Time to Ban My Son's Friend?

KrisC · #1 Mar 12, '12, 8:37 pm

Well, I know the answer, and it is "Yes."

But I felt compelled to come here and ask because it is a tough situation.

My son is in the 6th grade. He met this boy in kindergarten and has considered him his best friends ever since. It was almost exclusively an in-school relationship.

In the 4th grade, this friend got the freedom to ride his bike around town so he started showing up at our house. My son would go out and play with him. I overheard him say a few innappropriate things and corrected him. In school meetings, the principal once referred to him as a "wild man." He did seem polite and kind, though. I was told by school teachers that they had a good friendship .

In the 5th grade, Sept. of 2010, we started homeschooling. I hoped this friend would slowly vanish but it did not happen. This year their friendship has intensified.

Here are the problems we've seen over the years:

-- The boy not liking someone at school and bullying that child, and my son getting sucked into the action (that was back in 2008/9).

-- The boy talking about sex and using all manner of foul language. (This child has a tv and computer in his bedroom, Ipod touch, total internet access.)

Most recently, the boy

- hits or whips things at other kids "in fun," (this just happened today, my younger son went outside with them and he whipped a tennis ball at his rib cage.)

-- is mean to a boy they call their friend (my son's been a part of this trio)

-- goes on a swearing rampage at my son when he can't "hang out." (this has happned at least four times in the past few months as I try to distance them, most recently last tuesday).

We have tried with this kid. I brought him to vacation bible school with my boy last summer, and we let him come to a youth group event this fall. But my husband said at the latter he was rude and disrespectful and we should never invite him again. We've also tried just having him at our house. My husband will take them out to play ball or something and he said this boy always plays unfairly and my husband ALWAYS has to speak with him. When he comes over here, I can barely keep up with them, they run upstairs and downstairs and outside and want to go to the park across the street. I have two younger children and I just can't chase them around. The boy's a sneak, and he's manipulative. He's always whispering and I know enough about him at this point to know WHY he's whispering.

So. I'm at the point where I just want the friendship to be over. I said as much to my son tonight after the tennis ball incident. The boys text on my cell phone, and I got a text from him tonight saying "Did your brother tell on me?" So I know my younger son's story (about the tennis ball) was true. And of course, MY son lied to me and defended his friend (instead of his brother!).

Anyway, I don't know how to make this easier for my son and the boy. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to let the kid down easy. I do feel bad. I can't just limit it to school. I'm basically telling him he can never see this kid again. I know it's right but it feels terrible for some reason.

Does anyway have any advice? I'm open for anything here!!

Thank you!
Kris

TheRealJuliane · #2 Mar 12, '12, 9:49 pm

I think, from what you say, that it's time to sit down with your son and explain your concern about his friend. Lay out all of the things you have concerns about, things you see that you don't like, especially the bad influence he seems to have over your son. Let your son express his viewpoint, but keep stressing that this boy is adding nothing positive to your family and is, in fact, affecting all of you in a negative way. The trust issue is huge - to think that your son is being encouraged to lie to you to protect his friend is very bad.

It may cause problems though. Depending on how your son responds, and how you handle the break-up, things could go reasonably well, or not so well.

One thing I would encourage you to do as soon as possible is to get your son involved in other activities that this boy does not or cannot participate in. Classes, clubs, sports, whatever will keep your son out of his orbit and BUSY, so he can't just "hang out" and so he is around other new friends who are more wholesome.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Sherry G · #3 Mar 12, '12, 9:58 pm

This is a big problem. YOu did not mention anything about this boys family. Does he have a father and mother and any siblings at his home? He sounds like he has lots of emotional problems. I don't know if your husband would be willing to speak directly with the boy or with the boy and his parents, and clearly state that the boundaries have been breached and unacceptable behavior can no longer be tolerated. Give examples of the behavior, the language issue, the sneaking and disrespect for others. Ask the boy if he thinks that there is any hope that he might think about changing his behavior. Put the burden of losing the friendship squarely on his shoulders and make it clear that his own actions are the cause of the severance. If the boy has continued to pursue the friendship of your son all these years, this conversation will at least give him a final chance to recognize that the future is in his hands here. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family as you deal with this tough issue.

