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  #31  
Old Mar 29, '12, 3:16 am
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Marybeloved Marybeloved is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fm1982 View Post
Grandparents, on both sides, are uninterested in helping. My parents went so far as challenging my grandmother's will, that left everything to me, after they stole everything that was supposed to go to me and my children. They had no problem issuing threats, demanding security deposits for legal costs (knowing I have no money), flaunting the fact that they could bully me because they have literally millions of dollars to fight me in court, etc. Needless to say, for whatever reason they decided to torch that bridge rather than talking. In fact, at my grandmother's funeral, when the priest gave me the blessed crucifix off the casket, I offered it to my mother as a sign of peace, she took it and lifted her arm to throw it into the hole but was stopped by someone, then took off. Interestingly enough, all my inlaws (parents and brothers) are also "overwhelmed" by the children and can't be around them unless a parent (usually me) is around to take over when they are done. I do have some good friends who are willing to help out and have helped out in the past.

Anyways, I will be talking to child services (who have been called in twice due to her behaviour with the kids) about this in my monthly conversation with them. I do wonder whether it is a child protection issue when she is taking a 4 month old baby into the place where she is committing adultery (I just made this connection today and realized how disgusting that is). I did think about how things could get very dangerous if his wife were to walk into that kind of situation with no prior knowledge. Would she react violently and could that cause unintended harm to my baby? That thought alone sends my blood into a serious boil. In a way, it would be easier if they did my dirty work and removed her, then custody would automatically be mine with no questions asked - even though she has said she wouldn't fight, I don't know if I can trust that, for obvious good reason.

I am having a hard time understanding the why. We have four beautiful, healthy, intelligent, articulate, loving, affectionate children. While our house is not the largest, it fits us all comfortably enough and affords us the luxury of a stay at home parent in an area where that is a rarity. She has the freedom to do what she likes, when she wants to. Through her illness, we have been eating hundreds of extra dollars per month that we don't really have to make sure we had the daycare she needed for the kids. I am a more than willing contributor to maintaining the house and taking care of the kids. She is willing to throw this all away for some sex with a man of obvious questionable character? It makes absolutely no rational sense whatsoever.

This is much longer and much more than I intended to write into this late hour. Thank you again for all of your supportive comments and prayers.
OP, it seems our Lord has given you a very heavy cross to bear. Your situation seems so difficult from where I'm sitting, But with God, nothing is impossible, and we get grace sufficient for each situation, even those as painful and difficult as this one.

Do you have a spiritual Director? I know you mentioned a Catholic counsellor- Does she serve more in a professional counselling capacity or does she also give guidance on the spiritual journey? If not, I'd really pray to Jesus for one, and look around to see if I can find a good priest or religious who can take up this role. Sometimes God seems to allow too much, if you know what I mean- Much more than we can handle, so that he can force us to give up everything to him and rely on him with a more childlike trust as we don't know much ourselves. That's how I make sense of difficulties in life that seem overwhelming.

I wonder, OP, have you ever personally consecrated yourself or your family to God through one of the beautiful consecrations in the Church's spiritual tradition? St. Louis de Monteforte's Consecration to Jesus through Mary comes to mind. Whatever you decide to do, just try and see that it's not based on a totally earthly outlook, but the supernatural one as well. I'm sure St. Joseph is a great friend to husbands like you who are trying to do the right thing through impossible circumstances. I offer you my prayers (Hey, why not seek prayers thro' the prayer intentions forum at CAF that the Lord will grant you supernatural wisdom and make the way forward clear to you?) Someone once taught me to say the aspiration of the blind man to Jesus in the Gospels: Lord, that I may see....

Peace.
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  #32  
Old Mar 29, '12, 4:02 am
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Tietjen Tietjen is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

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Originally Posted by fm1982 View Post
I keep reminding myself "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us", "forgive your brother 70 times 7 times" etc., but when is enough enough and when do you remove yourself from the situation?
Forgiveness doesn't mean that consequences are withheld. When our sins are forgiven in Confession, that doesn't mean that we no longer have temporal consequences to face.
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  #33  
Old Mar 29, '12, 6:13 am
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fm1982 View Post
The counsellor, with training in counselling depressed people, told me that people with depression do not lose their moral compass, they still know right from wrong, and in people with serious depression, they will often not even have the motivation to do anything, never mind orchestrating an affair, new online accounts, etc.
The counselor is 100% correct. Unless there are other things going on such as psychosis or borderline personality disorder, someone who is seriously depressed will not act like your wife. You mentioned how she bolted out the door when you told her she didn't have to go to Mass. Not the action of someone depressed. Sounds more and more like BPD to me, but of course, I am not a professional, just trying to help you find a reason for this awful behavior.

