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  #1  
Old Mar 27, '12, 9:34 pm
Annalexander Annalexander is offline
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Default Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Hi

I was raised by Syro Malabar parents but was baptized in Delhi in the Roman Catholic church as there was no Syro Malabar Diocese at the time. I have never attended mass in a Syro Malabar church; grew up attending English mass in a Roman Catholic church. Now I am in the US and a Syro Malabar mission has been established near where I live. I feel my spiritual needs are not being met by going there as I can't read or write Malayalam although can speak though not fluently. I studied in a convent school in Delhi hence my catechism etc was also in English. My husband is a Syro Malabar Catholic as well and does not mind going for mass there but much prefers the English mass in the local Roman Catholic church as he too left Kerala after high school and attended only Roman Catholic mass in North India. We both feel our spiritual needs are not being met by attending the Malayalam mass. We socialize with everybody that goes for mass at the Syro Malabar mission and therefore feel awkward not going there. Going for both masses is not an option due to lack of time. We don't have children so catechism is not an issue.
All opinions are welcome.
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  #2  
Old Mar 27, '12, 9:45 pm
alwynmd alwynmd is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

It should be perfectly fine attending mass in the Roman Catholic Church where you understand everything that is being said and can participate well during the services. The Roman Catholic mass is complete in all respects and that should fulfill your spiritual needs. For other cultural purposes you may freely mingle with people who are from your origin.
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  #3  
Old Mar 28, '12, 4:34 am
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John of Patmos John of Patmos is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalexander View Post
Hi

I was raised by Syro Malabar parents but was baptized in Delhi in the Roman Catholic church as there was no Syro Malabar Diocese at the time. I have never attended mass in a Syro Malabar church; grew up attending English mass in a Roman Catholic church. Now I am in the US and a Syro Malabar mission has been established near where I live. I feel my spiritual needs are not being met by going there as I can't read or write Malayalam although can speak though not fluently. I studied in a convent school in Delhi hence my catechism etc was also in English. My husband is a Syro Malabar Catholic as well and does not mind going for mass there but much prefers the English mass in the local Roman Catholic church as he too left Kerala after high school and attended only Roman Catholic mass in North India. We both feel our spiritual needs are not being met by attending the Malayalam mass. We socialize with everybody that goes for mass at the Syro Malabar mission and therefore feel awkward not going there. Going for both masses is not an option due to lack of time. We don't have children so catechism is not an issue.
All opinions are welcome.
Some of this depends on what rite you are canonically. Can anyone here help out? I don't know what jurisdiction she would be in...
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  #4  
Old Mar 28, '12, 4:58 am
The Idiot The Idiot is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

John of P

You have to understand that Catholic is Catholic is Catholic whether it's UGCC , Syro Malabar , Ruthenian , Russian Catholic or anything else.

They are all sui juris Churches and are in full Communion with Rome.

As long as there are not likely to be problems of marriage or Ordination ANY Catholic can attend services in ANY Catholic Church and receive the Sacraments in them as long as they are in able to do so [ ie not in mortal sin or excommunicated ]

Hope this helps the OP and also your understanding of the situation
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  #5  
Old Mar 28, '12, 6:27 am
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Canonically the OP would belong to the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church since her parents were/are both Syro-Malabar; unless at least her father canonically switched to Roman Catholicism prior to her baptism.

That being said, she is not required to attend a Syro-Malabar Church (although it is strongly encouraged by Rome), and is free to attend a Roman Catholic parish if she feels she is being spiritually fed there more than at the Syro-Malabar parish. However, to the OP I would point out that unless at least your husband officially makes the canonical change over to Roman Catholicism, all your children will be considered Syro-Malabar, even if baptized at a Roman parish. The children are always automatically enrolled in the sui-iuris Church of their father. For example, although my children have been baptized, chrismated, and communicated in a Melkite parish, according to the Melkite traditions, they are still Roman Catholic "on the books" because I am currently still Roman Catholic (working on becoming Melkite).