George Stegmeir · #4 Mar 12, '12, 9:59 pm

Have you had a serious talk with the boys parents? I would suggest that before banning him. Remember, telling little boys not to do something at your son's age often times just makes it more attractive to them. However, if the other boy curses you, or shows other signs of disrespect, tell him he is no longer welcome in your house and definately see his parent(s) and tell them if he continues that kind of behavior around your boy, you will take up the matter with the authorities.
Never forget that 6th graders, especially if they go to public instead of parochial school can be real brats! I know, I raised three boys.

SteveGC · #5 Mar 12, '12, 10:04 pm

Much depends on how impressionable your son is with regard to the foul behavior, and conversely, how influential he can be to others with regard to proper behavior. In other words, if he is not so much the former, and quite adept at the latter, then there may be some benefit in allowing the friendship to remain.

Of course, from your story, this does not seem to be the case. In fact, perhaps the opposite is true, and so you do have a dilemma. You have a duty to ensure your children remain morally and spiritually grounded - as you likely already know. To that extent, it is obviously reasonable for you to significantly limit what your child is exposed to, yes? Well, other people (including their "friends") are included in that collective group of things to limit, or cut off completely. Very difficult to deny friendships, of course. There are strong emotional ties, and peer pressure, etc. Not an easy task. I concur with Juliane's comments above, and....

I noticed you did not mention anything in your post about speaking to the other boy's parents. Can you elaborate on that effort, if any? I can tell you that my immediate reaction to your story was "and what about the kid's parents?"

Abba · #6 Mar 12, '12, 10:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisC

In the 5th grade, Sept. of 2010, we started homeschooling. I hoped this friend would slowly vanish but it did not happen. This year their friendship has intensified.

Why did you hope the friendship would slowly vanish? Are there other things that bother you that you have not mentioned? Up to this point there doesn't seem to have been a problem.

Personally, I recommend that you respect your son's autonomy. If this situation is mishandled it could be the foundation for resentment and bigger problems down the road. Friendships at this age and later are very important to children and we need to respect that and not abuse our authority.This is a given.

I just hear of a kid being described here who lives in the real world. I do not know the child, I do not know you nor your son, but from what I am reading the behaviour of the kid does not sound so detrimental. It is the behaviour of a child living in modern day society with the gaming. My children have swore a few times and I have let them know that it is unacceptable - no matter how old they get etc... The situation is that the other children they play video games with swear. What am I suppose to do? Tell them all that they cannot come to MY HOUSE nor call nor have any contact with my son?

No.

If I were really concern, respecting my son as I do, I would speak with my son. let him know what my concerns are and hear him out and I mean listen to him. He may agree or he may not. He may explain a misunderstanding I may have.

Taking a best friend away forcefully can cripple the natural development of a child.

Maybe, you can let you son know that you do not accept swearing in the house and that you expect his friends to respect the home. I have done this and it has worked. Although, some times when they have sleep overs I do hear some swear words. My son's friends really try to respect my rules because - I respect them too. They are children that live in the world not little angels that came down from heaven. We need to correct them and guide them.

I better go..hope this helps.

stephe1987 · #7 Mar 12, '12, 10:38 pm

I would try to talk to the boy's parents, but it sounds like he doesn't have any; he is allowed to do whatever he wants, watch what he wants, go on whatever websites he wants. There are people who live in the house with him and pay the bills, but that is about it. Unfortunately, this is all too common with the current generation of kids, whose parents believe they would be infringing on their child's "rights" if they were to block any sites/channels/etc. But I would still try to talk to them anyway.

I also like the idea of putting the friendship on the boy's shoulders. Tell him under no uncertain terms that this is his last chance, what the rules are, and that if he breaks them the friendship between him and your son is over.

Monicad · #8 Mar 13, '12, 5:31 am

Please be assured of my prayers, this situation sounds frustrating as well as heartbreaking!

