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  #1  
Old Mar 29, '12, 1:30 am
InJesusItrust InJesusItrust is offline
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Default Jesus prefigured in Vedas

I was floored when I learned this and also very skeptical, but after much googling I've come to the conclusion that Jesus fulfilled not only the Torah but also the Vedas.

Modern Hindus do not practice animal sacrifice, but in the Vedas sacrifice was seen as the necessity for salvation. There is even something called "purushamedha". If you research this you will find that Jesus fulfills it perfectly.

Quote:
An examination of the Vedas reveals that sacrifice is spoken of as the only means of salvation. “Prathamani Dharmani”; “Sacrifices are the foremost of our first duties.”



“Yagnovai Bhuvanasya Nabhih”- “Sacrifice is the mainstay of the world”.



“Yagne Sarvam Pratishthitam” – “It is sacrifice that bestows all things”.



“Yagnovai Sutarmanowh”- “Sacrifice is the bark (boat) that enables one to live well”.



“Yagnena Va Deva Divangatah” – “Only by means of sacrifice, the gods attained heaven”



“Rutasyanah Pathanaya Ati Viswani Durita”- “Deliverance through the path of sacrifice”



The above doctrines proclaimed by the Vedas emphasize that sacrifices should be the foremost of all penances that must be performed for the atonement of sins.

Let us also see what the Bhagavad Gita says:

Slo. “Sahayagnah Prajasrushtva Purovacha Prajapatih Anena Prasavishyadhwam Eshavvostvishta Kamadukh” – “In the beginning alone, along with the creation of man, God instituted the sacrifice, and told them, “May this grant the desires of your heart”

“Yagnakshapitakalmashah” – “Those whose sins have been effaced by means of sacrifice”

“Nayam lokostyayagnasvah kutanayah kurusattama” – “Oh, noble Guru, there is no place in this world for him who does not perform even a single one of these sacrifices; how then shall he obtain heaven?”

In this manner, the importance of sacrifice is taught.

Further, in the Mundakopanishad, we see, “Plava hyere adrudhayagnarapah” – “The timbers of the bark of sacrifice are unsound”.

In Skanda Puranam Yagna Vaibhava Khandam, 7th chapter, we read:

Slo. “Plava eyete sura yagna adrudhasheha na samshayah” – “Ye gods, sacrifices are like the timbers of a bark; there is no doubt that they are unsound”

Tandya Maha Brahmanam says, Sru: “Yagnota avati tasyachhaya kriyate” – “It is a sacrifice that saves. What is being performed, is the shadow of sacrifice”.

In Rig Veda, we read, Sru: “Atmada baladah yasya chhaya-mrutam yasya mruatyuh” – “He whose shadow and death become nectar shall, by his shadow and death, confer the spirit and strength”.

The above sayings clearly reveal that the sacrifices performed do not themselves confer salvation but they are the type and the shadow of a great salvation-giving sacrifice.

Aitareya Brahmanam says, Sru: “Yaja-manah pashuh yajamanameva suvargam lokam gamayati” – “He who offers the sacrificial animal; therefore, he who performs sacrifices goes to heaven”

In the Satpatha Brahmanam, we read, “Prajapatir yagnah” – “God Himself is the sacrifice”.

In Tandya Maha Brahmanam of Sama Veda, we read, Sru: “Prajapatir devebhyam atmanam yagnam krutva prayachhat” – “God would offer Himself as a sacrifice and obtain atonement for sins”

Satapadha Brahmanam says, “Tasya prajapatirardhameva martyamasidardhamrutam” – God became half mortal and half immortal”. This means that He united in Himself the human and the divine.

In the Purusha Sukta, we read that the God Brahma is sacrificed. What is evident from the above teachings is that the true and great redeeming sacrifice would be the one performed by the Sovereign Lord of this world, who putting on both mortality and immortality and becoming incarnate as God-man, would Himself be the sacrificial animal and offer Himself as a sacrifice to redeem mankind from their sins.

