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  #31  
Old Mar 23, '12, 6:38 am
Cat Cat is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsTalk237 View Post
It's always funny everytime I hear that from a non-denominational attendee.

But then where do they all meet in??? A Church!!

Second of all, I'm pretty sure that it says in the bible that Jesus built our church.
Actually, there are quite a few non-denominational Christians who do not meet in a church.

There is a fairly sizeable home-church movement, in which small groups of Christians meet in homes. Sometimes a "pastor" is involved, and sometimes the group meets without a designated pastor, just allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the meeting.

There are also a lot of families who use a "family church" model in which the father is the pastor, and his wife and children are his flock/congregation.

We know non-Catholic Christians who are involved in both of these forms of fellowship.
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  #32  
Old Mar 23, '12, 9:49 am
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgar View Post
I was under the impression that the Holy Spirit was involved somehow.
Yes in the process of canonization which the church produced the canons for the OT & NT. Just because those writings existed before 400 A.D. does not support or prove an iota of the Bible-Alone. And why? Because many other writings existed and why aren't they in our current Bibles?
  #33  
Old Mar 23, '12, 9:53 am
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englishredrose englishredrose is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

as i know myself

its so easy to be angry isn't it.
  #34  
Old Mar 23, '12, 12:02 pm
Diana Catherine Diana Catherine is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat View Post
Actually, there are quite a few non-denominational Christians who do not meet in a church.

There is a fairly sizeable home-church movement, in which small groups of Christians meet in homes. Sometimes a "pastor" is involved, and sometimes the group meets without a designated pastor, just allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the meeting.

There are also a lot of families who use a "family church" model in which the father is the pastor, and his wife and children are his flock/congregation.

We know non-Catholic Christians who are involved in both of these forms of fellowship.
That is true. There are many home-churches and family churches which because of being unknown or very private do not show up in the count when counting protestant churches.

The home-churches are started by many who have not yet come home to the Catholic church but are finding much discouragement in the protestant churches and as one person put it the thought behind it is - no one else is getting it right out there maybe I can figure this out myself at home.

I have met those who belonged to home churches, too and after a while they came home to the Catholic church.
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  #35  
Old Mar 23, '12, 1:08 pm
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Deconi Deconi is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
Last night I went to a Lenten series at an Episcopal church. That is the American versionof the CofE.

It was based on a video of Anglican bishop T J Wright and that was OK. But the discussion following was bad and and made me angry.

They were angry about the Catholic rules about Holy Communion.
Apparently Episcopalians will give the Eucharist to anyone who comes to the rail,and they hated the close communion of the Catholic church.

Several defied our rules and recieved communion anyway.

How was that respect?
(Emphasis mine)
It is fortunate then that this 'version' of Holy Communion is NOT real in the literal sense, for as the vociferous Paul points out, partaking in the Lord's supper unworthily is 'death.'

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  #36  
Old Mar 23, '12, 2:19 pm
JonNC JonNC is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
=Ron_Obvious;9098413]
The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are "caught up in this system", and "the system isn't going to save you". "dont need a church, just a relationship". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wasn't really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn't take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.
It is always curious to me how folks say they don't need "a" church, as The Church is quite scriptural. Certainly, his attacks on Lutherans and Anglicans probably has as much to do with his rejection of confession and the other sacraments as anything else.

Jon
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“This also is certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages, for it is clearly written in 2 Peter 1:20: ‘The Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation.’
"The best reader of the Scripture, according to Hilary, is one who does not bring the understanding of what is said to the Scripture but who carries it away from the Scripture. "
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  #37  
Old Mar 23, '12, 4:32 pm
pablope pablope is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgar View Post
Just want to point out that all the books of the Bible existed and were in use before the year 400, as you say.
As with about 200 plus other writings that did not make it to the canon. Keep in mind too, Calgar...that for the first 300 yrs, the Church was primarily on the run because of the Roman persecution.

The writings could not be gathered in one place, there was no printing press, copies had to be handcopied, no paper as you know it today and papyrus was expensive, not everyone can read, and not a lot could write, either.

