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  #136  
Old Apr 26, '12, 9:21 pm
MidnightSun12 MidnightSun12 is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
This thread is dedicated to the topic of doing the hard work of finding and implementing solutions that involve people reducing their own GHGs (and thereby reducing their other pollution, and saving resources for future generations), not reducing the people of the earth to solve the problem.

Unfortunately there is no silver bullet for AGW, only a myriad of solutions, at least some of which people can implement. At least those things that save them money or do not cost. That's all I'm asking.
Lynn, I think that the discussion you are having here is pure and I don't believe that you are doing anything contrary to a sound Catholic faith by encouraging people to think of ways to reduce their consumption (we are very much called to avoid gluttony and not consume more then we need from the earth). If this thread was titled "how can we mitigate our over-consumption" it would have my full 100% backing.

What I feel obligated to re-inforce, however, is that the leading scientists and politicians behind the climate change movement don't share your view on being open to life and are actually promoting a very dangerous anti-catholic world view. Reducing consumption is, in fact, only a small part of a much larger umbrella. The fact that scientists are warning of a coming "global catastrophy" where all life will end inherently justifies much more then a personal reduction in consumption. Since we are talking about how to mitigate climate change instead of personal comsumption on this thread, I feel that it is my duty to continue posting what leading minds in the climate change movement truly believe the solution to global warming to be:

A quote from the United Nations Population Fund:
Quote:
The importance of the speed and magnitude of recent population growth in boosting future greenhouse-gas emissions is well recognized among scientists, including the authors of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's reports.
I quote Dave Foreman, Co-founder of Earth First:
Quote:
My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure, and see wilderness returning
I quote CNN co-founder and UN supporter Ted Turner:
Quote:
A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal
Please note that I am not doing this to attack you, but promoting climate change as merely being a reduction in personal compsumption is simply inconsistent with the view's of the "experts" in this field. A Catholic needs to take a very close look at some of these quotes when deciding what "Climate Change" actually means and that we are actually condoning much more then simply a reduction in personal consumption when we "support" reducing emissions and cast our votes and donate to charities that support such an end.

Last edited by MidnightSun12; Apr 26, '12 at 9:38 pm.
  #137  
Old Apr 27, '12, 5:18 am
vz71 vz71 is online now
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
The genocidal ethic of continuing to cause AGW and kill people through its knock-on effect is totally unCatholic and insidious.
This is why I also specified it far better to simply have a Catholic ethic.

It has nothing to do with liking it hot, it has everything to do with placing values where they should be.
We are called to be good stewards, but we are not called to place the environment above humanity.
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  #138  
Old Apr 27, '12, 8:04 am
Calliso Calliso is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vz71 View Post
This is why I also specified it far better to simply have a Catholic ethic.

It has nothing to do with liking it hot, it has everything to do with placing values where they should be.
We are called to be good stewards, but we are not called to place the environment above humanity.
You realize right that the enviroment is very important to human civilization right? Or perhaps more accurately the climate. The climate has been fairly stable since human civilization started. Now we might be pushing the climate towards a state not seen in 100s of thousands and maybe even millions of years. This is not a good thing and could and quite likely will have very negative consequences. Maybe not species ending or billions dying but still things could get pretty bad. And the more we donlt do to mitigate the likely worse it will be.
  #139  
Old Apr 27, '12, 8:26 am
vz71 vz71 is online now
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliso View Post
You realize right that the enviroment is very important to human civilization right? Or perhaps more accurately the climate. The climate has been fairly stable since human civilization started. Now we might be pushing the climate towards a state not seen in 100s of thousands and maybe even millions of years. This is not a good thing and could and quite likely will have very negative consequences. Maybe not species ending or billions dying but still things could get pretty bad. And the more we donlt do to mitigate the likely worse it will be.
And without a full understanding of what is happening and why, taking action to 'mitigate' anything becomes a giant game of russian roulette.

Remember, taking the wrong action can often be worse then taking no action at all.

I choose not to subscribe to the notion that we must do something prior to understanding what and why.
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  #140  
Old Apr 27, '12, 7:35 pm
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun12 View Post
Lynn, I think that the discussion you are having here is pure and I don't believe that you are doing anything contrary to a sound Catholic faith by encouraging people to think of ways to reduce their consumption (we are very much called to avoid gluttony and not consume more then we need from the earth). If this thread was titled "how can we mitigate our over-consumption" it would have my full 100% backing.

