Mormonism - Page 2

LivingWaters7 · #16 Mar 7, '12, 4:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anniejoe

Either way, Latter-day Saints don't really agree with those that seek/sought to reform Christianity. Instead, we believe that our Church is a restoration of the Church established by Jesus Christ anciently.

LivingWaters7,

I'm very confused by your statement. If the LDS don't seek to reform Christianity, what is it your sect believes needs restoring?

I was making a distinction between "reformation" and "restoration". Latter-day Saints do not believe that our Church was established after someone wanted to reform allegedly incorrect beliefs by reading the Bible or other methods. Instead, we believe that God, through revelation, restored His Church and various beliefs, practices, and priesthood.

Quote:

The Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus, the incarnate God.

I understand that that is your belief.

Quote:

You don't worship the same God as Christians.

For a Latter-day Saint, it would be more precise to say that we do not believe in the traditional definitions ascribed to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, i.e., we reject the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. We further believe that we are Christians, in that we believe in Jesus Christ as our divine Savior, and that it is only through His atoning sacrifice that we can receive eternal life. Many Latter-day Saints make a distinction between "traditional Christians" (i.e. those holding to the Trinity and/or the definitions of the ancient Creeds and Ecumenical Councils), and us. I believe that I am a Christian, just not a traditional or Nicene one if you will.

Quote:

How do you propose to restore a faith you don't even believe in?

This is a somewhat odd question, but I think it is because you are asking it from your own view that the Catholic faith is the original, unchanged faith of the New Testament Church, which is understandable. Latter-day Saints do not share that view (and I understand that various traditional Christian churches also do not share that view), which is why we believe that God restored various beliefs and practices that were lost anciently, as well as providing continuing revelation to provide further light and knowledge about His Gospel.

Luvtosew · #17 Mar 7, '12, 4:26 pm

Living Waters ,

Just curious what is the Mormon view on salvation and what about confession of sins?

Anniejoe · #18 Mar 7, '12, 4:28 pm

I believe that I am a Christian, just not a traditional or Nicene one if you will.

LivingWaters7,

I understand that is your belief, or you say it is, at least. But words mean things, even in this strange modern world. A Christian is one who believes that God chose to incarnate Himself in the man Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity. The One God in Three Persons affirmed by the Nicene Creed is the God of Christians. That's what "Christian" means: you accept this belief of God as He revealed Himself in His Scriptures. If you worship a different definition of deity, that's up to you. But Christians, by definition, are Trinitarians. Non-trinitarians, are by definition, not Christians. You can appropriate the term, but that doesn't make it so.

I've always thought that most Mormons make lovely neighbors and co-workers. They are not Christians, which is sad for them. We all need to pray for all sincere seekers who groping their way to the true God.

TexanKnight · #19 Mar 7, '12, 4:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvtosew

Living Waters ,

Just curious what is the Mormon view on salvation and what about confession of sins?

The worst part of LDS salvation is that it costs money.

You cannot get to the LDS highest level of heaven without going to the temple. You cannot go to the temple unless you pay tithing.

It is like paying money to go to heaven.

Anniejoe · #20 Mar 7, '12, 4:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanKnight

The worst part of LDS salvation is that it costs money.

You cannot get to the LDS highest level of heaven without going to the temple. You cannot go to the temple unless you pay tithing.

It is like paying money to go to heaven.

More like paying money to not go to Heaven.

LivingWaters7 · #21 Mar 7, '12, 4:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvtosew

Living Waters ,

Just curious what is the Mormon view on salvation and what about confession of sins?

Sure. Latter-day Saints typically speak of "salvation" and "eternal life" separately, and eternal life is also know as "exaltation". By "salvation", we typically mean being saved from physical death. Latter-day Saints believe that through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, all are saved from physical death (i.e., all will be resurrected). However, our Father in Heaven desires more than that for us. He desires that we return to His presence, live with Him for eternity, and become like Him, sharing in His life as joint-heirs with Christ. This belief is sometimes known as deification or theosis (becoming 'gods'). While certain traditional Christian groups have that belief, our belief (which we call exaltation/eternal life) is different in a few senses.

To receive the gift of eternal life, Latter-day Saints believe that one must first have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins, be baptized by proper priesthood authority (because LDS believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the "one true Church", we believe that only it has the priesthood of God, and therefore the power and authority to baptize and perform other sacred ordinances), receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. Other sacred ordinances that we believe are essential to receiving eternal life are receiving the holy priesthood of God (for males), being endowed with power from on high (aka the "endowment"), and being eternally married to one's spouse (we believe that neither the man is without the woman, nor the woman without the man in the Lord). The last two sacred ordinances are performed in temples, which we believe are houses of the Lord (I went today and I love going there). So, we believe that if one has faith in Christ, they will follow His commandments (and of course we believe that some of these commandments the Lord has given in these latter-days through continuing revelation), and receive eternal life.

On confession of sins, Latter-day Saints believe that one must always repent. In general, we can confess our sins directly to God, however certain serious sins should be confessed to one's local leader, known as a bishop, who can help that person in the repentance process. Because we consider our ordinances (what some call "sacraments") to be sacred, and include covenants that we enter into with God, reflection and repentance should always be done before participating, so that we do not participate unworthily.

Hope that helps.