This is what the Rig Veda says about the sacrificial animal:

I. It must be a goat without blemish

II. The “balusu” bush must be placed round its head;

III. It must be bound to a sacrificial post.

IV. Nails must be driven into its four legs till they bleed.

V. The cloth covering the goat should be divided among the four priests.

VI. None of its bones must be broken.

VII. The goat should be given a drink of Soma juice.

VIII. After it has been slain, it must be restored to life again.

IX. Its flesh should be eaten.

Now these details lead us to conclude that the sacrificial death of the incarnate God-head must have answered this description in full.

Thus, it is said that God Himself must become man, and then become a sacrifice to save sinners. But we do not read any such thing written about the incarnations of our country nor in the Sastras. There is no God-incarnate man, who died a sacrificial death to save sinners
http://sites.google.com/site/whoisth...induscriptures

I am thinking that God may have pre-figured Jesus in many religions.
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  #2  
Old Mar 29, '12, 5:21 am
Nicko Nicko is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Jesus - in the accounts that I have read anyway - was born in human, not goat, form. Can you refer us to the scriptures of this Goat-Jesus you seem to hypothesise?
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Old Mar 29, '12, 5:27 am
Curious Convert Curious Convert is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Niko, I think you might be missing the point. Jesus was prefigured in the Old Testament as an unblemished lamb that was to be sacrificed and eaten (passover), and also as a ram that was sacrificed instead of Abraham's son. The OP is simply providing us with some fascinating examples of similar prefiguring in other religions. The Catechism does teach that there are some truths in other religions, and that these truths are meant to prepare people to receive the full message of the gospel.
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  #4  
Old Mar 29, '12, 6:13 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Quote:
Originally Posted by InJesusItrust View Post
There is even something called "purushamedha". If you research this you will find that Jesus fulfills it perfectly.
Purusha-medha: 'human [purusha] sacrifice'. It kind of seems that actual human sacrifice was practiced at an early stage by the Vedic culture, but was subsequently abandoned: the purushamedha thus became a purely symbolic ritual, though remnants still remain: there is a legend recorded in a famous hymn known as the Purusha Sukta (cf. Rigveda, 10.90; Samaveda, 6.4; Atharvaveda, 19.6; Yajurveda, 31.1-6) about how the gods once sacrificed the primeval cosmic being Purusha, from whom all creation came forth.
A THOUSAND heads hath Puruṣa, a thousand eyes, a thousand feet.
On every side pervading earth he fills a space ten fingers wide.
This Puruṣa is all that yet hath been and all that is to be;
The Lord of Immortality which waxes greater still by food.
So mighty is his greatness; yea, greater than this is Puruṣa.
All creatures are one-fourth of him, three-fourths eternal life in heaven.
With three-fourths Puruṣa went up: one-fourth of him again was here.
Thence he strode out to every side over what eats not and what eats.
From him Virāj was born; again Puruṣa from Virāj was born.
As soon as he was born he spread eastward and westward o’er the earth.
When Gods prepared the sacrifice with Puruṣa as their offering,
Its oil was spring, the holy gift was autumn; summer was the wood.
They balmed as victim on the grass Puruṣa born in earliest time.
With him the Deities and all Sādhyas and Ṛṣis sacrificed.
From that great general sacrifice the dripping fat was gathered up.
He formed the creatures of-the air, and animals both wild and tame.
From that great general sacrifice Ṛcas and Sāma-hymns were born:
Therefrom were spells and charms produced; the Yajus had its birth from it.
From it were horses born, from it all cattle with two rows of teeth:
From it were generated kine, from it the goats and sheep were born.
When they divided Puruṣa how many portions did they make?
What do they call his mouth, his arms? What do they call his thighs and feet?
The Brahman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Rājanya made.
His thighs became the Vaiśya, from his feet the Śūdra was produced.
The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye the Sun had birth;
Indra and Agni from his mouth were born, and Vāyu from his breath.
Forth from his navel came mid-air the sky was fashioned from his head
Earth from his feet, and from his ear the regions. Thus they formed the worlds.
Seven fencing-sticks had he, thrice seven layers of fuel were prepared,
When the Gods, offering sacrifice, bound, as their victim, Puruṣa.
Gods, sacrificing, sacrificed the victim these were the earliest holy ordinances.
The Mighty Ones attained the height of heaven, there where the Sādhyas, Gods of old, are dwelling.
As for the quote from the Bhagavad Gita (translation from Lars Martin Fosse's The Bhagavad Gita: the original Sanskrit and an English translation):
The Lord said, 'In this world, I have formerly taught two alternatives, blameless Prince: the discipline of knowledge for men of intellect, and the disciple of action for men of action.
A man does not avoid karma because he ceases to undertake actions, nor does he fully reach success simply by renunciation.
Indeed, no one remains without acting even for a moment. For everybody is made to act willy-nilly by the three properties produced by primordial nature.
He who controls his organs of action, but sits brooding over sense objects in his mind like a deluded soul, he is called a hypocrite.
But he who, controlling his senses with his mind, Arjuna, undertakes the discipline of action with his organs of action, he is distinguished as a man detached from worldly passions.
You must perform a customary action, for that is better than inaction. Even the mere maintenance of your body would not succeed without actions.
With the exception of action done for the sake of sacrifice, this world is bound by the consequences of action. Therefore, Son of Kunti, perform actions free from attachment.
When Prajapati in ancient times had brought forth creatures and the sacrifice, he said, "With this you shall procreate, this shall be the Cow of Plenty for your desires."
Strengthen the gods with it, let the gods strengthen you. When you strengthen each other, you will obtain the ultimate good.
The gods will give you the enjoyments you desire when they are strengthened by sacrifice. The man who enjoys gifts from them without giving them anything in return is simply a thief.
Those who eat the remains of sacrifices will be released from all sins. But the wicked who only cook for themselves eat filth.
Beings spring from food, food springs from rain, rain springs from sacrifice, and sacrifice springs from action.'