First of all, I would encourage you not to make any final or forever decisions. In other words I would tell my son he cannot play with this boy for a while, perhaps a few months or longer but I would not say that he can never play ever again. This leaves the option open that if this boy ever changes his ways, even if it's a few years from now that he can have contact with your children. That may never happen but I think you will have less "backlash" from your son then if you permanently ban this friend from his life.

Does your son have other friends? Is this his primary and closest friend? How does your son feel about him? This is an excellent opportunity to ask your son how he feels about him and if he recognizes his friends bad habits. You will do your son a great favor if you involve him somewhat in this process, you will guide him into thinking for himself and into making good choices in friendships. If he wants to play with this friend you could ask "Do you think that is a good idea? Do you remember what happened last time? What do you think?" You may not get the answers you are seeking right away but try and guide your son to make these choices in friendships on his own it is a valuable tool in life!

Again I would resist telling your son he can never see this boy again because the finality of it all will probably be very painful for your son. Cut off contact for several months if you need to and keep your son busy with other activities. Do what you can to encourage other friendships. Gradually this boy will stop calling although it will take a while. This approach will be harder and more frustrating for you but will be easier for your son in my opinion. Hope this helps a little, God bless.

KrisC · #9 Mar 13, '12, 7:29 am

Thanks so much, everyone.

I just want to clarify a few things:

-- we hoped the friendship would fade because 1) My son was obsessed with this kid and talked about him and him only, constantly. It seemed almost from the get go but moreso in 3rd grade that he was being led around by the nose by this kid in school, and there wasn't much we could do about it. In 3rd grade, the boy started targeting children and actally beat one kid up on the playground while two other children held him. My boy was there and laughing and was a part of the bullying that led up to it. My son also told me of other "enemies" of this boys'. There was also the "wild man" comment from the principal, and much talk about sex at the lunch table beginning in 2nd grade (the boy had a "girlfriend" in kindergarten and more thereafter).

-- The boys' parents: I did try to forge a relationship in the beginning. But my son would often call this boy (when they were 6, 7, 8) and there would be no return phone call. Even for a birthday party! There were two or three years when we invited this boy to my son's party and we never heard back until like the day of. Of course, my son HAD to have this kid there , so I usually wanted to even plan the party AROUND when he could come. But these people wouldn't call back. For a few years we wondered if he even LIKED my son! They never want my son to come over their house, and if so, for very short durations. The boy is always looking to sleep over other kids' houses, but he can't have anyone sleep over his. I do not want to talk to them about their media choices, because as others have said, that is the way of the world and my comments won't be welcomed. They are private people who have two other children (younger) and just got married about three years ago. They are very hard workers, making probably close to min. wage. They buy him all the latest ipods and phones and stuff, that's how they show their love. I think they're good people, but we do wonder if there's some negative element there but we cannot be sure.

-- About my son: He has ADHD, and I have been told through testing at a hospital that his emotional/social maturity is about 2/3s of his real age. I find that to be true in my observations of him. My 10 year old is more mature than him in most ways. My son talks a lot, often tall tales that he makes up. He cries many times through the day when he's frustrated or doesn't get his way. He has a terrible time focusing on his schoolwork. The whole idea to homeschool mostly came from his inability to thrive in a classroom setting. His problems are a strain on the family, and it's a challenge every day. He is extremely impressionable. He likes things like bmx biking, ninja fighting, airsoft guns -- high excitement type things. However, he is not able to focus enough to participate in skill-building kinds of hobbies and he's mostly the inattentive type of ADD, coming off probably as lazy more than hyper. In other words, and I'm sorry for being so long winded: my son has problems, and my son is heavily influenced by this kid in the following areas
- lying to me
- yelling at cars going by
- swearing, like, beyond what you can imagine. We give an allowance and my son loses 50 cents for each swear. My son has not earned an allowance because of swearing since... January? It's that bad, and it influences my other kids. I know for a fact that this other boy has a disgusting mouth.
- listening to "goth" and "rap." I know this is par for the course and if it was the only issue, it would not be a friendship killer.
-- Obscene gesturing. I'll leave it at that.
-- disliking other kids and yelling stuff at them. The boy's been chased by other kids in the neighborhood because of his mouth more times than I am even aware of, I am sure.
-- lying to me, as I've said. "Tell you mom x, y, z, so that we can a, b, c." For example, in the past when he's wanted to come over, he has lied and said he needs someone to watch him because his mother left. I talked to his mom and it was a lie. Often he'll say if he doesn't see my son now he can't see him all week because he has all these other things to do. Which turns out to be a lie. He has lied several times about his mistreatment of my younger son. "Just tell your mom. _____" is a common theme, in other words. All of the lies I've witnessed are not federal cases, but they point to a ready willingness to lie to manipulate, and I do not like that, at all. In fact, besides, the hitting and bullying it is the biggest problem.