Were it me, I think I'd spend less time in counseling and more time with a lawyer. You are going to be in pain one way or the other, but taking action to protect your children will help you start to heal inside. It's one thing if she was repentant. It's another ball game when she lies repeatedly and continues the affair. All bets are off at that point.

See your priest, and see a lawyer. ASAP.
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  #34  
Old Mar 29, '12, 9:30 am
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monicabay monicabay is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane View Post
I will concede the point for now. I am more concerned about the OP and especially the children than his wife.

#1. Please make sure your children are safe. Do not leave them alone with your wife under any circumstances. She has mentioned suicide. Many moms who hurt their kids have done the same thing.

#2. She needs treatment but if she refuses, you cannot expose yourself and the kids to the danger any longer. You must protect the children, as you seem to already recognize.

#3. Go see your priest ASAP.

#4. Get a lawyer ASAP.

#5. See a counselor, I would recommend that each of you see someone separately and later on, one person together.
Thanks! And, as I think about it, I do agree that the behavior is not ok, and you offer good advice.I sure do hope for the best for the whole family.

How sad this society is.
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  #35  
Old Mar 29, '12, 1:21 pm
GracedUpon GracedUpon is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

OP, if her depression started while she was pregnant, then I would bet it is hormone-related. What was her behavior/moral compass like before the depression hit? Is there any other evidence of her committing adultery earlier in your marriage? I don't know where you live, but I just read this article the other day about a PPD-specific inpatient center. It would probably be very difficult to get into, since it's the only one in the country and only has 5 beds, but it could be worth looking into. If not that, then I would seriously suggest seeking out a good naturopathic physician and see what they say. I've also seen mothers on these boards recommend "The Mood Cure" by Julia Ross, as it helped them overcome PPD.

I agree that you should absolutely not allow her to be alone with the children. If her PPD is bad enough, she could have psychotic episodes where she could seriously harm your kids. There's another thread on these forums about a mom who killed herself and her 3 children while her husband was at work, just days after being diagnosed with a mental illness. I'm not generally an advocate of using daycare, but your baby would be safer there than with your mentally unstable wife right now.

I'm not going to advise whether or not you should ask your wife to leave. One thing to consider with that would be the potential for unsupervised visits for her with your kids. Another thing would be that it seems highly likely that, if you were to divorce and seek annulment, a tribunal would declare your marriage null, due to her secret rendezvous during your engagement. I will say that your situation is best discussed with a priest, your counselor, and a good lawyer.

Also, like the PPs mentioned, next time she threatens suicide, call the police if she refuses to get help right then and there. Many people threaten suicide and don't mean it, but since your wife is so unstable, her behaviors may be unpredictable.

Prayers for you and your family.
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  #36  
Old Mar 29, '12, 3:34 pm
King Lazy King Lazy is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GracedUpon View Post
OP, if her depression started while she was pregnant, then I would bet it is hormone-related. What was her behavior/moral compass like before the depression hit? Is there any other evidence of her committing adultery earlier in your marriage?
I believe OP stated that she had cheated on him during their engagement and that if he had known, he would have reconsidered marrying her.
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  #37  
Old Mar 29, '12, 4:11 pm
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28562 28562 is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

You are a better man than I am. That's really all I can say.
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  #38  
Old Mar 29, '12, 5:53 pm
Musician Musician is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

I'd kick her butt out of the house ASAP and send her stuff flying after her. No way I'd put up with this ridiculous behavior. File for separation (use a lawyer for EVERYTHING for heaven's sakes), get her out of your life, and hire a really GOOD live-in housekeeper nanny. It's worth it.
I had four children very close together and my DH was gone for months at a time during his military career, and then afterward in his new career. These were times that we lived abroad - there was no family to help out. But I handled it fine with the help of a housekeeper/nanny.
You'll make it. My prayers are with you.
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  #39  
Old Mar 29, '12, 8:37 pm
fm1982 fm1982 is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Classic...