Last edited by patrick457; Mar 29, '12 at 6:32 am.
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  #5  
Old Mar 29, '12, 6:47 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Quote:
Satapadha Brahmanam says, “Tasya prajapatirardhameva martyamasidardhamrutam” – God became half mortal and half immortal”. This means that He united in Himself the human and the divine.
Pragâpati created living beings. From the out- (and in-) breathings he created the gods, and from the downward breathings the mortal beings; and above the (mortal) beings he created Death as their consumer. Now, one half of that Pragâpati was mortal, and the other half immortal: with that part of him which was mortal he was afraid of death; and, being afraid, he became twofold, clay and water, and entered this (earth).

Death spake unto the gods saying, 'What has become of him who has created us?'–'Being afraid of thee, he has entered this (earth),' they said. He spake, 'Let us search for him, let us gather him up for I shall not injure him.' The gods gathered him from out of this (earth): that part of him which was in the water, they gathered as water, and that which was in this (earth, they gathered) as clay. Having gathered together both clay and water, they made a brick, whence a brick consists of both clay and water. And, indeed, these five forms (bodily parts) of him are mortal–the hair on the mouth, the skin, the flesh, the bone, and the marrow; and these are immortal–the mind, the voice, the vital air; the eye, and the ear. Now, that Pragâpati is no other than the Fire-altar which is here built up, and what five mortal parts there were of him, they are these layers of earth; and those which were immortal they are these layers of bricks.

The gods spake, 'Let us make him immortal!' Having encompassed that mortal form by those immortal forms of his, they made it immortal–the layer of earth by means of two layers of bricks: in like manner the second, the third, and the fourth (layers of earth). And having laid down the fifth layer (of bricks), he (the Adhvaryu) scatters earth on it; thereon he lays the Vikarnî and the Svayamâtrinnâ, scatters chips of gold, and places the fire: that is the seventh layer, and that (part) is immortal; and in this way, having encompassed that mortal form of his by those two immortal forms, they made it immortal,--the layer of earth by means of two layers of bricks.

