]

Originally Posted by Fiasco

Maybe they have more concern for standards of decency than we in the imploding West have.

hmm, but is that the government or the people, can't the people decide for themselves what standards of decency to expose themselves to? It just seems a bit controlling to me.

[Hokomai]

Originally Posted by Tenofovir

This is also good because it shows some of our evangelical anti-theist friends that the world really does not share their beliefs. It's important for them to be reminded how out of whack with the human condition their nihilism is.

Eh?

[driscll_books]

It should be banned. Consider the lyrics sung by Mary Magdalene:
"I don't know how to love Him. He's just a man." She is referring to Jesus who is the Son of God and through whom all things were created. It doesn't take a lot of discernment to see the evil in that musical.

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by driscll_books

It should be banned. Consider the lyrics sung by Mary Magdalene:
"I don't know how to love Him. He's just a man." She is referring to Jesus who is the Son of God and through whom all things were created. It doesn't take a lot of discernment to see the evil in that musical.

Hold on a cotton-pickin' minute. WE know that He isn't 'just a man', with the benefit of 2,000 years of hindsight. Mary Magdalene may not have known any different until He appeared to her on Easter - remember she initially thought He was dead like anyone else would be and that His body had simply been taken somewhere else!

Besides which - look at the lyrics of the last verse. Her reaction to Him is one of awe - 'if He said He loved me, I'd be lost, I'd be frightened, I couldn't cope ... He scares me so'. That really strikes me as NOT the attitude of someone who still thinks He is 'just a man'.

[JonNC]

Originally Posted by LilyM

Hold on a cotton-pickin' minute. WE know that He isn't 'just a man', with the benefit of 2,000 years of hindsight. Mary Magdalene may not have known any different until He appeared to her on Easter - remember she initially thought He was dead like anyone else would be and that His body had simply been taken somewhere else!

Besides which - look at the lyrics of the last verse. Her reaction to Him is one of awe - 'if He said He loved me, I'd be lost, I'd be frightened, I couldn't cope ... He scares me so'. That really strikes me as NOT the attitude of someone who still thinks He is 'just a man'.

What is more, just look at that first line - "I don't know how to love Him." This too does not sound like the thoughts and feelings of someone who thought he was "just a man".
When she says,"He's a man. He's just a man." She's trying to understand why He doesn't seem like just a man. I think it is quite a powerful expression of her confusion regarding Him.

Jon

[Fiasco]

Originally Posted by drfye

hmm, but is that the government or the people, can't the people decide for themselves what standards of decency to expose themselves to? It just seems a bit controlling to me.

You`re right, of course. It was a stupid statement!

The democratically elected Western governments are the only way to go, complete with the legislating of abortion-on-demand, "gay" "marriage", "hate crime", same-sex adoption, underhand (and not so underhand) suppression of Christianity, etc, etc, etc.

[patrick457]

Originally Posted by driscll_books

It should be banned. Consider the lyrics sung by Mary Magdalene:
"I don't know how to love Him. He's just a man." She is referring to Jesus who is the Son of God and through whom all things were created. It doesn't take a lot of discernment to see the evil in that musical.

For one:

The whole song is not a definite statement - it's one character's opinion, which may or not be true. As Lily and Jon pointed out, the point of the song is Mary's confusion about who Jesus is: she's trying to convince herself that He's "just a man," but He's clearly unlike other men she had encountered before, as evidenced by His effect on Mary (which puzzles her).

What is interesting is that the first verses of this song is repeated by Judas just before he kills himself: this is of course followed by an ironic echo of his very first lines in the opera ("My mind is clearer now, alas, all too well..."). In the end, despite all his claims to be enlightened enough to "see where we all soon will be," Judas is himself still blind like most of the other characters.

I don't know how to love him,
I don't know why he moves me
He's a man, he's just a man
He's not a king, he's just the same
As anyone I know: he scares me so
When he's cold and dead, will he let me be?
Does he love - does he love me too?
Does he care for me?

My mind is in darkness; my God, I am sick
I've been used - you knew all the time
God, I'll never ever know
Why you chose me for your crime,
Your foul bloody crime...