I ran into him today and just treated him as if he was a stranger, just saying thanks for holding the door (while carrying 2 of my four children as the other two walked just behind me).

They are talking about it online right now...she says I don't know anything and that I probably didn't recognize him - we did meet once before. He's concerned and she's lying to the "other" man now too...

P.S. I don't think I'm so lost anymore. I think I know what I have to do for what's left of my family's sake, it's just timing now. I am praying for the patience to get to where I need to be.
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  #40  
Old Mar 29, '12, 10:48 pm
TryingToLearn TryingToLearn is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

The one piece of advice I see missing from this thread is: Pray for your wife daily. Offer your suffering to God daily and ask God to bless her and heal her.

Before you do anything, make sure you are praying for her and forgiving her daily. Make sure that you spend time discerning God's will for you. Pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance and direction and make sure you know His will and follow it. Not your will. Not Satan's will. God's will. He has a plan. He will lead you where He wants you. He will use your suffering to glorify His name.
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  #41  
Old Mar 29, '12, 11:30 pm
SpeSalvi SpeSalvi is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

My heart goes out to you. I'll keep you in my prayers
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  #42  
Old Mar 30, '12, 5:18 am
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Marybeloved Marybeloved is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fm1982 View Post
P.S. I don't think I'm so lost anymore. I think I know what I have to do for what's left of my family's sake, it's just timing now. I am praying for the patience to get to where I need to be.
OP, I would get some information on annulments if I were you- just to know. I say this because you indicated she was this way before you married, but you didn't know. It may also be possible she's been this way throughout your marriage but you didn't know. If she had some type of disorder from before, or she had no intent to contract a true and proper marriage (Like if she fully intended to carry on affairs while married) this may possibly point to an invalid marriage. Catholic marriages are contracted by the parties, not the church per se- so an intent not to contract a catholic marriage might invalidate it.

May turn out not to be the case (invalid marriage), but it's worth looking into, just to be fully informed about options. If you end up pursuing this, of course you'll leave it to the final judgment of the church and submit to her decisions. But looking into it and getting informed could not hurt.
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  #43  
Old Apr 6, '12, 8:22 am
fm1982 fm1982 is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Thanks to everyone for the support and prayers again.

The relationship continues - while I was at work last Friday night and there were adults in our home, she said she was going to the gym, but forgot to tell me that it happened to be at a cheap motel on the other side of town with the other guy.

Last night they were talking about setting up their next encounter, while she was also chatting up a "friend" of hers who is in an "open" relationship about getting together with this woman's husband. To top it all off, she asked her boyfriend about it to make sure that it wouldn't "hurt" him if she did sleep with this other guy!!!

Unfortunately, my visit to the lawyer's office didn't go as well as I would have hoped. The lawyer told me that father's rights, while improving, are down on the lists of the concerns of the court. Judges will do everything to make sure the mother has custody and in the words of the lawyer, unless the mother is a convicted serial killer, it is a huge uphill battle to climb to get any significant custody if the mother chooses to fight. The rights of the mother could trump the rights of the child. She could yell and scream at them all day, as long as it's behind closed doors and there is no "proof", there is not much I can do. Recording it and using that as evidence could actually make me look worse in the court's eyes as they would say I have control of the editing and could have provoked her then only recorded the reaction. The kids are too young to complain, so as long as she can behave the hour monthly that children's services are there, she's ok for the rest of the month. The temper tantrums when she doesn't get her way, threats to hit me when I tell her to relax when she is yelling at the kids, the doorless bathroom (because she ripped the door off its hinges and heaved it over a railing and down the stairs), the children's services files, none of that really matters. The lawyer, who is very experienced and no nonsense told me that she's seen many, many cases where people in her "condition" snap out of it as soon as they are served with papers and will convince the courts that they are the parent of the year. Children's services could ask her to leave, but that would mean very little a few months down the road if she claims she has improved.

The courts also tend to put these things on annual review, so after a year or two or five, she could swoop in, say she's fine and take the kids. Wouldn't matter how much hard work, sacrifice and most of all love I give to them, she could come and take them away and leave me as a part-time parent. Unfortunately knowing the way she is, her feelings of anger and hate would trump any feelings of love, so even if she knew in her heart that the kids would be best off with me, the feelings of anger towards me (because she is blaming me 40% for the affair and taking only 60% blame herself) would mean that she would do whatever it takes to make me miserable.