What I feel obligated to re-inforce, however, is that the leading scientists and politicians behind the climate change movement don't share your view on being open to life and are actually promoting a very dangerous anti-catholic world view. Reducing consumption is, in fact, only a small part of a much larger umbrella. The fact that scientists are warning of a coming "global catastrophy" where all life will end inherently justifies much more then a personal reduction in consumption. Since we are talking about how to mitigate climate change instead of personal comsumption on this thread, I feel that it is my duty to continue posting what leading minds in the climate change movement truly believe the solution to global warming to be:

A quote from the United Nations Population Fund:
Quote:
The importance of the speed and magnitude of recent population growth in boosting future greenhouse-gas emissions is well recognized among scientists, including the authors of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's reports.
I quote Dave Foreman, Co-founder of Earth First:
Quote:
My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure, and see wilderness returning
I quote CNN co-founder and UN supporter Ted Turner:
Quote:
A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal
Please note that I am not doing this to attack you, but promoting climate change as merely being a reduction in personal compsumption is simply inconsistent with the view's of the "experts" in this field. A Catholic needs to take a very close look at some of these quotes when deciding what "Climate Change" actually means and that we are actually condoning much more then simply a reduction in personal consumption when we "support" reducing emissions and cast our votes and donate to charities that support such an end.
This is all the more reason why Catholics should get on board, to bring a Catholic ethic and sensibility to the table. For instance, that it is totally wrong to kill children (thru abortion) in order to save the world for the children.

However, I have nothing against people becoming priests, monks, nuns, hermits and other celibates....or practicing the rhythm method, which would also have the effect of reducing population. But I would not promote an anti-child ethic, which could be detrimental to young children growing up & thinking they are the problem. ((For instance there was a GRIST blog thread about a story of a woman in England who mounted a "No Baby" campaign with a symbol of a baby carriage with a slash through it. I heartily objected to it and said if a couple decided not to have babies so as to help the environment, which they should do thru natural family planning, then they should not publically advertise it, especially with that "No Baby" slogan and symbol, bec it would be harmful to young children and make them feel unwanted and they are somehow the problem. That is my Catholicism in action.))

I'll relate this little story: I had a good Catholic friend up north who had twin girls. When they were about 5 years old she got pregnant again. One day when someone asked her girls if they wanted a little brother or sister, they said, "I don't care, as long as it isn't twins." Apparently they had overheard their mother saying that to a friend, and she felt terrible that they had gotten the message that there was something wrong with twins, with them.

The children have NOT caused the environmental problems -- they are simply inheriting these problems from their parents, parents' generation, and grandparents' generation -- the state of the earth is our legacy to them. If anything we need to do all we can to make the world good and better for them.
__________________
"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
-- St. Francis of Assisi

"I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth."
-- St. Therese of the Child Jesus
  #141  
Old Apr 27, '12, 7:40 pm
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vz71 View Post
And without a full understanding of what is happening and why, taking action to 'mitigate' anything becomes a giant game of russian roulette.

Remember, taking the wrong action can often be worse then taking no action at all.

I choose not to subscribe to the notion that we must do something prior to understanding what and why.
I choose do to all those things that make sense from other perspectives in addition to mitigating AGW (other environmental problems, financial problems, conflicts over scarce resources, etc).

If everyone did this -- reducing their GHG emissions down 50 or 70%, saving money without lowering productivity or living standards -- that may have the effect of destroying climate scientists' evidence that AGW is a reality, and the denialists can have the last laugh, and I'll be laughing along with them & dancing for joy.

And then I can get back to my regularly scheduled life....what's left of it after struggling to get people to mitigate AGW for the past 22 years.
__________________
"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
-- St. Francis of Assisi

"I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth."
-- St. Therese of the Child Jesus
  #142  
Old Apr 28, '12, 12:33 pm
MidnightSun12 MidnightSun12 is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
This is all the more reason why Catholics should get on board, to bring a Catholic ethic and sensibility to the table. For instance, that it is totally wrong to kill children (thru abortion) in order to save the world for the children.

However, I have nothing against people becoming priests, monks, nuns, hermits and other celibates....or practicing the rhythm method, which would also have the effect of reducing population. But I would not promote an anti-child ethic, which could be detrimental to young children growing up & thinking they are the problem. ((For instance there was a GRIST blog thread about a story of a woman in England who mounted a "No Baby" campaign with a symbol of a baby carriage with a slash through it. I heartily objected to it and said if a couple decided not to have babies so as to help the environment, which they should do thru natural family planning, then they should not publically advertise it, especially with that "No Baby" slogan and symbol, bec it would be harmful to young children and make them feel unwanted and they are somehow the problem. That is my Catholicism in action.))