Some of the writings that did not make it to the canon were considered scripture...but did not make it to the final canon.


Here is a list of Early writings....and can you, as an early christian, know which should be in the bible:


http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
  #38  
Old Mar 23, '12, 4:34 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Anna that particular parish has had many problems. The rector I grew up with was Anglo-Catholic and there over 30 years. The parish was in an aging part of town where no-one wanted to live or go. So he started a chapel of ease, two chrurches he was both over.

When he retired all hell broke loose a new rector was named who refused to go to the original church, canceled all sunday masses there, and moved the parish offices to the church in the new money area.

After several interims another rector, female, was hand picked by the Sr Warden who was the richest man in the parrish and maybe the city. They soon were married by the bishop no less, after a few short years she moved off to Berkely to get her DST degree. And there were more interims and each time the parish lost members.

The priest in charge there now was raised Church of Nazarene, all traces of anglo catholicism are long gone. I left the EC years ago.

This area always conservative has gone from conservative (I am conservative) to radical.
Many of the former members have gone to Christ Church, a schismatic denomination that calls it'self "anglican".

With all the political fights going on and the ignoring of the holy Gospels, I grieve for my former church.
  #39  
Old Mar 24, '12, 11:12 am
peace2u2 peace2u2 is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Obvious View Post
Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are "caught up in this system", and "the system isn't going to save you". "dont need a church, just a relationship". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wasn't really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn't take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn't out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this
Yes, you should have been upset.

Maybe you should write this Pastor of this church a letter stating the same things you mention in your post.

It would have been very powerful if you did get up and walked out. I suppose if you took off your shoes and slapped them together as you left, that would have been powerful also. But, probably not very Christ-like.

So, I think the letter is a good idea telling the pastor of that church that you were very offended by his remarks and if that is what he is teaching in his church, then you will not be returning and instead, you will be running with open arms back to the Catholic Church!

I have to tell you that awhile back, I kept receiving in the mail literature from a church that called themselves un-denominational. I was offended by their pamphlet on Baptism which critized the churches that baptize infants. I sent their church a letter telling them I was offended and sent a couple of articles backing up Infant Baptism with Sacred Scripture. I mentioned to them that who are they to decide who and when should be baptized? Wouldn't that be discriminating against someone because of their age? And as a parent of an infant, isn't it my right to have my infant child baptized because I want to, as their first teacher, teach them about who Jesus is and for them to know and love Him?

As far as their claims as "age of reason". Well, we do have an age of reason in the Catholic Church. At around the age of 7, our Catholic children, after 2 years of religious instruction, make their First Holy Communion and receive Jesus by the means of the Holy Eucharist. And then again after religious instruction, are anointed with Chrism and with the Laying on of Hands by the Bishop receive the Gifts of the Holy Spirit around age 13. Baptism, Eucharist and Confirmation form a unity. And, once Confirmed, Baptism is complete.
  #40  
Old Mar 24, '12, 11:28 am
peace2u2 peace2u2 is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
Last night I went to a Lenten series at an Episcopal church. That is the American versionof the CofE.

It was based on a video of Anglican bishop T J Wright and that was OK. But the discussion following was bad and and made me angry.

They were angry about the Catholic rules about Holy Communion.
Apparently Episcopalians will give the Eucharist to anyone who comes to the rail,and they hated the close communion of the Catholic church.

Several defied our rules and recieved communion anyway.

How was that respect?
It was very disrespectful.

I attended a non-denominational Bible study a few years ago and someone made a comment (I forget what we were discussing) but said how they hate when those of the "Eastern" Church alway talk about God like He is just theirs when they refer to God in their conversation and prayer by saying "He is Our Lord and Savior", He is our God, etc.

I couldn't quite understand what point they were trying to make as don't we all refer to Him like that when we pray or if we are talking to someone about God? I just pointed out that perhaps a reading of Romans was in order and we should just let God do the judging?

