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  #1  
Old Mar 15, '12, 2:28 pm
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JD27076 JD27076 is offline
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Default Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

This is what I read:
If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.

Is this true?
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  #2  
Old Mar 15, '12, 3:53 pm
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

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Originally Posted by JD27076 View Post
This is what I read:
If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.

Is this true?
No! Both sides are to blame,not the CC or EO Church...BOTH! Period!
  #3  
Old Mar 15, '12, 4:19 pm
Luvtosew Luvtosew is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

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Originally Posted by JD27076 View Post
This is what I read:
If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.

Is this true?
So the Pope of Rome broke away from the other 4, interesting. thank you.
  #4  
Old Mar 15, '12, 4:33 pm
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CatholicZ09 CatholicZ09 is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

No. Both churches had a schism. You will hear from Orthodox Christians that Catholics broke away from the One Church, and you will hear Catholics say that the Orthodox broke away from the One Church. Fact of the matter is that both sides just simoutaneously split.
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  #5  
Old Mar 15, '12, 4:53 pm
Luvtosew Luvtosew is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

Just over the change in the Creed?
  #6  
Old Mar 15, '12, 4:55 pm
MarkThompson MarkThompson is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

No, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church subsists in the Catholic Church, and always has. The (so-called) Orthodox churches are in schism. Of course, if you read their apologetical propaganda they will argue the opposite, but it's a bit like a Southerner trying to rewrite history to claim that it was the North that seceded.

And while it's true that both sides made political missteps, that should not be taken as saying that the Catholic Church made any theological errors. The theological and ecclesiological errors lie entirely on the side of the (so-called) Orthodox.
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  #7  
Old Mar 15, '12, 5:04 pm
Art321 Art321 is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

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Originally Posted by Luvtosew View Post
Just over the change in the Creed?
No, I believe it was a bit more than that, but I would think that the phrase "and the Son" that was added to the Creed by the Latin Church brought much discomfort to the Eastern Churchs.
  #8  
Old Mar 15, '12, 5:14 pm
Art321 Art321 is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

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No, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church subsists in the Catholic Church, and always has.
In other words, the Catholic Church IS the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and by saying this we can determine that we have the fullness of the Faith. But the Eastern Churchs that identify themselves as Orthodox are still true churchs that can be traced all the way back to the Apostles. And as such, there are elements of the true Church within these churchs although they are not completely within the Catholic Church. Kind of a paradox, I know.

Also in regards to how the schism happened, I would say that the both sides did commit errors in this regard. Now, I'm not saying theological errors but political errors. Yes, even in religion there are politics of some kind.
  #9  
Old Mar 15, '12, 5:16 pm
clmowry clmowry is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD27076 View Post
This is what I read:
If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.

Is this true?
No.

There is no doubt that the Orthodox Church is as "Catholic" as it can be without reconciliation with Rome (May God grant that reconciliation comes soon.)

If you accept the Orthodox Church as "the Church" then I think you will find some things that were said about the Bishop of Rome's role in the Church that are difficult to reconcile with that belief.

IMHO, either the Catholic Church is "the Church" or the Church of Christ has failed.

I believe and pray unificaton will come soon.

I think this is why God has prevented "the Orthodox Church" [at least most of it, (I'm not really sure how you define all of "the Orthodox Church" in the absence of Rome?)] from declaring any of their councils post the split ecumenical. If they had, I think that would have made unification a practical impossibility.

Chuck
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  #10  
Old Mar 15, '12, 5:31 pm
Jacob50 Jacob50 is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD27076 View Post
This is what I read:
If you are Roman Catholic, your church shared the same rich apostolic and doctrinal heritage as the Orthodox Church for the first thousand years of its history, since during the first millennium they were one and the same Church. Lamentably, in 1054, the Pope of Rome broke away from the other four Apostolic Patriarchates (which include Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), by tampering with the Original Creed of the Church, and considering himself to be infallible. Thus your church is 1,000 years old.

Is this true?
No.

Of course ask an Eastern Orthodox he will state otherwise.