I'll relate this little story: I had a good Catholic friend up north who had twin girls. When they were about 5 years old she got pregnant again. One day when someone asked her girls if they wanted a little brother or sister, they said, "I don't care, as long as it isn't twins." Apparently they had overheard their mother saying that to a friend, and she felt terrible that they had gotten the message that there was something wrong with twins, with them.

The children have NOT caused the environmental problems -- they are simply inheriting these problems from their parents, parents' generation, and grandparents' generation -- the state of the earth is our legacy to them. If anything we need to do all we can to make the world good and better for them.
I think you bring a very sensible argument to the table and I agree that our society consumes far more then it should (it's wasteful, gluttonous, and is stealing from those in poorer nations).

That said, if you disagree with a major finding of the United Nations IPCC that over-population is contributing to climate change, then should you really be supporting this institution's agenda and enouraging people to subscribe to it? The Catechism of the Catholic church makes it clear that we can NEVER support an evil agenda with hopes of bringing about a positive end.

For example, I think the Obama administration is very wrong in it's abortion policy, but I would NEVER vote for that party and campaign for them with the hopes that my positive influence might one day turn them away from abortion. Evil must always be opposed.

I just think this thread would be much better served if it was encouraging people to think of ways to mitigate "Human Over-Consumption" instead of "Climate Change". This way, you could oppose human wastefulness and materialism (which I completely agree with) without supporting a scientific and political community that clearly is opposed to both of our Catholic beliefs on a very serious issue.
  #143  
Old Apr 29, '12, 2:37 am
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun12 View Post
I think you bring a very sensible argument to the table and I agree that our society consumes far more then it should (it's wasteful, gluttonous, and is stealing from those in poorer nations).

That said, if you disagree with a major finding of the United Nations IPCC that over-population is contributing to climate change, then should you really be supporting this institution's agenda and enouraging people to subscribe to it? The Catechism of the Catholic church makes it clear that we can NEVER support an evil agenda with hopes of bringing about a positive end.

For example, I think the Obama administration is very wrong in it's abortion policy, but I would NEVER vote for that party and campaign for them with the hopes that my positive influence might one day turn them away from abortion. Evil must always be opposed.

I just think this thread would be much better served if it was encouraging people to think of ways to mitigate "Human Over-Consumption" instead of "Climate Change". This way, you could oppose human wastefulness and materialism (which I completely agree with) without supporting a scientific and political community that clearly is opposed to both of our Catholic beliefs on a very serious issue.
I do not support abortion, nor have I ever done so. I support reducing our killing and harming of people, whether that be from war, conflict, crime, abortion, or environmental problems. Of course, we sometimes have to choose the lesser of evils, but that does not mean we condone that lesser evil. As you said evil must always be opposed, whether it be greater evil or lesser evil.

RE our reasons for reducing our harm, I guess it doesn't really matter why one reduces their pollution, including GHG emissions, as long as these are being reduced.

As a Carmelite (OCDS) I like to consider St. John of the Cross as being my favorite "environmentalist," as he proposed "nada, nada, nada," a rejection of all that is not God in the material, as well as spiritual realms (of spiritual comforts). If we really follow these saints and Jesus, then there would be no environmental problems at all. We'd be living in complete simplicity, and most of us would be living celibate lives of self-sacrifice.

However, knowing that we are very weak creatures and most of us find it hard being a saint, or even living like monks and nuns in monasteries dedicated to a life of poverty, I would propose that we at the least reduce, reuse, recycle & go on alt energy to whatever extent feasible, and try to find happiness and joy in less material/energy-intensive pursuits.

However, in America (as in the world) GHG emissions have been increasing and increasing -- not decreasing at all, even tho there are plenty of off-the-shelf solutions that save us money without reducing our living standard or productivity that could reduce these emissions by at least 70% here in America. So something is very wrong with that picture -- people on the whole are not reducing for whatever reasons they might have for reducing.

And it is not an abstract thing like "over-population" that is contributing to problems, robbing gas stations, being mean and cruel to family members, cheating at work and school, polluting the earth, etc. It is people that are doing those things. The focus some may have on "it's over-population that's to blame" sort of reminds me of "I'm not at fault, it's other people." And also, "I want my kids to have it all, so that means others should have less or no kids."

