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  #616  
Old May 6, '12, 11:53 am
Al Moritz Al Moritz is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by Et Cetera View Post
Furthermore, I really dislike how much the Church intertwines with politics, particularly in regard to its ties with the Republican Party. Because the GOP is "pro-life" I feel that many people think that they must not only be "pro-life," but that they must also be staunch GOP supporters. In regard to the poor, I believe that the Democrats are more sympathetic and have policies that are more helpful to the plight of the underprivileged. The Republican ties (which run very deep on this forum) make me wary. I've seen logic go out the window so that people can remain faithful to right. Both parties have their good and bad people, policies, etc., and I wish that there could be more acknowledgment of that. I think I've been seeing a bit of greediness sneak its way into this religion, by way of the GOP. There seems to be this overwhelming idea that we are all starting from a level playing field and that if everyone puts in the same amount of work, then he or she can achieve the same level of success as someone who was born into a privileged family. There seems to be a lack of empathy for poor and minority groups, and I think that stems from the GOP, which has made its way to Catholicism through the party's "pro-life" stance.
I agree with all of this, and I am shocked and appalled at the hard-heartedness of quite a number of Catholics on this board when it comes to defending the GOP at any cost, just because it is "pro-life".
  #617  
Old May 6, '12, 2:15 pm
CatholicBoy1957 CatholicBoy1957 is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

Today's readings (click) are about lapsed and fallen away Catholics!

Here's a tough line for you all:

Quote:
He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit,
Or this one:

Quote:
people will gather them and throw them into a fire
__________________
The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth.
  #618  
Old May 6, '12, 5:17 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by ishii View Post
Cmatt, why do you insist on pushing some myth that the Church tells us to eat lobster and scallops on Friday instead of an 89 cent burger? Why do you always present false choices then wrongly imply that the Church supports that false choice? Your post is very misleading.

Ishii
Ishii, I am not pushing any such thing. I never said the Church tells you to eat lobster and scallops. But if you do She certainly doesn't tell you it is breaking abstinance law. Yet if you eat the 89 cent burger as a sacrifice She says you are wrong.
  #619  
Old May 6, '12, 5:22 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

Ah sure we're not back with your beloved cheapie burger are we CMatt? I remember when that popped up before.
  #620  
Old May 6, '12, 6:33 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
Ah sure we're not back with your beloved cheapie burger are we CMatt? I remember when that popped up before.
JHarek, I actually skipped the 89 cent one today and splurged on a more expensive burger today. Single with cheese, lettuce, tomato, pickle, onion, mayo and XTRA catsup. Of course it was a Sunday non Lenten dinner.
  #621  
Old May 6, '12, 6:38 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by CMatt25 View Post
JHarek, I don't know if you have Wendy's over there but I actually skipped the Mickey D's 89 cent one and had a more expensive burger today. Single with cheese, lettuce, tomato, pickle, onion, mayo and XTRA catsup. Of course it was a Sunday non Lenten dinner.
We used to have Wendys. Then McDonalds bought them out and closed them all down and replaced the Wendys stores with McDonalds. Which irked me no end as Wendys was far better.
  #622  
Old May 6, '12, 6:45 pm
ringil ringil is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by CMatt25 View Post
So the politics espoused on this forum and in what I fear the greater Church at large today is a huge turn off to me as well.

God bless you along your journey and peace be with you always.
I don't see this in the larger Church. This espousement with Conservative politics is just CAF, though many here would like it to represent the larger Church. It certainly isn't representative of the worldwide church.
__________________
To those with only hammers everything looks like a nail.

"tough love thy neighbor as thyself. Get your own loaves and fishes!"- Stephen Colbert
  #623  
Old May 6, '12, 6:47 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

Indeed, many of the political stances taken here at times are alien to me and I imagine mine is equally alien to them. At times I have found the distinction between the American republican political party and Catholicism to be dangerously blurred here at CAF over the years I have been here. However it is amongst the more civilised of the religious forums I've ever used which is why I stick with the forum.
  #624  
Old May 6, '12, 6:54 pm
ringil ringil is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
Indeed, many of the political stances taken here at times are alien to me and I imagine mine is equally alien to them. At times I have found the distinction between the American republican political party and Catholicism to be dangerously blurred here at CAF over the years I have been here. However it is amongst the more civilised of the religious forums I've ever used which is why I stick with the forum.
Good point,

There is also a flirtation with evangelical protestantism around here which can be seen in posts. There is biblical literalism, an embracing of the Potestant work ethic, and even a kind of national isolationalsim, which isn't Catholic in perspective at all.
__________________
To those with only hammers everything looks like a nail.