I hope this makes some sense.
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  #6  
Old Mar 28, '12, 6:30 am
Phillip Rolfes Phillip Rolfes is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalexander View Post
Hi

I was raised by Syro Malabar parents but was baptized in Delhi in the Roman Catholic church as there was no Syro Malabar Diocese at the time. I have never attended mass in a Syro Malabar church; grew up attending English mass in a Roman Catholic church. Now I am in the US and a Syro Malabar mission has been established near where I live. I feel my spiritual needs are not being met by going there as I can't read or write Malayalam although can speak though not fluently. I studied in a convent school in Delhi hence my catechism etc was also in English. My husband is a Syro Malabar Catholic as well and does not mind going for mass there but much prefers the English mass in the local Roman Catholic church as he too left Kerala after high school and attended only Roman Catholic mass in North India. We both feel our spiritual needs are not being met by attending the Malayalam mass. We socialize with everybody that goes for mass at the Syro Malabar mission and therefore feel awkward not going there. Going for both masses is not an option due to lack of time. We don't have children so catechism is not an issue.
All opinions are welcome.
I would speak to the pastor of your Syro-Malabar parish and see if there's anything he can do, or if perhaps he has some words of wisdom to guide you. Is it possible for your pastor to begin incorporating English into the Liturgy? Is this something that is permitted in the Syro-Malabar Church? Perhaps that would be a way to start. Or perhaps you could find a good English translation of the Syro-Malabar Liturgy for your own edification and so that you can attempt to follow along during the Liturgy? Those are just a couple of thoughts that immediately spring to mind.
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  #7  
Old Mar 28, '12, 7:11 am
Hesychios Hesychios is offline
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Smile Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Sadly, this seems the ultimate destiny of the diaspora church.

Particularly sad that it should happen within India for Syro-Malabar Christians, but here we have an excellent example of how the subsequent generations are lost because of language. The RC is willing able to provide Mass in the vernacular wherever it serves, all too often the eastern churches focus on serving the current migrant population and the children and grandchildren of these same people are not well served by this pastoral practice.

The young drift away, and the future of the eastern church is ultimately in doubt.
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  #8  
Old Mar 28, '12, 7:31 am
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Elizium23 Elizium23 is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

I would venture to say that your spiritual needs are being met at the Syro-Malabar liturgy. Being unable to understand the language does not prevent us from assisting at the Perfect Sacrifice of the Eucharist. You receive Holy Communion in either church, you receive the same graces no matter what rite!

Imagine if the spiritual needs of millions of Catholics were neglected for thousands of years. This was not so, even though the Latin Rite Mass has been in Latin and the Extraordinary Form continues to be offered to this day. It is perfectly acceptable to go to Confession in a foreign land where you cannot understand the priest, and the priest cannot understand you; you receive the same absolution and you attain the same state of grace.

Granted, there are some drawbacks to not understanding the langauge. But it doesn't seem like an unattainable goal for you, you say you already understand some Malayalam. Would it be possible to follow along with a pew book if you don't already? Possible to study the language at home or be tutored by someone else in your community?

I really think you should stay with your community if at all possible, given the pessimistic view above by Hesychios, we need good people in the Eastern Churches keeping the patrimony alive, not to abandon them and flee to the West. I would be personally disappointed if even one small Eastern Church does not survive.
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  #9  
Old Mar 28, '12, 11:29 am
Annalexander Annalexander is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Thank you for all the diverse responses. I will talk to the pastor about my dilemma. Unfortunately, like many other Syro Malabar priests that I have met, he seems obsessed with denigrating the RC church, catechism in RC church and the supposedly inferior quality of services at a RC church. I need a compelling reason to try very hard to follow the mass other than the need to keep Eastern traditions and rites alive. After all, I don't even live anymore in the land of origin. Maybe, the priest could explain for the benefit of people like me and most of the youngsters the significance of some of the rituals that are different from those of RC. I agree with one of the members that the Eastern Churches need to focus on catering to the youngsters and people like me who were not raised in the Eastern tradition and the importance of keeping it alive, or these churches will be lost. I too feel a catholic is a catholic is a catholic with some common core beliefs and values. Raised in a cosmopolitan metropolis such as New Delhi, I met people from all over the world and from all over India at the RC church I attended. I did not feel in anyway spiritually deprived but might have missed out on some traditions especially around Christmas, Lent and Easter.
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  #10  
Old Apr 4, '12, 12:37 pm
BVT BVT is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Sadly, this seems the ultimate destiny of the diaspora church.
Particularly sad that it should happen within India for Syro-Malabar Christians, but here we have an excellent example of how the subsequent generations are lost because of language. The RC is willing able to provide Mass in the vernacular wherever it serves, all too often the eastern churches focus on serving the current migrant population and the children and grandchildren of these same people are not well served by this pastoral practice.

The young drift away, and the future of the eastern church is ultimately in doubt.

Mar Thoma Sleeha Syro-Malabar Cathedral-Syro-Malabar Cathedral in Bellwood, IL is the Diocesan Cathedral of St. Thomas Syro-Malabar Catholic Diocese of Chicago.
We have holy masses in English and Malayalam on Sundays with a full church. We also have Catechism, Malayalam languages classes for children on Sundays.