The really hard work is to try and be good oneself.

I remember a Kung Fu episode where Carradine tells the master, "I want to end evil in the world." The master answers back, "You can only hope to end evil in yourself."

As Carmelites we are called to be good, and in that way help to bring goodness to the world. If I have failed, then my deepest apologies.

Let's all look for harmless ways to solve our problems, including AGW.
__________________
"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
-- St. Francis of Assisi

"I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth."
-- St. Therese of the Child Jesus
  #144  
Old Apr 29, '12, 10:22 am
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Here is a resource for youth (aimed at 15-24 year olds) that is pretty much about what MidnightSun has been calling for re our over-consumption. It's about what they can do in terms of lifestyles/consumption & mitigating climate change: http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/002...28/212876E.pdf

It doesn't say anything about population control measures (draconian or otherwise), as far as I can see, so it looks to be okay. Also, although I sincerely believe it is mainly the responsibility of adults (including seniors) to mitigate climate change and other environmental problems we are leaving as a very bad legacy for our children, and not in any way put the heavy burden esp on small children to do the environmentally correct thing, this one is aimed a older children and young adults, so it passes my "rotten smell test" -- but it does NOT absolve older adults from doing the main part and leading the way for the youth.

Here are the contents:
YouthXchange Guidebook on Climate Change and Lifestyles

CONTENTS
  1. YXC Guidebook Series (p.6) Aims of the YouthXchange Guidebook on Climate Change and Lifestyles. The Guidebook. The challenges.
  2. Learning for change (p.8) Education for sustainable development. ESD, climate change and lifestyles.
  3. Changing climates (p.10) Climate and weather. Global temperatures. Human causes. Maintaining ecosystems. Different scenarios. An invisible threat.
  4. Changing effects and impacts (p.14) Effect on the planet. Ecosystems. Impacts on people. Developed, Emerging and Developing countries. Young people. Indigenous youth. Girls and young women. Islanders. The good news.
  5. Lifestyle choices (p.20) Lifestyles. A world of choice? Ecological and carbon footprints. Advertising.
  6. Good life (p.24) Consumer culture. Wellbeing and happiness. Consuming the Earth. Low carbon lifestyles. Pessimism.
  7. Food (p.28) A world of opposites. Food miles. Farm animals. Virtual water. Local food. Meat-free meals. Organic food.
  8. Energy control (p.32) Energy rules. Fossil fuels. Energy choices. Renewable energy. Personal control. Controlling temperature. Heating water. Controlling light and appliances.
  9. Travel and transport (p.36) A world on the move. Transport emissions. Making better choices. Urban public transport. To fly or not? Touring the planet.
  10. Leisure and entertainment (p.40) Having fun. Organizing low carbon events. Low carbon sports. Climate-friendly arts.
  11. Shopping for stuff (p.42) Ethical shopping. Zero waste. Embedded water. Alternatives to buying new. Clothes and textiles. Packaging. Labels.
  12. Money and jobs (p.46) Money and banks. Banking alternatives. Cost of climate change. Buy now, pay later culture. Green jobs.
  13. Connecting with others (p.48) Communicating climate change. Digital communication. Electronic waste. Electronic emissions. Social networks. Communicating with decision-makers.
  14. Taking action (p.52) Choice of actions. Different impacts. Group action. Campaigning.
  15. Online resources (p.56) Websites and videos.
Now for Catholic youth, they could be given this, along with the writings on JPII, BXVI and the US Bishops on climate change for a really comprehensive approach that includes our religious calling to spiritual union with God and charity toward others.
__________________
"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
-- St. Francis of Assisi

"I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth."
-- St. Therese of the Child Jesus
  #145  
Old Apr 29, '12, 10:45 am
JimG JimG is online now
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vz71 View Post
This is why I also specified it far better to simply have a Catholic ethic.

It has nothing to do with liking it hot, it has everything to do with placing values where they should be.
We are called to be good stewards, but we are not called to place the environment above humanity.
I agree that we are not called to place the environment above humanity.

I like to look at the larger picture. I view human beings as a good, not as an evil. God created humans as composites of body and soul. He intended each one of us individually. He wants us to be here. He intended us to be fertile and multiply, to build civilizations based on families, to create technologies which would never arise through the operation of natural processes alone. Only human beings can innovate. That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Cities thrive on growth. Small towns with shrinking populations shrivel up and die. The most thriving places are generally those with the greatest population densityŚNew York, Mexico City, Hong Kong, Taiwan. I know of few New Yorkers who wish to move to Wallace, Kansas. They'd be bored.