It is quite a shame a schism this big occurred. I pray everyday in my life for a full communion someday. Imagine both churches in full communion one day. Think about it. We would be even more worldwide.

Here is a map of the distribution of Catholics Worldwide:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Catholics.png

Here is a map of the distribution of Orthodox Worldwide:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...by_Country.svg

The red parts are oriental orthodox though.

Combine Catholics and Eastern Orthodox population.
All we would need is a few parts of Asia and a bit of Africa and our church would be physically present in all corners of the earth...

Unfortunately, its going to be hard for a unification. But you never know.
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  #11  
Old Mar 15, '12, 5:38 pm
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RyanBlack RyanBlack is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clmowry View Post
No.

There is no doubt that the Orthodox Church is as "Catholic" as it can be without reconciliation with Rome (May God grant that reconciliation comes soon.)

If you accept the Orthodox Church as "the Church" then I think you will find some things that were said about the Bishop of Rome's role in the Church that are difficult to reconcile with that belief.

IMHO, either the Catholic Church is "the Church" or the Church of Christ has failed.

I believe and pray unificaton will come soon.

I think this is why God has prevented "the Orthodox Church" [at least most of it, (I'm not really sure how you define all of "the Orthodox Church" in the absence of Rome?)] from declaring any of their councils post the split ecumenical. If they had, I think that would have made unification a practical impossibility.

Chuck
I fear that this has already happened, just the other way around. The fact that the Catholic Church has declared 14 post-schism councils to be ecumenical and through the office of the pope of Rome has declared as dogmatic positions that are unacceptable to a great many Orthodox may have made unification a practical impossibility. I pray that this is not really the case, but in reality, I suspect it is.
  #12  
Old Mar 15, '12, 5:46 pm
Art321 Art321 is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

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Originally Posted by RyanBlack View Post
I fear that this has already happened, just the other way around. The fact that the Catholic Church has declared 14 post-schism councils to be ecumenical and through the office of the pope of Rome has declared as dogmatic positions that are unacceptable to a great many Orthodox may have made unification a practical impossibility. I pray that this is not really the case, but in reality, I suspect it is.
Ohh, come on. Don't say that.

Reunion is always possible if we continue to look at the bright side of things. I agree that there may never be a reunion but we mustn't look at it so negative.

Always keep your highest hopes in this case.
  #13  
Old Mar 15, '12, 6:38 pm
clmowry clmowry is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBlack View Post
I fear that this has already happened, just the other way around. The fact that the Catholic Church has declared 14 post-schism councils to be ecumenical and through the office of the pope of Rome has declared as dogmatic positions that are unacceptable to a great many Orthodox may have made unification a practical impossibility. I pray that this is not really the case, but in reality, I suspect it is.
Yep. There is really only one way that reunification is possible.

Chuck
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Take this love, therefore, as the end that is set before you, to which you are to refer all that you say, and, whatever you narrate, narrate it in such a manner that he to whom you are discoursing on hearing may believe, on believing may hope, on hoping may love. - St. Augustine
  #14  
Old Mar 16, '12, 5:47 am
Luvtosew Luvtosew is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob50 View Post
No.

Of course ask an Eastern Orthodox he will state otherwise.

It is quite a shame a schism this big occurred. I pray everyday in my life for a full communion someday. Imagine both churches in full communion one day. Think about it. We would be even more worldwide.

Here is a map of the distribution of Catholics Worldwide:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Catholics.png

Here is a map of the distribution of Orthodox Worldwide:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...by_Country.svg

The red parts are oriental orthodox though.

Combine Catholics and Eastern Orthodox population.
All we would need is a few parts of Asia and a bit of Africa and our church would be physically present in all corners of the earth...

Unfortunately, its going to be hard for a unification. But you never know.
Thank you , so Russia is mainly Orthodox I see.
  #15  
Old Mar 16, '12, 6:42 am
sw85 sw85 is offline
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Default Re: Did the Catholic Church break off from the other Apostolic Patriarchates?

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Originally Posted by clmowry View Post
Yep. There is really only one way that reunification is possible.

Chuck
If they bend the knee to Rome?
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