[Holly3278]

I was just watching some clips from that movie earlier. I remember seeing it during high school music class and I hated it. I still do.

[Jaypeeto4]

JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR is not without it's theological errors, that's for sure.
Jesus, in Gethsemane, not knowing why he has to die, and even getting upset
at the Father for it, is grossly inaccurate and a mis-portrayal of Christ's character in this matter. Jesus knew WHY he had to die, for as 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, he and the Father planned the whole thing before the world was created. So, if I had my way, several of the lyrics to the otherwise-powerful GETHSEMANE scene in the show and in the film version, would be changed to be accurate.

But at the time they wrote it (at least), Webber and Rice were NOT believing Christians.
They were young guys who wanted to write a modern-day Passion Play showing how, even though times change, people and their attitudes, issues, and agendas, deep down, really do not.

Those upset by the song SUPERSTAR's lyrics (who are you? what have you sacrificed?...) are failing to note that this is the song sung by the ghost of Judas and by THE UNBELIEVERS as Christ is carrying the cross to Calvary.
Good grief, in REAL life, in the REAL carrying of the cross, the crowds said a heckuva lot more insulting things than that!! They spit at him, threw things at him, yelled BLASPHEMER !! at him, and then while he was nailed to the cross, they walked by "wagging their tongues" at him and mocking him, telling him to use his powers to come down from the cross, and a lot worse.
And some of you are upset by the words to SUPERSTAR, the final big song as he carries the cross? That song accurately reflects the way his critics felt about him.

JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR certainly has it's flaws, and if I could, I would change a few of the lyrics, but on the whole, this is a beautiful, touching and deeply inspirational musical.

I agree with the earlier poster who praised the Palm Sunday song, HOSANNA, which depicts the Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem. I **adore** that song; it is exhilarating, and it is the only really JOYOUS song in an otherwise rather sad story, after all the passion is not a happy week.

Yes, it's told through the self-justifying eyes of JUDAS. Always justifying why he doesn't believe anymore, ((falsely)) claiming to have uniquely been Jesus's "right hand man all along," which is not true, Jesus's CLOSEST intimates were Peter, then James and John.
But why are people upset at it being told thru the eyes of a SELF-JUSTIFYING Judas Iscariot? My own priest, who is otherwise very, very orthodox, tries to soften the reality of the evil of Judas, saying that Judas only betrayed Jesus because he secretly wanted Jesus to, once arrested, use his powers in front of the Sanhedrin and declare himself Messiah through a big miracle, then they would ALL believe (he thought) and the Kingdom would be ushered in.
Nice try, Father, but the Gospel of John, inspired by the spirit of God, portrays
a Judas who was a willful, practicing THIEF, who stole from the Son of God who, remember, had bestowed on Judas, too, miraculous powers, when he sent the apostles out two by two to evangelize the towns. Judas was a vicious, malicious man who betrayed Jesus out of pure spite after Jesus castigated him in front of all when Judas objected to the use of the expensive oil by Mary when she anointed him in Lazarus's house the Friday night before Good Friday in Bethany. It was at that very moment, after being called on the carpet by Jesus, that Judas decided to go to the priests and betray Jesus FOR MONEY. John even tells us, right in the Gospel, that Judas CARED NOTHING for the "poor," but said what he said precisely "because he was a THIEF..."

So, SUPERSTAR's depiction of Judas as making up all kinds of friviolous reasons why he just can't trust Jesus anymore, is actually quite innovatively accurate. People planning to do extremely wicked things ((like have your best friend AND Lord ARRESTED)) will often create a million excuses in their minds to justify what they are about to deliberately do.
In this respect, JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR is brilliant, because that is exactly what they show Judas doing, right from the beginning of the show, with the song
HEAVEN ON THEIR MINDS.

I wish Belarus hadn't banned this musical, but at the same time, I can understand why a country that did not go thru, as the west did, the social upheavals and changes of the
1960s and early 70s, would not be able to grasp, nor relate to, and even be offended by, this musical. There are things about it that I myself would definitely change.
But on the whole, the show is magnificent, even if a bit dated.