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  #1  
Old Mar 3, '12, 7:51 pm
joclucsylv joclucsylv is offline
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Default If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

If the HHS mandate on the Catholic church isn't overturned, will the church shut down their Catholic hospitals and Universities?? Do you think they will end up by covering contraception for employees??
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  #2  
Old Mar 3, '12, 8:30 pm
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Thaelros Thaelros is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

Most likely, the catholic healthcare institutions will be closed, which will result with the nation losing 15% of its hospitals (I believe).
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  #3  
Old Mar 3, '12, 8:38 pm
Catholic1954 Catholic1954 is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

The bishops will do what they have to do to not comply with the mandate, if that means closing schools and hospitals, paying fines or going to jail, they will do it. Hopefully, it will all be resolved by next year before anything like that happens.
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  #4  
Old Mar 3, '12, 8:51 pm
Marchmain1987 Marchmain1987 is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

I do not think it is the end of the world.

Wouldn’t the majority of those hospitals still operate without being Catholic institutions?

Don’t the majority of mainstream Catholic Colleges and Universities already offer plans that include contraceptives to their employees?

I am no fan of President Obama (or the mandate itself – it reeks of election year politics) but he is not playing the role of Henry VIII. He is merely playing to his base in an election year. Just as every modern President of the United States has done.

After the election, a "magical" compromise will appear.

And if I hear the line “98% of Catholics admit to using contraceptives” I will scream!
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  #5  
Old Mar 3, '12, 8:59 pm
Jaypeeto4 Jaypeeto4 is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

What will the CHURCH do?
I don't know about the CHURCH, but I'll tell you what I am GOING TO DO.

I am going to start praying VERY SERIOUS IMPRECATORY prayers
AGAINST those apostate, treasonous "CATHOLIC" politicians who supported this
evil, Spirit-blaspheming Mandate, and imprecatory prayers against those who
keep re-electing these Traitors Against Jesus Christ and His Church.

Seriously, strong Imprecatory Prayers.
And before anyone chimes in and says such prayers are wrong,
THEY ARE NOT. The Lord's people have ALWAYS prayed imprecatory prayerrs
against wicked people who act treasonously against the Lord and against his people
the Church (whether Israel or the Catholic Church). Even in the NEW TESTAMENT
Book of Revelations, the HOLY (Christian) martyrs's souls, under the altar,
plead with Jesus (these are Christians, remember), saying,
HOW LONG O LORD, BEFORE YOU AVENGE OUR BLOOD ON OUR ENEMIES???
These are holy martyred saints in heaven praying for vengeance on those wicked people who martyred them.
So yes, imprecatory prayers are perfectly legitimate, even in the Christian age.
In fact, apostate christians who act against the Church and it's interests,
are FAR, FAR, FAR more guilty and wicked than the ignorant ancient Pagans who
had the early Christians martyred. FAR more guilty.
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  #6  
Old Mar 3, '12, 9:07 pm
mdgspencer mdgspencer is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

I expect that many Catholic institutions will close. This includes Catholic hospitals, charitable institutions like Catholic charities, and Catholic schools. This mandate does not only require that Catholics pay for contraceptives, but also for sterilizations and abortion-producing drugs. But some Catholic institutions are run by people not loyal to the Church, and then may simply go along with the mandate without so much as defending their action to the public. There have been Catholic hospitals in the news which have been involved in steriliztions and abortions. However, it will be hard for any that do this to hide what they are doing, which could lead to battles of these institutions with the bishop of their place and with the Catholic public at large. But the end result in any event could well be that either Catholic institutions will close or distance themselves further from the Church, and, perhaps, also becoming lost to Catholics in this way.
I expect though that there is a good chance Obama will lose the election and then this mandate will go away. The idea is being promoted in some media that he will probably win, but this ignores the polls that show his unpopularity.
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  #7  
Old Mar 3, '12, 9:08 pm
achmafooma achmafooma is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joclucsylv View Post
If the HHS mandate on the Catholic church isn't overturned, will the church shut down their Catholic hospitals and Universities?? Do you think they will end up by covering contraception for employees??
The Supreme Court will be ruling on the whole health care reform law this summer, and there's a good chance it will be overturned (in whole or in part) anyway before it comes to drastic measures. But in the end, the Church simply won't violate its conscience. The institutions in question will either be sold to non-Church organizations, or be shut down, or the Church will just stop covering employee health care (perhaps offering a cash voucher to employees instead) and eat the fines for noncompliance.