Thereby, then, Pragâpati became immortal; and in like manner does the Sacrificer become immortal by making that body (of the altar) immortal. But the gods knew not whether they had made him complete, or not; whether they had made him too large, or left him defective. They saw this verse (Vâg. S. XVIII, 76), 'The seat-hiding Agni, Indra, god Brahman, Brihaspati, and the wise All-gods may speed our sacrifice unto bliss!' Of this (verse) one part is Agni's, one part Indra's, and one part the All-gods’;--with that part thereof which is Agni's they made up that part of him (Pragâpati) which is Agni's, and with Indra's (part) that which is Indra's, and with the All-gods’ (part) that which is the All-gods’: in this very (fire-altar) they thus made him up wholly and completely. And when he stands by (the altar, worshipping it) with this (verse), he thereby secures (makes good) all that part of him (Pragâpati) which, whether he knows it or not, he either does in excess or insufficiently in this (fire-altar),–whatever has not been secured for him. The 'seat-hiding' (verse) is an Anushtubh, for the Anushtubh is speech, and the seat-hider is speech: it is by speech that he secures for him what was not secured for him. 'Let him approach (the altar with this verse) when he has covered a layer with earth,' say some, 'for then that (layer) becomes whole and complete.'

- Satapatha Brahmana, 10.1
Quote:
This is what the Rig Veda says about the sacrificial animal:

I. It must be a goat without blemish

II. The “balusu” bush must be placed round its head;

III. It must be bound to a sacrificial post.

IV. Nails must be driven into its four legs till they bleed.

V. The cloth covering the goat should be divided among the four priests.

VI. None of its bones must be broken.

VII. The goat should be given a drink of Soma juice.

VIII. After it has been slain, it must be restored to life again.

IX. Its flesh should be eaten.
I'd like to see which book in the Rigveda this appears.
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  #6  
Old Mar 29, '12, 6:59 am
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Danuska Danuska is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

I would not know the answer to this question, but I know someone who has converted from Hinduism to Christianity, and in his testimony he wrote
Such was my immense craving for God that I travelled places just to learn more about spirituality and meditation, I went to ashrams, I met Gurus and I read many religious books.

I was already working at that time when in 1996, I came across a religious book exhibition where I found some old scriptures in Hindu books called Vishnu Puran and Books on Vedas . In them, I found the following: Rig-Veda book 10 says, “In the beginning only God and his Supreme Spirit existed. From God’s mouth the first word was born in the form of light and through him all creation was made.” Another verse says, “The sins of the world can be washed away by the sacrifice of this first-born. He should be bound stretched on a wooden sacrificial post. Those making the offering should divide his clothes among themselves and consume his flesh and blood.”

I did not understand these verses at that time. In the meantime, I was also going through other holy books such as the Quran and the Bible, but it was only when I started reading the New Testament that I received a great revelation. I got so engrossed in this book that I was not aware of the time and space – I even forgot to eat and drink. The immense joy that filled my heart from knowing Jesus of Nazareth was beyond expression; he touched my life like nothing ever did before.

Within moments, everything became so clear and easy to understand – he was like the key to the locked treasures of the knowledge of God. Ecclesiasticus 24: 5-6 reads, “I came out of the mouth of the most high, the first born before all creatures. I made that in the Heavens there should rise light that never faileth”. This verse from the Bible was similar to that verse I read in the Veda. My heart moved with such an immense gratitude for knowing the ultimate truth about Jesus that the next moment I found myself kneeling on the floor with my body electrified and tears of joy running down my face. I started shivering and weeping bitterly, for this Jesus in the Bible was the one who was crucified for my sins.

There are many verses in Veda that describe Jesus as ‘the Saviour’, ‘a Lamb of Sacrifice’, and still another verse says, “Those who believe in this first-born and chant his name on their lips shall be liberated in this world itself and there is no other way of salvation.” There aresimilar descriptions in the Bible, for example, Romans 10:9 says, “If you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Bhagavad Gita says, “When there is decline in religious principles, the Lord comes in disguise to the earth to deliver the pious and to re-establish God consciousness. In his final incarnation he will come to judge over the living and the dead riding over a white horse with a sword in his hand (Kalki avatar)”. Revelation 19: 11-16 describes our Lord’s second coming on a white horse as well..”
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Old Mar 29, '12, 7:17 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