In any event, I was offended because I am Catholic, and those she was insulting are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I left the Bible study shortly after my Infant Baptism was insulted and told that it was just a sprinkling and that in order to be baptized I had to be immersed in water! Really, now they know whether or not God considers me His child?
  #41  
Old Mar 24, '12, 3:20 pm
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converting2024 converting2024 is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

[quote=7 Sorrows;9101395]i once went to a seminar being held in our small city about end times. at first i didn't know it was being put on by the 7th day adventists. the seminar lasted several weeks.
there were a few other catholics from my church who were also attending. i won one of their Bibles in a raffle they held each week. the seminar was interesting until we got to John Hus and then the Catholic bashing began. and it didn't stop. i was pretty shocked and angered. the man leading the seminar knew there were Catholics in attendance because we had to fill out a form. these people were nice and i have heard of anti-Catholicism, but this was the first time i ever sat somewhere and had the man saying so many bad things about the Catholic church. none of us walked out. we were all women.
one woman never went back. another woman's father had been a 7th Day Adventist and she continued to come. i stayed away for a week or two, but returned for the last night.
i was curious i guess. anyhow, there was no way i was going to join and i really didn't even feel like i got an answer about the end times.
i have never been to a protestant service that bashes the Catholic church. i agree with the poster who said that a polite e-mail might be sent to the pastor. i haven't really attended many protestant churches though. i grew up in the episcopal church and didn't attend church for many years.[


7th day adventists as well as the Mormon and Jehovah's Witness "churches" are actually considered cults based on their heretical views of scripture. Even most of the mainstream Protestant churches view them as such. Focusing on the end of times is a waste of energy that could be used for evangelizing. Jesus tells us that it is not He, nor the choirs of angels but only the Father in Heaven who knows the time and date of the end of times. We must always be ready. I, for one, would love to be alive for the second coming.
  #42  
Old Mar 24, '12, 10:36 pm
Lochias Lochias is offline
 
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgar View Post
I was under the impression that the Holy Spirit was involved somehow.
Certainly, in the Church that Jesus Christ started for mankind. The Church decided which of those texts should make up the Bible as we know it, guided by prayer and the Holy Spirit. Elegant, no?

And, I don't take most invites to other services outside of the Church. Once or twice I have, with friends that I've trusted, but even that was before I started digging deeper into the core of my own faith.
  #43  
Old Mar 24, '12, 11:10 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Obvious View Post
Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are "caught up in this system", and "the system isn't going to save you". "dont need a church, just a relationship". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wasn't really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn't take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn't out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this
You may not know this but the Pastor is often told of the "sins" or "issues" of the group that he is addressing. Many others may have invited Catholics to the meeting and the Pastor then gears the message to them. Sometimes people in the audience believe God is speaking to them because the Pastor hits notes that resonate with people like you and in this case caused you to be upset.

I would have gone to the pastor and said this....

Pastor...you believe in Jesus and love Jesus do you not? Yes

Pastor Jesus gave his life for the Church...do you agree....Yes

Pastor, the Church is the bride of Christ...Yes

Pastor do you agree that Christ is the same today, yesterday and tommorrow? Yes
Pastor do you believe that if the body of Christ is the Church, The Church is the Bride of Christ and Christ cannot change then the Church cannot change...do you agree with that?

Then say...Pastor...I read in the Bible, Romans that the wrath of God is revealed for those that suppress the truth...do you believe that...wait...and then

Pastor I don't believe that what you say is true...and then leave.
  #44  
Old Mar 25, '12, 11:10 am
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Anna Scott Anna Scott is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
Last night I went to a Lenten series at an Episcopal church. That is the American versionof the CofE.

It was based on a video of Anglican bishop T J Wright and that was OK. But the discussion following was bad and and made me angry.

They were angry about the Catholic rules about Holy Communion.
Apparently Episcopalians will give the Eucharist to anyone who comes to the rail,and they hated the close communion of the Catholic church.

Several defied our rules and recieved communion anyway.