But before that, I assume the Church will fight the contraceptive/sterilization/abortion mandate tooth and nail in the courts, as she should, and there's a good chance she'll win before it comes to shutting down hospitals.

I am cautiously optimistic that this will all blow over. The Supreme Court recently ruled unanimously (!!) in favor of religious liberty trumping other employment laws; I don't see why religious liberty wouldn't trump this one. But having said that, the Supreme Court has been depressingly hit-and-miss on basic Bill of Rights issues. The unanimous religious liberty ruling was quite out-of-the-ordinary. Free political speech (Citizens United) was only upheld by a narrow 5-4 ruling, as were our 2nd Amendment rights (Heller & McDonald). But the court went anti-liberty with regard to property rights (also 5-4) in Kelo.

Not sure why 4 (or 5) highly educated Supreme Court justices seem perennially incapable of comprehending the plain text of the Bill of Rights...but that's where we are nowadays.
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  #8  
Old Mar 3, '12, 9:19 pm
mdgspencer mdgspencer is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

Unfortunately, this is not only a threat to Catholic healthcare institutions, though that is bad enough. What of Catholic grade schools and charitable organizations like Catholic Charities and Food for the Poor? What of organizations like EWTN and the Knights of Columbus, which I presume offers health insurance. And more than this, what of small and larger business run by Catholics? They also will have to pay for contraception, sterilizations and abortion-producing drugs, or pay fines that could bankrupt them.
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  #9  
Old Mar 3, '12, 9:34 pm
Pamm Pamm is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

I believe the Bishops and the Church in general has politicized this issue as much as the politicians have. When the president showed willingness to accept that all religious-based organizations (anyone with a tax exemption for this purpose) may opt out of this mandate, all of a sudden the Bishops and the Church broadened this issue and suggested it should apply to ALL employers, insurance plans, etc.

I have three problems with the Bishops movement into the political arena --

1) This is a public relations campaign put in place to try and persuade the millions of Catholics to change their acceptance of birth control. Since I do not know a single Catholic (and nearly all my friends and colleages are Catholic) who can say they do not now or never have used artificial contraception, then I think this is going to be a miserable failure for the Bishops. Worst case scenario, there will be more non-practicing Catholics and/or an exodus from an already struggling faith community.

2) This is one more way for Church leadership to assault personal freedoms of Americans by expecting government to impose what the Bishops can't and haven't been able to accomplish -- even with their own flock.

3) After thousands of years of being second class citizens, women's futures are at risk because a group of males who have never had a child, never been forced into a second class status and never suffered the health issues females deal with every day, want to deny us the right to follow our own conscious. If Jesus allows us to choose, then why do the Bishops not follow his lead?

You can attack me if you wish here -- sadly the most conservative among Catholics think it is their jobs to judge the rest of us and to tell us how to think and what to do as if we do not have the ability to discern this for ourselves. I love my faith. I believe in all things that I know are fundamental truths of the Church. However, nowhere does the Bible say we can't use artificial forms of birth control. So many of the controversial stands by the Church have changed many times over the Church's history -- one should understand why some of us are confused about knowing when something is truth and when it is fallable. I do believe that the Pope has the authority and infallability on issues of faith. I just don't believe whether or not a person uses contraceptives is a matter of faith.

These are painful times in our beloved Church. So much division and so much politicizing of our faith. I am very sad about it all.
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  #10  
Old Mar 3, '12, 11:13 pm
DRIVING BEAR DRIVING BEAR is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamm View Post
I believe the Bishops and the Church in general has politicized this issue as much as the politicians have. When the president showed willingness to accept that all religious-based organizations (anyone with a tax exemption for this purpose) may opt out of this mandate, all of a sudden the Bishops and the Church broadened this issue and suggested it should apply to ALL employers, insurance plans, etc.