Yet many nations have adopted no growth population policies which are leading them into eventual decline cause by a birth dearth. A declining population produces fewer pollutants, so one might say that's a good thing for the environment, but it will be a disaster for those nations in the throes of a depopulation crisis, both economically and culturally.

Humans actually take up very little of the space that earth provides. There's still lots of room. But we have a whole universe to explore, not just one planet.

Global warming is inevitable in the long run, if for no other reason than that our sun will eventually expand into a red giant star during the course of its normal life cycle. Humanity needs to have expanded outward by that point.
  #146  
Old Apr 29, '12, 12:53 pm
MidnightSun12 MidnightSun12 is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
I do not support abortion, nor have I ever done so. I support reducing our killing and harming of people, whether that be from war, conflict, crime, abortion, or environmental problems. Of course, we sometimes have to choose the lesser of evils, but that does not mean we condone that lesser evil. As you said evil must always be opposed, whether it be greater evil or lesser evil.

RE our reasons for reducing our harm, I guess it doesn't really matter why one reduces their pollution, including GHG emissions, as long as these are being reduced.

As a Carmelite (OCDS) I like to consider St. John of the Cross as being my favorite "environmentalist," as he proposed "nada, nada, nada," a rejection of all that is not God in the material, as well as spiritual realms (of spiritual comforts). If we really follow these saints and Jesus, then there would be no environmental problems at all. We'd be living in complete simplicity, and most of us would be living celibate lives of self-sacrifice.

However, knowing that we are very weak creatures and most of us find it hard being a saint, or even living like monks and nuns in monasteries dedicated to a life of poverty, I would propose that we at the least reduce, reuse, recycle & go on alt energy to whatever extent feasible, and try to find happiness and joy in less material/energy-intensive pursuits.

However, in America (as in the world) GHG emissions have been increasing and increasing -- not decreasing at all, even tho there are plenty of off-the-shelf solutions that save us money without reducing our living standard or productivity that could reduce these emissions by at least 70% here in America. So something is very wrong with that picture -- people on the whole are not reducing for whatever reasons they might have for reducing.

And it is not an abstract thing like "over-population" that is contributing to problems, robbing gas stations, being mean and cruel to family members, cheating at work and school, polluting the earth, etc. It is people that are doing those things. The focus some may have on "it's over-population that's to blame" sort of reminds me of "I'm not at fault, it's other people." And also, "I want my kids to have it all, so that means others should have less or no kids."

The really hard work is to try and be good oneself.

I remember a Kung Fu episode where Carradine tells the master, "I want to end evil in the world." The master answers back, "You can only hope to end evil in yourself."

As Carmelites we are called to be good, and in that way help to bring goodness to the world. If I have failed, then my deepest apologies.

Let's all look for harmless ways to solve our problems, including AGW.
Thank you for the perspective. I will pray that God blesses your efforts and keeps you on a righteous path.

This goes for all of us whether we vote republican, democrat, are in favor of climate change or against it... We all have to pray to not become labelled or overly-attached to any political movement or party. At the end of the day any ideology that comes from human kind is fallen in nature. There is only one Truth out there, and we all have to strive to be Catholic first and foremost and make all of our political affiliations a distant second.

Lord, please help separate us all from our political loyalties in the hopes that we might better serve Your Will!
  #147  
Old Apr 29, '12, 1:40 pm
nordskoven nordskoven is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

National Geographic says that there is global warming on Mars. Gonna stop that, too? This is solar-based global warming. Nothing can change that. Glaciers are melting in Greenland. Glaciers are forming in Tibet. Stop the world and get off. Al Gore's global warming agenda is fueled by his ownership of Occidental Petroleum. It will drive up energy prices to trade carbon credits as each transaction will take a wee fee, something Fannie Mae is eagerly awaiting. Their new computer program to trade carbon credits will rake in lots of dough on the backs of mortgage customers whose carbon credits they will seize; and from each transaction in a transaction fee. The love of $$$$$$$$$$$$ is the root of all evil. Stop cooperating with this ruse.
  #148  
Old Apr 29, '12, 7:06 pm
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

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Originally Posted by nordskoven View Post
National Geographic says that there is global warming on Mars. Gonna stop that, too? This is solar-based global warming. Nothing can change that. Glaciers are melting in Greenland. Glaciers are forming in Tibet. Stop the world and get off. Al Gore's global warming agenda is fueled by his ownership of Occidental Petroleum. It will drive up energy prices to trade carbon credits as each transaction will take a wee fee, something Fannie Mae is eagerly awaiting. Their new computer program to trade carbon credits will rake in lots of dough on the backs of mortgage customers whose carbon credits they will seize; and from each transaction in a transaction fee. The love of $$$$$$$$$$$$ is the root of all evil. Stop cooperating with this ruse.
Please, let's stick to the topic of how we can mitigate global warming. If you don't think AGW is happening, you can still make suggestions as to how we should mitigate it (like, let's not kill off half the world's pop , but let's turn off lights not in use, etc.).