Sorry this is so long winded. I guess it comes down to lying, manipulative behavior; bullying/hitting; and my son's obsession with him, as well as my son's developmental delays.

Here's another example: I mentioned earlier that there's a third boy that's been hanging out with them. Well, I read some texts between my son and the problem boy. He was not going to be around and he said to my son, "YOu're not going to hang around with (the other boy) and make me %#$@$ jealous, are you?" My son said, "No." And he said, "Good boy."

That really gave me the creeps. There is an over the top leader/follower element between my son and him that really bothers me.

I worry about talking directly to him because he lies and I wonder if he even sees the truth. Will he be able to "hear" it? Will he then manipulate and lie about what I said, to his parents? will become some twisted thing where I was innappropriate to him?

I worry about talking to his parents, but I will do it.

I did say to my son that maybe he could take some time off and reconnect with him later. After years of holding back, I have now spelled out for my son why I don't think he's a good friend. My son will usually make up wild lies trying to cover his friends tracks.

I am sorry this is so long and rambling.

Thanks to all of you!!!! I will re-read and consider all of your suggestions and follow up again. Again, I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Abba · #10 Mar 13, '12, 8:35 am

I think that there are things that you need to iron out first before riding on a high horse to speak with the child's parents.

One thing about my children's friendships is that (- the little group -) the parents respect each other. We have nourished the friendships and they are thriving and healthy. There was a parent who chose for his child some time ago and distanced the child from the little group. I heard that now in high school the child is doing drugs and has social problems. This parent wanted his child to make friends with a certain type and with children who were wealthier. We can not live life for our children, as I said before, this can cripple the natural social development/self esteem of a child and harbor resentment.

Another parent decided to register her child at a different middle school when the time came. The child only lasted a year at that middle school away from his friends. The grades went down and the friendships did not compare and the child really missed his friends. Meanwhile, the friends up to now, are all honor students except for one and that's okay.

I just want to emphasize that friendships are REALLY IMPORTANT to children. About the jealousy - I am familiar with that.

You can ask the six grade teacher and he/she can tell you that it is common. Children at that age REALLY bond and continue to. They start getting similar hair cuts, dressing similarly etc...the friendship reaches a point for us it was freshmen and sophomore year in High School, where they become almost one mind. Then they start exerting their autonomy.

It seems as though that is the only friend your son has. I was thinking last night about this and how your son's friend is a courageous little fellow. He knows his friends parents do not like him (yes, children pick up on this very easily) yet he pursues the friendship. That takes courage to possibly be confronted by two adults etc...

What do you want for your son not to have friends? If they were running up and down the stairs - good. That's what children do. If it bothers you tell them to keep it down or to go out in the yard. They have a lot of energy and you are not going to run up and down the stairs with you son and slide down the banister - so let him have his friend.

What I would do from what I gather of the situation is to welcome the kid with open arms - sort of speak. I would nourish the relationship and be honest with the child at some point and address the fact that I was not so receptive for a while there but that I care for him and hey if you ever need a shoulder to cry on or someone to talk to - I am here. LOVE is the answer.

It is really important to know the parents. This has really helped me. This way I get a pretty good idea of what to expect from the child. If the parents are not teaching the children morality, ethics, etc. and important stuff like this then...

Gotta go...