After the conversation, it feels like the law is giving her a free pass to do whatever she likes. If she can hold enough together to show she is capable, they will favour her over me. It doesn't matter what example she sets for them, her lack of moral values, her self-centeredness, greed for pleasure - all those things count for nothing. As long as she's not bringing in hard core criminals, drug dealers, etc, she could have a different man every night and still maintain custody.

This morning she told me she has booked a playdate with this guy and his children for Monday at a playplace. I told her it was unacceptable, but when they called back she still booked enough tickets for all of the kids to go!! She told me I have to move on (it was only 3 weeks ago - she doesn't know that I know they have continued and elevated the relationship) and get over it. The kids were around so I had to leave it at that for now because I didn't want things to get loud over this with the kids around.

I am trying to raise my children to be respectful, productive members of society with a solid faith in God and responsible moral values. The example their mother sets, while they are young still, I cannot imagine based on her history it stopping, they will eventually know or suspect what their mother is doing.

If I throw her out - it is a gamble and my children could end up living full time with her and her character. This is what they would be picking up through their formative years and it would be very difficult to bring them back once they have seen this. It is obviously much more alluring in the short term to go from hormonal fling to fling, where there is no pressure, responsibility, etc. than to work on a long term relationship like a marriage.

If I keep her around for the sake of my children, they will still be exposed to her philandering (they will eventually pick up on it), I will be "married" to someone with absolutely no respect or concern for me and will have to spend inordinate amounts of time trying to control my absolute disdain for her in front of the kids. It is very difficult being married to someone who treats you worse than they would a nanny or other hired help.

It seems like a no win situation. I am once again lost. In a just world I'd know what I could do and have confidence that things would work out properly, but in this world where behaviour and the example one sets for their children doesn't matter, I am in a tough situation

As for annulments - if I ever get to that point, from what I have read I would have a decent shot at it. Not only from her behaviour, but also upon reflection and discussions with counsellors, coming from an abusive home, I saw marriage as a way out of that home. Not that I didn't (and don't) have intentions on making it work, I just think that the period of discernment was not long enough and obviously she was able to hide a part of her character long enough to get me into a point where it is very difficult to get out.
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  #44  
Old Apr 6, '12, 7:44 pm
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Mayita30 Mayita30 is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Dear OP,

I have read your post and I am so saddened by your situation. Please pray the rosary. Prayers can make miracles. Through prayers, God will give you the grace to solve your problems. Believe with all your heart. Subit yourwelf to the will of God.

Please try to do the following:
eucharstic adoration
daily rosary
sacred heart novena
and go to mass

I have no solution to your problem. That is really too much for a person to handle. Please pray and leave everything to God right now.Raise your children as a loving father. Go to mass with your children, take them to school, eat with them and love your children.

Look for a catholic supprt groups and pray that God will put people in your life who can help you get through this situation.

Efficacious Novena to the Sacred Heart of Jesus


I. O my Jesus, you have said: "Truly I say to you, ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you." Behold I knock, I seek and ask for the grace of...... (here name your request)Our Father....Hail Mary....Glory Be to the Father....Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you.


II. O my Jesus, you have said: "Truly I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, he will give it to you." Behold, in your name, I ask the Father for the grace of.......(here name your request) Our Father...Hail Mary....Glory Be To the Father....Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you.

III. O my Jesus, you have said: "Truly I say to you, heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away." Encouraged by your infallible words I now ask for the grace of.....(here name your request) Our Father....Hail Mary....Glory Be to the Father...Sacred Heart of Jesus, I place all my trust in you.

O Sacred Heart of Jesus, for whom it is impossible not to have compassion on the afflicted, have pity on us miserable sinners and grant us the grace which we ask of you, through the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, your tender Mother and ours.
Say the Hail, Holy Queen and add: St. Joseph, foster father of Jesus, pray for us.
-- St. Margaret Mary Alacoque
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  #45  
Old Apr 6, '12, 7:51 pm
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the phoenix the phoenix is offline
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Default Re: What to do??? Very lost...

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
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