I have three problems with the Bishops movement into the political arena --

1) This is a public relations campaign put in place to try and persuade the millions of Catholics to change their acceptance of birth control. Since I do not know a single Catholic (and nearly all my friends and colleages are Catholic) who can say they do not now or never have used artificial contraception, then I think this is going to be a miserable failure for the Bishops. Worst case scenario, there will be more non-practicing Catholics and/or an exodus from an already struggling faith community.

2) This is one more way for Church leadership to assault personal freedoms of Americans by expecting government to impose what the Bishops can't and haven't been able to accomplish -- even with their own flock.

3) After thousands of years of being second class citizens, women's futures are at risk because a group of males who have never had a child, never been forced into a second class status and never suffered the health issues females deal with every day, want to deny us the right to follow our own conscious. If Jesus allows us to choose, then why do the Bishops not follow his lead?

You can attack me if you wish here -- sadly the most conservative among Catholics think it is their jobs to judge the rest of us and to tell us how to think and what to do as if we do not have the ability to discern this for ourselves. I love my faith. I believe in all things that I know are fundamental truths of the Church. However, nowhere does the Bible say we can't use artificial forms of birth control. So many of the controversial stands by the Church have changed many times over the Church's history -- one should understand why some of us are confused about knowing when something is truth and when it is fallable. I do believe that the Pope has the authority and infallability on issues of faith. I just don't believe whether or not a person uses contraceptives is a matter of faith.

These are painful times in our beloved Church. So much division and so much politicizing of our faith. I am very sad about it all.
First off PAMM the catholic church is NOT repeat NOT denying women the right to contraception. The are saying the will not pay for it. Just because an employer does not pay for something in no way denies anyone the right to it.

Second PAMM you and President Obama want to DENY the catholic church it's right to follow its conscience and not pay for birth control.

Third I reject President Obama claim that catholic universities and hospitals are just "religious affiliated institutions". As far as I am concerned they are as much a part of the catholic church as the Vatican

Forth this policy will only end up hurting women in that there is an easy way for the church to get around this. They can Simply stop hiring women and the ones currently on staff can have their hours cut so they are part time employee and therefore receive no health benefits
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  #11  
Old Mar 4, '12, 3:33 am
joclucsylv joclucsylv is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaelros View Post
Most likely, the catholic healthcare institutions will be closed, which will result with the nation losing 15% of its hospitals (I believe).
One has to wonder if closing of CC hospitals and schools isn't the ulterior motive of the Obama administration. Perhaps they want less presence of the Church in the US.

I got into a heated argument with a friend over the HHS mandate last night with a friend who is Catholic. She used all the points liberals are using. What costs more...contraception or a baby? Name me one woman who hasn't used contraception? Argh!!
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  #12  
Old Mar 4, '12, 7:32 am
Lacour Lacour is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

What I think would be interesting (though unlikely) is for Catholic organizations to only treat/help/employ Catholics and argue that they are doing so to strengthen mad spread the faith. Doing so, I believe would meet the requirements for the exception and allow those institutions to stay open (though on a smaller scale).
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  #13  
Old Mar 4, '12, 7:49 am
BRZ BRZ is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamm View Post
I believe the Bishops and the Church in general has politicized this issue as much as the politicians have. When the president showed willingness to accept that all religious-based organizations (anyone with a tax exemption for this purpose) may opt out of this mandate, all of a sudden the Bishops and the Church broadened this issue and suggested it should apply to ALL employers, insurance plans, etc.

I have three problems with the Bishops movement into the political arena --

1) This is a public relations campaign put in place to try and persuade the millions of Catholics to change their acceptance of birth control. Since I do not know a single Catholic (and nearly all my friends and colleages are Catholic) who can say they do not now or never have used artificial contraception, then I think this is going to be a miserable failure for the Bishops. Worst case scenario, there will be more non-practicing Catholics and/or an exodus from an already struggling faith community.

2) This is one more way for Church leadership to assault personal freedoms of Americans by expecting government to impose what the Bishops can't and haven't been able to accomplish -- even with their own flock.