Vicar: Fr. Joy Alappat Assistant Vicar Fr. Emmanuel Madukkakuzhy
Year Founded: 1985 Website: http://smchicago.org
Families: 1280 CCD Students: 828
Phone: 708-544-6419 Fax: 708-544-5890

http://www.stthomasdiocese.org/paris...cago-cathedral



HOLY MASS-SUNDAY 10:00 A.M. at Maywood and Morton Grove and 5:30 P.M. at Morton Grove.
Syro-Malabar English Mass at 11:40 A.M. at Maywood and Morton Grove.

http://www.knanayaregion.us/chicago/



"Trisagion" from Solemn High Mass of the Syro-Malabar Church (English)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6L3OooDMCw
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  #11  
Old Apr 4, '12, 12:38 pm
BVT BVT is offline
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Default Syro malabar Hindi Mass For the Mission Diocese of bijnor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxAW3MnM6HY
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  #12  
Old Apr 4, '12, 12:46 pm
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John of Patmos John of Patmos is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

I brought up what sui iruis church you are part of because that may influence what fasts and feasts you most observe...
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  #13  
Old Apr 4, '12, 5:09 pm
Hesychios Hesychios is offline
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Smile Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVT View Post
Mar Thoma Sleeha Syro-Malabar Cathedral-Syro-Malabar Cathedral in Bellwood, IL is the Diocesan Cathedral of St. Thomas Syro-Malabar Catholic Diocese of Chicago.
We have holy masses in English and Malayalam on Sundays with a full church. We also have Catechism, Malayalam languages classes for children on Sundays.

Vicar: Fr. Joy Alappat Assistant Vicar Fr. Emmanuel Madukkakuzhy
Year Founded: 1985 Website: http://smchicago.org
Families: 1280 CCD Students: 828
Phone: 708-544-6419 Fax: 708-544-5890

http://www.stthomasdiocese.org/paris...cago-cathedral



HOLY MASS-SUNDAY 10:00 A.M. at Maywood and Morton Grove and 5:30 P.M. at Morton Grove.
Syro-Malabar English Mass at 11:40 A.M. at Maywood and Morton Grove.
I am aware of this, especially since I live and work in the vicinity, but by reports of the original poster the church is not using the vernacular in that part of India.

This is all too common in the diaspora of the eastern churches in general.

The cathedral of the Syro-Malaber church in the USA is to be commended for these efforts, an example all others should follow, but sadly might not (until perhaps it is too late).
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  #14  
Old Apr 5, '12, 5:22 am
couponfit couponfit is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Sadly, this seems the ultimate destiny of the diaspora church.

Particularly sad that it should happen within India for Syro-Malabar Christians, but here we have an excellent example of how the subsequent generations are lost because of language. The RC is willing able to provide Mass in the vernacular wherever it serves, all too often the eastern churches focus on serving the current migrant population and the children and grandchildren of these same people are not well served by this pastoral practice.

The young drift away, and the future of the eastern church is ultimately in doubt.
It wasn't that long ago that rc was in Latin. The eastern have and continue mass in native dialect.
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  #15  
Old Apr 5, '12, 5:26 am
couponfit couponfit is offline
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Default Re: Can't understand Malayalam mass in Syro Malabar church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annalexander View Post
Thank you for all the diverse responses. I will talk to the pastor about my dilemma. Unfortunately, like many other Syro Malabar priests that I have met, he seems obsessed with denigrating the RC church, catechism in RC church and the supposedly inferior quality of services at a RC church. I need a compelling reason to try very hard to follow the mass other than the need to keep Eastern traditions and rites alive. After all, I don't even live anymore in the land of origin. Maybe, the priest could explain for the benefit of people like me and most of the youngsters the significance of some of the rituals that are different from those of RC. I agree with one of the members that the Eastern Churches need to focus on catering to the youngsters and people like me who were not raised in the Eastern tradition and the importance of keeping it alive, or these churches will be lost. I too feel a catholic is a catholic is a catholic with some common core beliefs and values. Raised in a cosmopolitan metropolis such as New Delhi, I met people from all over the world and from all over India at the RC church I attended. I did not feel in anyway spiritually deprived but might have missed out on some traditions especially around Christmas, Lent and Easter.
The co Peking reason to attend a rite would actually be through personal revelation. In other words if s rite brings you closer to god and helps your faith, and you feel a calling then that normally overrides ones birth traditions in the cc. As a rule of thumb. As a rc, I meet rcs who become ec's for that very reason.
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