"tough love thy neighbor as thyself. Get your own loaves and fishes!"- Stephen Colbert
  #625  
Old May 6, '12, 7:03 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by ringil View Post
I don't see this in the larger Church. This espousement with Conservative politics is just CAF, though many here would like it to represent the larger Church. It certainly isn't representative of the worldwide church.
Ringil, I pray you are right and my fear of where the Church and Her clergy are going politically is unfounded. I probably do allow CAF to influence me too much. But do you think it might depend too on the region of America or of the world someone lives in? I for instance still just can't get out of my mind a priest in my locale a couple of yrs ago during the recession, saying in a homily that his answer to the poor is to get a job. That just left me in complete shock and I nearly walked out of the weekday Mass I had attended that day. If it hadn't been for me specifically attending that day in remembrance of my mother, I honestly think I would have. At another parish a few election cycles ago I recall the priest making it clear those of us in the pews should vote for the Republican candidate for POTUS. It had to do with the abortion issue. Which I suppose is also why I sometimes have the feeling I do about the Church and politics today. Because that single issue just seems to permeate and encompass every aspect of Catholic political thought nowadays. It along to perhaps a lesser degree homosexuality issues. But anyway btw FWIW you're one of those though who I find who does not push others away. God bless you and peace.

Last edited by CMatt25; May 6, '12 at 7:17 pm.
  #626  
Old May 6, '12, 7:14 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by ringil View Post
Good point,

There is also a flirtation with evangelical protestantism around here which can be seen in posts. There is biblical literalism, an embracing of the Potestant work ethic, and even a kind of national isolationalsim, which isn't Catholic in perspective at all.
Yes I've noted that, particularly when it comes to popular media. I often see echoes of the 'Dungeons and Dragons are demonic' moral perils of latter years carried over from fundamentalism at times. The isolationism and attempts to present variations on manifest destiny have not escaped my notion. I find this odd as for me it is a matter of my faith first and then my nation and if pushed to choose I'd choose the former over the latter as one is eternal and the other not.
  #627  
Old May 6, '12, 7:16 pm
CatholicBoy1957 CatholicBoy1957 is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

There are plenty of people here that push me away. They push me away from heterodox, unfaithful Catholicism.
__________________
The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth.
  #628  
Old May 6, '12, 7:19 pm
JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by CatholicBoy1957 View Post
There are plenty of people here that push me away. They push me away from heterodox, unfaithful Catholicism.
Might it not be better for us to try and attract them to Orthodox and faithful Catholicism by trying to explain why they are wrong. I know that can be hard at times when people attempt to defend the indefensible and I do not always succeed in been the best example of explaining to them calmly why their reasoning is flawed. But one lost sheep won back is worth the effort.
  #629  
Old May 6, '12, 7:20 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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Originally Posted by CatholicBoy1957 View Post
There are plenty of people here that push me away. They push me away from heterodox, unfaithful Catholicism.
I'm glad you have found peace at where you are on your faith journey. God bless you always.
  #630  
Old May 6, '12, 7:23 pm
ringil ringil is offline
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Default Re: Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMatt25 View Post
Ringil, I pray you are right and my fear of where the Church and Her clergy are going politically is unfounded. I probably do allow CAF to influence me too much. But do you think it might depend too on the region of America or of the world someone lives in? I for instance still just can't get out of my mind a priest in my locale a couple of yrs ago during the recession, saying in a homily that his answer to the poor is to get a job. That just left me in complete shock and I nearly walked out of the weekday Mass I had attended that day. If it hadn't been for me specifically attending that day in remembrance of my mother, I honestly think I would have. At another parish a few election cycles ago I recall the priest making it clear those of us in the pews should vote for the Republican candidate for POTUS. But anyway btw FWIW you're one of those though who I find who does not push others away. God bless you and peace.
Regarding the attitudes found here on CAF; I feel that only those with a certain amount of intensity regarding religion will post on a forum and this tends to shape attitudes. The internet seems to be a new and popular tool for the Right- and the Left for that matter. But overall, more intense people will participate in internet discussions.

Many, many posters around here come from TX and other states in the midwest- which tend to be more conservative. I've actually wondered, before, why so many folks are from TX around here. It's wild- check it out some time.

I'm sorry for your experience in church as that priest sounded a bit off course. Even a politically Conservative Priest is going to know better than to talk that way in a homily.

Looking around CAF you will see many thoughtful posts from Europeans, which give a much better picture of the worldwide Church.

In short: CAF isn't normal in some ways. Here are examples of more "out there" ideas you will read:

The Earth is 6000 years old.
Women should not work outside of the home.
Defense of the Confederacy during the Civil War era.
The Civil Rights movement wasn't neccessarily a good thing.
The Crusades were a glorious and holy endeavor.
Franco wasn't "that bad of a guy".
Hitler was a left winger.
Creationism should be taught in public schools.
The rich are more virtuous than the poor (a recent thread)
Weather patterns and celestial events are indicating that the Second Coming is near.

Just a few examples to show how CAF, though useful in many ways, should not be seen as an accurate picture of the Catholic Church.
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"tough love thy neighbor as thyself. Get your own loaves and fishes!"- Stephen Colbert
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