A certain hymn from the 10th book of the Rigveda (a sort of speculative hymn about creation) runs thus. Yes, it does have some rather familiar elements in it, but ultimately goes into a different direction: the hymn ultimately ends in an unresolved question.
THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter? Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.
Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscriminated chaos.
All that existed then was void and form less: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit.
Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire, the primal seed and germ of Spirit.
Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent.
Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?
There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder
Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.
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Old Mar 29, '12, 7:27 am
InJesusItrust InJesusItrust is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick457 View Post
I'd like to see which book in the Rigveda this appears.
No idea. I found the passage I quoted on a website. I do know that though modern Hindus shudder at animal sacrifice, it used to be a pretty big thing.
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Old Mar 29, '12, 8:49 am
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Quote:
Originally Posted by InJesusItrust View Post
No idea. I found the passage I quoted on a website. I do know that though modern Hindus shudder at animal sacrifice, it used to be a pretty big thing.
Correct. Sacrifices of animals to the gods performed by Brahmin priests was once an important element of the Vedic religion (as in many other cultures all over the world). For instance, you have the famous Ashvamedha or Horse Sacrifice, a ritual or set of rituals of a grand scale which only a king may perform. It is one of the few Vedic animal sacrifices that had survived up to recent times (the last attempt to perform the Ashvamedha was in 1716).

However, by the end of the Vedic period, more and more people began to question the Brahmanic emphasis on sacrificial rituals under the principle of ahimsa or 'non-violence', now touted as a virtue. Not surprisingly, the post-Vedic age was also the time when parallel non-Vedic (shramanic) movements like Buddhism and Jainism which competed with Brahmanism developed and began to flourish: influence went both ways, which paved the way for the Vedic religion to metamorphose into Hinduism.

The trend among many thinkers in later Hinduism was either to spiritualize these descriptions of sacrifice in the Vedas or to stress that these injunctions are no longer to be seen as applicable in this age. This view wasn't universally held though: while the general view in Vedantic Hinduism towards the ritual slaughter of animals is not so favorable, animal (and in a few cases, human!) sacrifice continued to be performed now and again in certain currents of popular Hinduism to an extent, though not surprisingly there are those who now decry this practice as inhumane. (Warning: a couple of the pictures might be distressing.) The minority Shrauta traditions which conservatively preserved much of the old Vedic rites apparently also did so. When anthropologist Frits Staal filmed the Nambudiri Brahmins of Kerala, which belonged to the Shrauta tradition, performing the Agnicayana (a ritual thought by everyone else to have been long since discontinued) in 1975, they had to perform the essential goat sacrifice using an effigy to prevent animal rights groups from complaining.
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Old Mar 29, '12, 11:51 am
InJesusItrust InJesusItrust is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Wow, Patrick, you sure know a lot about Hindu culture. Are you an Anthropologist?

With that said, I think it is very likely that God prepared gentiles for the coming of Christ if they wouldn't harden their hearts.

This article started my interest

Are there any other links I can follow to learn more about how God prepared the world for His Son?
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Old Mar 29, '12, 3:15 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

Quote:
Originally Posted by InJesusItrust View Post
Wow, Patrick, you sure know a lot about Hindu culture. Are you an Anthropologist?
One word: no.

Quote:
With that said, I think it is very likely that God prepared gentiles for the coming of Christ if they wouldn't harden their hearts.

This article started my interest

Are there any other links I can follow to learn more about how God prepared the world for His Son?
To be honest with you, while I do agree that there are certain elements which prefigure that Divine plan across all world cultures, I don't think the article you quoted at the OP - which is mostly composed of unsourced one-liners, some of them apparently cherry-picked out of their original contexts - does a very good job at proving it. To me it kind of reads like those articles which claim that Chinese characters supposedly point towards the stories in Genesis or how certain Japanese words actually come from Hebrew, therefore proving that Israelites came to ancient Japan: they hunt for the slightest hint of 'similarity' (no matter how superficial that similarity actually is) to use as proof-text, jump on it, and then attempt to read their interpretation into it, which to me is a bad way of doing research. The writers of such articles may have noble intentions, but they unfortunately use rather questionable means in conveying what they want to convey.
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Old Mar 29, '12, 3:20 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
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Default Re: Jesus prefigured in Vedas

For the record, here's an article which attempts to refute the article quoted in the OP: Nine Signs of Christ In Rigveda??
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