Oh, I want to add, that my children had friends/acquaintances that had problems through out their school career. I pointed out some problems about this child or that and in time they themselves distanced themselves because they noticed what I pointed out. Important stuff not that he has a big nose. You can try to work with a problem that a child may have. Just because a child has a problem does not mean that he cannot be a friend to my children. It depends on the problem. Just giving things to consider.

KrisC · #11 Mar 13, '12, 8:44 am

So I am supposed to ignore the fact that this kid is constantly swearing, making inappropriate sexual comments, hitting my other child, and getting my son to lie to me (or encouraging it)?

When they run out in the back yard or up to the basement and upstairs to the bedrooms, and he whips out his ipod touch and they are viewing inappropriate Youtube videos or saying inappropriate things in front of my other kids, I'm supposed to be ok with that? My point in the running around is that he keeps his distance from me so that I can't overhear what's being said, and 9 times out of 10 I find out it was not good.

Like I said, this is not a snap decision. This has been going on for five years. We HAVE welcomed him. My husband has spent many an hour playing ball with him. We have had him sleep over. We have brought him to vacation bible school and youth group outings.

I have all along been saying what you say, to myself.

And in the last month or so, after praying for discernement, I have turned my thinking around to say: wait a minute. Why am I putting up with this?

I agree that the bonding is important, but as I said, my son has been obsessive and that's part of the reason there is NO ROOM for him to build other friendships.

Thank you for your comments, it helps me so much to think through the issue, sincerely.

SteveGC · #12 Mar 13, '12, 9:04 am

This is indeed a difficult dilemma. I agree with much of what Abba has said, but with some hesitation. What I mean to say is, if I were in your position, knowing my child had ADHD and was that impressionable, I probably would've significantly limited their contact with one another long ago (back when you were having some of your earliest red flags). I know that's not helpful now, but I just wanted to express that you've graduated into a level here that now will take some mental fortitude, extreme patience, understanding and love.

The combinations here seem quite toxic. This other boy, from what you have described, exhibits the types of behaviors that, if left unchecked, typically evolve into much more dangerous behaviors later on, and I simply wouldn't have my children around such a person. This doesn't seem to me to be your run-of-the-mill "wild man". I ran with some wild ones in my youth and I can tell you that the ones that crossed the lines over into bullying, excessive swearing, chronic lying, manipulation....were the ones that the rest of us gradually distanced ourselves from. The rest of us were no saints, to be sure. We cussed, smoked (at around 14), drank a little, pulled pranks, teased other kids from time to time, etc. But this "boy" was the type that our crowd would eventually alienate because we knew he was bad news.

This is not to say you should alienate him. Heaven knows that the kid needs some proper guidance and discipline - but as you're not his parent, I'm not exactly sure what you can do, save for the things many on this thread are advising. Bottom line, to me, his parents need to know about his behavior, especially when it crosses the line beyond "normal" kid shenanigans. If they don't like your criticism, then to me, that's another sign that you should begin the process of separation.

KrisC · #13 Mar 13, '12, 9:19 am

For a long while the friendship WAS limited, because there was no contact outside of school. I could converse with my son, and talk with teachers, but that was it. Then when the friendship blossomed outside of school, I tried making sure they came to my house. All stuff I already said. As of late we have been limiting the time to one or two hours a week, some weeks no contact at all. And just in that short time there are issues with internet content, swearing, hitting, maltreatment of peers. So that's what brought here.

All of your suggestions and insights are extremely helpful. We have already worked through many of these stages (letting it run it's natural course and hoping for the best along with offereing guidance, bringing this child into the fold and loving him, limiting the friendship and fostering a separtion-- we have done all of this over the course of the years). There was a brief time last summer when my son spent lots of time with this boy and two other boys. But that devolved by the end of summer, and now the two other boys hate my son and his friend. Since then, we have been attempting to oversee the friendship and limit contact.

I don't want my son to hate us. But on the other hand, I feel that I have to be strong here and keep boundaries. I need language to use with my son and possibly his friend to state these realities in a loving way.