3) After thousands of years of being second class citizens, women's futures are at risk because a group of males who have never had a child, never been forced into a second class status and never suffered the health issues females deal with every day, want to deny us the right to follow our own conscious. If Jesus allows us to choose, then why do the Bishops not follow his lead?

You can attack me if you wish here -- sadly the most conservative among Catholics think it is their jobs to judge the rest of us and to tell us how to think and what to do as if we do not have the ability to discern this for ourselves. I love my faith. I believe in all things that I know are fundamental truths of the Church. However, nowhere does the Bible say we can't use artificial forms of birth control. So many of the controversial stands by the Church have changed many times over the Church's history -- one should understand why some of us are confused about knowing when something is truth and when it is fallable. I do believe that the Pope has the authority and infallability on issues of faith. I just don't believe whether or not a person uses contraceptives is a matter of faith.

These are painful times in our beloved Church. So much division and so much politicizing of our faith. I am very sad about it all.
This is an utterly disgusting post. You are in direct opposition to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church and are being apostate. If you think that is judging than you have no idea what it means when Jesus tells us not to judge. He tells us not to judge the salvation of an individual, he does not mean we should not judge actions to be wrong or right. If you can't understand this simple principle perhaps you should discuss with your priest and try to open up your mind to the truth.

Contraception is wrong in every way, if you don't know why, there are many books written on this. You and your friends are comitting a grave sin and should not be partaking of the Eucharist if you believe as you do and just because you and your friends use contraception does not mean anything, it just goes to show you that you have the wrong group of friends. It doesn't even matter how many Catholics are sinning, the bible makes it very clear that "The way is narrow and difficult that leads to heaven" (paraphrasing here).

It is because of people like you that the Church is in the trouble it is in currently. If the 70 plus million Catholics in the U.S. actually stood up for their religion and Catholic tradition we wouldn't have any issues but entire generations have lost their morality due to their closed hearts and minds filling themselves with the darkness of sin rather than the light of the world. Remember that Jesus died for your sins and everytime you continue to sin you are spitting in his face, he is your God. Show some respect. I know that there is no way we can ever eliminate sin in all of us but at least try to support the Church in these issues that are brought to the forefront. Being apostate and expressing your apostate views in public makes it even worse. Remember that we are each responsible not only for the damning of our own souls but for the damning of others as well.
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  #14  
Old Mar 4, '12, 10:06 am
Jaypeeto4 Jaypeeto4 is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

This is an utterly disgusting post. You are in direct opposition to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church and are being apostate. If you think that is judging than you have no idea what it means when Jesus tells us not to judge. He tells us not to judge the salvation of an individual, he does not mean we should not judge actions to be wrong or right. If you can't understand this simple principle perhaps you should discuss with your priest and try to open up your mind to the truth.

Contraception is wrong in every way, if you don't know why, there are many books written on this. You and your friends are comitting a grave sin and should not be partaking of the Eucharist if you believe as you do and just because you and your friends use contraception does not mean anything, it just goes to show you that you have the wrong group of friends. It doesn't even matter how many Catholics are sinning, the bible makes it very clear that "The way is narrow and difficult that leads to heaven" (paraphrasing here).

It is because of people like you that the Church is in the trouble it is in currently. If the 70 plus million Catholics in the U.S. actually stood up for their religion and Catholic tradition we wouldn't have any issues but entire generations have lost their morality due to their closed hearts and minds filling themselves with the darkness of sin rather than the light of the world. Remember that Jesus died for your sins and everytime you continue to sin you are spitting in his face, he is your God. Show some respect. I know that there is no way we can ever eliminate sin in all of us but at least try to support the Church in these issues that are brought to the forefront. Being apostate and expressing your apostate views in public makes it even worse. Remember that we are each responsible not only for the damning of our own souls but for the damning of others as well.


THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, for the above reply to that typically-nauseating dissenting post. And THANK YOU for using the correct word, APOSTATE,
instead of "liberal" to describe Catholics who are in open dissent. No statement in the Bible about artificial contraception. No Catholic would make a statement like that.
WE KNOW that ***all*** Christian truth is NOT contained, in direct statements, in the Bible. The condemnation of all artificial contraception by the Catholic Church is 2000 years old, not some new phenomenon. IT is a teaching of the HOLY SPIRIT, whom the apostates (who like to use the euphemism "liberals" instead) are tantamount
to BLASPHEMING.
Not only that, but she brought out those valueless, vapid remarks about a male hierarchy who has never had children, yada yada yada yada yada, as if to know the truth you have to have the ability to get pregnant. What hogwash. What deceit.
Whether the apostates like it or not, Christ instituted a male-only priesthood.
He, who was quite "unconventional" in many ways, could easily have ordained many of his faithful female followers. He DIDN'T, and UNLIKE today's apostates, THOSE HOLY Women did NOT Whine, Gripe, Complain and Blaspheme about it, either.
That's the difference between HOLY people and the APOSTATES. HOLY people, like Mary and Mary Magdalene and Agatha and Teresa Benedicta of the Cross and Saint Gertrude and the millions of other truly holy women (who make these feminism-spouting modernists look like moral and spiritual DILETTANTES) ACCEPT God's will as He has revealed it for 2000 years and obey. Priesthood and ordination are NOT, NOT, NOT "RIGHTS". NO ONE, MALE OR FEMALE, has a "RIGHT" to be an ordained Priest. It is a calling, from God, given in an orderly fashion, as He has always given it, through Israel and later THROUGH the CHURCH, and He has ONLY given THAT particular calling to MALES. I don't know why, that's HIS decision, and NOBODY has the right to criticize or contravene it, under penalty of the DEADLY SIN of REBELLION Against the Holy Spirit. These modernists had better shape up, FAST, or they may find themselves, suddenly and unexpectedly, through an "unprovided for" divine removal from this Earth,
suddenly in the presence of the Lord as their JUDGE instead of what he wants to be,
namely, their SAVIOR.
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  #15  
Old Mar 4, '12, 11:23 am
Castello Castello is offline
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Default Re: If the HHS mandate on contraception isn't overturned, what will the Catholic church do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamm View Post
I believe the Bishops and the Church in general has politicized this issue as much as the politicians have. When the president showed willingness to accept that all religious-based organizations (anyone with a tax exemption for this purpose) may opt out of this mandate, all of a sudden the Bishops and the Church broadened this issue and suggested it should apply to ALL employers, insurance plans, etc.

I have three problems with the Bishops movement into the political arena --

1) This is a public relations campaign put in place to try and persuade the millions of Catholics to change their acceptance of birth control. Since I do not know a single Catholic (and nearly all my friends and colleages are Catholic) who can say they do not now or never have used artificial contraception, then I think this is going to be a miserable failure for the Bishops. Worst case scenario, there will be more non-practicing Catholics and/or an exodus from an already struggling faith community.

2) This is one more way for Church leadership to assault personal freedoms of Americans by expecting government to impose what the Bishops can't and haven't been able to accomplish -- even with their own flock.

3) After thousands of years of being second class citizens, women's futures are at risk because a group of males who have never had a child, never been forced into a second class status and never suffered the health issues females deal with every day, want to deny us the right to follow our own conscious. If Jesus allows us to choose, then why do the Bishops not follow his lead?

You can attack me if you wish here -- sadly the most conservative among Catholics think it is their jobs to judge the rest of us and to tell us how to think and what to do as if we do not have the ability to discern this for ourselves. I love my faith. I believe in all things that I know are fundamental truths of the Church. However, nowhere does the Bible say we can't use artificial forms of birth control. So many of the controversial stands by the Church have changed many times over the Church's history -- one should understand why some of us are confused about knowing when something is truth and when it is fallable. I do believe that the Pope has the authority and infallability on issues of faith. I just don't believe whether or not a person uses contraceptives is a matter of faith.

These are painful times in our beloved Church. So much division and so much politicizing of our faith. I am very sad about it all.
I will pray for you that your heart is softened and that you return to the Faith with your whole heart.
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