Anniejoe · #22 Mar 7, '12, 4:44 pm

Latter-day Saints believe that one must first have faith in Jesus Christ

Does this mean merely having faith he existed? Or does it mean believing that he is who he said he is? One can believe in Jesus without taking him at his word and believing what he taught about himself. In what sense do LDS "have faith" in Jesus?

TexanKnight · #23 Mar 7, '12, 4:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anniejoe

Latter-day Saints believe that one must first have faith in Jesus Christ

Does this mean merely having faith he existed? Or does it mean believing that he is who he said he is? One can believe in Jesus without taking him at his word and believing what he taught about himself. In what sense do LDS "have faith" in Jesus?

The danger of Mormonism is that they use the same names and words we do, but with different meanings.

For example, we say God. We mean the One True God. The ONLY God. For them, god was once a sinful man and is one of many gods. They even had a prophet who taught Adam was our god.

When we say Jesus. We mean part of the Trinity. The Son. Conceived by the Holy Spirit.

When they say Jesus, they mean not part of the Trinity. And he was conceived when God had relations with Mary.

Same words and names, but different meanings

RebeccaJ · #24 Mar 7, '12, 4:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper Fi

I believe that there are many things and I do believe in our religion, but I was wondering what you all thought of the Mormon religion. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

It is what it is, but it isn't truth.

LivingWaters7 · #25 Mar 7, '12, 4:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anniejoe

I believe that I am a Christian, just not a traditional or Nicene one if you will.

LivingWaters7,

I understand that is your belief, or you say it is, at least. But words mean things, even in this strange modern world. A Christian is one who believes that God chose to incarnate Himself in the man Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity. The One God in Three Persons affirmed by the Nicene Creed is the God of Christians.

Latter-day Saints believe that the Second Person of the Godhead (what we call the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost together) did incarnate in the man Jesus Christ. As far as the Nicene Creed, the definitions provided by the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed were of course not held to by many if not most of the early Christians, hence the need for the councils (and also interestingly, Arians, who are not Trinitarian, were not re-baptized, from my understanding, hence they apparently had valid Christian baptisms, from that point of view).

Quote:

That's what "Christian" means: you accept this belief of God as He revealed Himself in His Scriptures.

Latter-day Saints accept the belief of God as He revealed Himself in His Scriptures.

Quote:

If you worship a different definition of deity, that's up to you. But Christians, by definition, are Trinitarians. Non-trinitarians, are by definition, not Christians. You can appropriate the term, but that doesn't make it so.

See above.

Quote:

I've always thought that most Mormons make lovely neighbors and co-workers. They are not Christians, which is sad for them. We all need to pray for all sincere seekers who groping their way to the true God.

I think we should always pray for each other, thank you.

Anniejoe · #26 Mar 7, '12, 4:58 pm

As far as the Nicene Creed, the definitions provided by the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed were of course not held to by many if not most of the early Christians,

Indeed? What is your source for this piece of information?

LivingWaters7 · #27 Mar 7, '12, 4:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anniejoe

Latter-day Saints believe that one must first have faith in Jesus Christ

Does this mean merely having faith he existed? Or does it mean believing that he is who he said he is? One can believe in Jesus without taking him at his word and believing what he taught about himself. In what sense do LDS "have faith" in Jesus?

No, it doesn't mean that we just believe that He existed. It means that we accept who He said He was, that He is our divine Lord and Savior, and knowing that He died for our sins, and that through His atonement, we can be forgiven of our sins and receive eternal life. Having faith in Christ means that we follow His commandments and become His disciples.

batman1973 · #28 Mar 7, '12, 4:59 pm

A false religion founded by a man, who as a boy who was deceived by and angel of light. He invented the perfect way to get what ever he wanted. Money, power, women, Joe had it all. Unfortunaly, his phony faith didnt die with him, because he had a person just a sick as he was (Brigham Young) take over. All we can do is pray for these lost souls, and hope that they will come to the truth.

RebeccaJ · #29 Mar 7, '12, 4:59 pm

Words are important, and Mormons use words that sound Christian but have been given a different definition. Jesus Christ is God, who incarnated as Man. This does not compare to LDS belief of a Jesus, at all. Using the same word, incarnate, does not make Mormonsim a Christian religion. It is a parallel construct, similar to Arianism in nature, and belief in regards to the divine nature of Jesus Christ. Gnostic similarities as well with beliefs of secret knowledge and that knowledge having salvic properties.

LDS will couch their beliefs to non-Mormons in Christian terms, without going into details, especially around non-Mormons who have shown up for their Sunday services.

Don't be deceived. Their only interest is to replace Christianty.

Anniejoe · #30 Mar 7, '12, 5:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaJ

Words are important, and Mormons use words that sound Christian but have been given a different definition. Jesus Christ is God, who incarnated as Man. This does not compare to LDS belief of a Jesus, at all. Using the same word, incarnate, does not make Mormonsim a Christian religion. It is a parallel construct, similar to Arianism in nature, and belief in regards to the divine nature of Jesus Christ. Gnostic similarities as well with beliefs of secret knowledge and that knowledge having saving properties.

Exactly right, RebeccaJ. I grew up with a father raised in a similar Arian-revivial cult, the JWs. There are great similarities in the two sects. I'm used to the double-speak that is designed to sound "Christian" when it is really just the same old heresy dressed up to deceive the unwary. Most of these folks are deeply deluded and need our prayers that God will lead them to the truth.