How was that respect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Scott View Post
andrewstx,

That is very disrespectful and taking Communion in a deceitful manner is spiritually dangerous for those who do so.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. Not all Episcopalians are like those you encountered. Our Anglo Catholic Rector speaks of Catholicism with respect; even quotes Popes and Catholic authors in his lessons and sermons from time to time. He also quotes Orthodox writers and incorporates Orthodox prayers.

In reading through current threads about people visiting Churches; it seems there are a lot of angry Christians. Not sure what is going on. When Christians attack and fight with other Christians, our witness and call to spread the Gospel suffers. Whatever happened to "love one another"? Seems to have gone out of style.

Peace,
Anna
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewstx View Post
Anna that particular parish has had many problems. The rector I grew up with was Anglo-Catholic and there over 30 years. The parish was in an aging part of town where no-one wanted to live or go. So he started a chapel of ease, two chrurches he was both over.

When he retired all hell broke loose a new rector was named who refused to go to the original church, canceled all sunday masses there, and moved the parish offices to the church in the new money area.

After several interims another rector, female, was hand picked by the Sr Warden who was the richest man in the parrish and maybe the city. They soon were married by the bishop no less, after a few short years she moved off to Berkely to get her DST degree. And there were more interims and each time the parish lost members.

The priest in charge there now was raised Church of Nazarene, all traces of anglo catholicism are long gone. I left the EC years ago.

This area always conservative has gone from conservative (I am conservative) to radical.
Many of the former members have gone to Christ Church, a schismatic denomination that calls it'self "anglican".

With all the political fights going on and the ignoring of the holy Gospels, I grieve for my former church.
andrewstx,

This is such a tragic turn of events, and I'm sure it does grieve your heart. My goodness--30 years under the leadership of an Anglo Catholic Rector, and it has now come to this?

What you've demonstrated here is how quickly a Parish can be hijacked.

People wonder what has happened to The Episcopal Church. It has been hijacked in similar ways. Once a departure from orthodoxy slips in, the leadership positions can be hijacked so fast, you are left stunned. Orthodox Anglicans are pushed out and leave. More liberals pour in from both churched and unchurched populations. And before you know it, TEC is unrecognizable and the Anglican Communion is compromised.

Our current Rector is also Anglo Catholic. Our Parish is conservative and the Gospel is truthfully and faithfully proclaimed. However, I know that everything could change, if he were to leave. Some of us are already making "contingency" plans. And of course, I'm still here on this Catholic forum.

Peace,
Anna
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  #45  
Old Mar 25, '12, 6:42 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: Protestant service last night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Scott View Post
andrewstx,

This is such a tragic turn of events, and I'm sure it does grieve your heart. My goodness--30 years under the leadership of an Anglo Catholic Rector, and it has now come to this?

What you've demonstrated here is how quickly a Parish can be hijacked.

People wonder what has happened to The Episcopal Church. It has been hijacked in similar ways. Once a departure from orthodoxy slips in, the leadership positions can be hijacked so fast, you are left stunned. Orthodox Anglicans are pushed out and leave. More liberals pour in from both churched and unchurched populations. And before you know it, TEC is unrecognizable and the Anglican Communion is compromised.

Our current Rector is also Anglo Catholic. Our Parish is conservative and the Gospel is truthfully and faithfully proclaimed. However, I know that everything could change, if he were to leave. Some of us are already making "contingency" plans. And of course, I'm still here on this Catholic forum.



And please do remain. When Fr Hungerford retired a mess ensued. He was cradle Episcopal and orthodox.

His succesors were all converts from Evanglical protestant chruches. The woman was originally campbellite DofC and she had a unique way of doing Mass, instead of communing herself first she would give the host to communion ministers,and they would give holy communion to the altar boys and girls and congrgation as she was seated.

At the very last she would recieve communion from one of the Eucharstic ministers-lay readers. She was a social climber and likely a closet lesbian, she got her millions from the Sr Warden and then took off to Berkely. I'm sure she fit in there.

But it all shows that TEC is more social than spiritual. And the churchmanship can and does change instantly



Peace,
Anna
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