Abba · #14 Mar 13, '12, 9:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisC

So I am supposed to ignore the fact that this kid is constantly swearing, making inappropriate sexual comments, hitting my other child, and getting my son to lie to me (or encouraging it)?

Of course, not. I would not have allowed this to go unnoticed once. On the first swearing I would have correct the child and had a little discussion with him about swearing. The inappropriate sexual comments would be addressed would have been addressed the first and hopefully last time - right on the spot. Not when it would have been convenient for me, but right then and there because my children ARE my priorities. The way I have handled it is that I become a bit of a parent to my children's friends. Not exactly, but as the parent of their friend, and adult figure, who happens to ALSO CARE for them. You see, the correction have a foundation on sincere love for them. It's not all about my children and the friends are a zero to the left. I care for the friends. I make sacrifices for the friends too. Believe me, I do not always feel on those Saturday mornings after a sleep over like making twenty five pancakes, I don't know how many eggs, toast, etc... or the night before when I can spend money for pizza preparing food for now teenage boys - who eat A LOT. But, I do - it's life and it's good. Soon, they will be out of the house and I will really miss my children so this is the time for me to make good memories for them and their friends.

This reminds me of parents who are dealing with some problems, and I am being very sincere with you here - they come to me because they want to know how I did it. The problem is that they are having problems when the children become teenagers or are in High School. That's a different ball game. I started loving my children and comforting them from the womb. I nourished our bond with love, trust and all that good stuff.

Well, I would see what could be done with love and honesty to correct and guide the friend. I would speak with the friend with respect and love. Prepare some good stuff to eat and sit down and have a nice discussion. I would let him know what I think about swearing and inappropriate sex stuff and discuss with him. Ask him why he is looking at that stuff and what's cooking. Give him an opportunity with love and sincerity - kids have a radar for this. If the child accepts your correction with love, he may just stop. Talk to him as if he was your own child.

I would very smoothly come to the point of meeting and chatting with the parents. Not a I am better than you and I have a problem with your brat, but, just adults greeting each other. If appropriate, I would even make a casual comment about how I am working with rectifying certain behaviors of endearingly 'Tommy" whatever their child's name is and get them to help and get some feed back etc...

Finally, if you see the the parents are negligent and have low moral standards then of course you want to distance your child. Right now, it does not seem as though you have really given the child a good honest opportunity and you do not even know the parents. I don't know if their low wages have anything to do with you views...who knows...

Good luck.

KrisC · #15 Mar 13, '12, 9:36 am

"Right now, it does not seem as though you have really given the child a good honest opportunity and you do not even know the parents. I don't know if their low wages have anything to do with you views...who knows..."

Abby, I must be doing a really terrible job of explaining myself. I have NEVER let inapprorpirate behavior go uncorrected, and have addressed it from the beginning. I have had this kid sleep over. I have had him over to my house almost every weekend. I have spoken with him and corrected him (not in a mean way). I don't understand how you could say I have not given the child a good, honest opportunity?? I know the parents as well as I can. I have had several chats with his mom full of small talk. I called them "hard working." And you say that their low wages are affecting my views?

I appreciate your time but am beginning to feel like you are on a bit of high horse and are making judgements about me. Sometimes we can do all the right things and it still does not work out.

You talk of speaking to them in a loving way. Yes! Of course! And WHAT exactly would you say? For behaviors that have been repeatedly corrected over two to three years by me but now are just increasingly hidden from my view as they get older, but that I keep getting glimpses of?

And regarding the parents moral standards: of course they are "lower" or different then mine. They had three kids together out of wedlock. They let their kid watch and listen to "whatever," which in this day and age is quite terrible. As I've stated, they are private and distance themselves, which raises our suspicions about other issues. They let their boy go sleep over houses where they don't know the parents very well. I can't change any of those things.

Anyway, I don't want to seem like a don't appreciate and hear you. I do. Thank you for your viewpoint and I will definitely pursue a loving conversation with the boy, involving yummy food.

(and yes I feed my kids friends and I homeschool and spend a lot of time loving on my kids and their friends.)

It will most likely be a "break up" conversation as I don't forsee change, but then again, you never know.