National Geographic is just plain wrong if indeed it said Mars is warming (which I doubt), just as it was wrong about Greenland melt & remapping (they overdid it). Solar irradiation has been going into a decline for the past 10 years (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_minimum and http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/scycle.html ), and Mars doesn't have hardly any GHGs in its atmosphere, and not many SUVs either (see http://www.skepticalscience.com/glob...ng-on-mars.htm ).

I also do not like slurs against Al Gore. He is a hero in my books....as politicians go. I also inherited some fossil fuel shares - in gas (some few dollars worth). That doesn't make me an evil person. If Gore has made some mistakes, I would hope people can forgive him. He has done a tremendous amount of good in getting the message about AGW out there (which I wish he had done more as VP).

I really do not understand why people would want to risk the welfare of their children and progeny and cling so fearfully to false ideas re AGW.

Well, if people refuse to mitigate what may happen is their very worse fears -- as resources for our viability go into a serious decline there could be a totalitarian takeover on the one hand, and anarchy and conflict on the other.

Come on now, folks, is it really isn't too much to ask to reduce your GHG emissions in ways that reduce other pollution and save money and help the economy? That's all I've ever asked of anyone. I've never asked anyone to sacrifice in any way. The if AGW turns out to be a hoax, then no harm done, and lots of benefits gained.

At least I would ask pray to God for guidance on this matter, and I'm certain He will help in all ways.
__________________
"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
-- St. Francis of Assisi

"I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth."
-- St. Therese of the Child Jesus
  #149  
Old May 3, '12, 11:31 am
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Join Date: May 20, 2010
Posts: 2,884
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Here's something -- use the gas from shale for energy instead of flaring it.

For example, Iraq could meet all its electricity needs from that gas, but instead it is being flared, and lots of people there don't have adequate electricity. And we Americans also flare a lot of gas. I remember driving by such flaring, thinking, why don't they turn it into energy?

See: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...siness+News%29
__________________
"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
-- St. Francis of Assisi

"I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth."
-- St. Therese of the Child Jesus
  #150  
Old May 3, '12, 12:04 pm
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Join Date: May 20, 2010
Posts: 2,884
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: How can we mitigate global warming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
Don't worry about it!! Just do as Jesus says and obey the Commandments of God. Everything else will be taken care of by our Creator. God says so! We are but dust and unto dust we will return. We are so arrogant as to think that we can change the wind! Only the Creator has charge of this earth and the whole universe. Let us keep perspective.
I totally agree. And I also have thought (since I was a kid) that Americans are totally off the Christian track. And if you add in the environmental harms we are doing, extremely off. America is not a Christian nation by any stretch of the imagination. It is an Ayn Rand, atheist (at heart, if not in our facade), vulture capitalist nation. Money is our god. 3 low bows of obeisance to our money-god: salami, salami, baloney.

And then there is the matter of our arrogance that would make Lucifer blush.

The root of our environmental harms is our refusal to follow Jesus.

So all we have to do is become Christian. That would be a 360 degree about-face. But to be more charitable, I think it was a slow, almost unconscious divergence that just became further and further away from the path of Jesus over the centuries, without us hardly noticing it. And so many people actually think they are doing God's will when they are so far from it. (At least I know I am not doing God's will by writing so roughly and frankly here -- give me your grace, God.)

Despite the fact that we are sons & daughters of Adam and Eve, and bear the mark of Cain, there is hope in Jesus.

The trick is to turn to him and fling ourselves into his awaiting arms, and he will show us the way, and lead us on like a shepherd.

A very humble and holy priest in our old parish once said during a homily: In our deepest self is an altar, and on that altar is our ego, which we worship. We have to knock our ego off that altar and put Jesus there.
__________________
"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
-- St. Francis of Assisi

"I want to spend my Heaven doing good on Earth."
-- St. Therese of the Child Jesus
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