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May 7, '12, 7:44 am
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Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,009
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
I already explained it but you ignored it.
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I did not ignore it, Please explain it again to me, I either missed it or do not understand it. Make it easier for me 
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May 7, '12, 7:46 am
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Banned
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Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie
Why did the Apostles not know who Jesus was when he asked them?
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They hadn't accepted the belief yet. But they hadn't rejected it, like Muslims do.
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May 7, '12, 7:49 am
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Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,009
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
They hadn't accepted the belief yet. But they hadn't rejected it, like Muslims do.
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Okay, good answer. Now answer the real one. Who is the God they prayed to before Christ was revealed to them? Was it a false god or not?
Because according to you if you do not accept Christ you are praying to a false god right? Now you just admitted they did not accept Christ YET!
Now was the God they prayed to previous a false god yes or no?
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May 7, '12, 7:53 am
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Banned
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Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie
I did not ignore it, Please explain it again to me, I either missed it or do not understand it. Make it easier for me |
They worship along with us.
Two different paths. Both believing they are worshipping the one true God.
One actually worshipping in proper belief and worship given by God.
One worshipping in false belief and false worship given by man.
One path leading to life, one to death.
Both along side each other, together.
Both claiming to worship the one true God.
One actually worshipping Him, one..... not.
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May 7, '12, 7:55 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: April 14, 2008
Posts: 20,149
Religion: Catholic - Latin rite
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
No it says one thing and you read it wrong.
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Here is a larger portion of section 3 of Nostra Aetate. Can you please point to the part I read wrong:-
Quote:
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3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting
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Specifically I would like the part which is only saying they worship the one God but does not really mean it highlighted for my attention.
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May 7, '12, 7:55 am
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Banned
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Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie
Okay, good answer. Now answer the real one. Who is the God they prayed to before Christ was revealed to them? Was it a false god or not?
Because according to you if you do not accept Christ you are praying to a false god right? Now you just admitted they did not accept Christ YET!
Now was the God they prayed to previous a false god yes or no?
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No. It was not a false God. He wasn't fully revealed. He was fully revealed in Jesus and not only do Muslims reject Him they make up falsehoods about Him.
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May 7, '12, 8:00 am
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Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,009
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
Ok, ball in your court.
How do Muslims worship along with us? Is the Islamic form of worship pleasing to God. Will it save them? This is the only conclusion that one can be lead to in your line of thinking.
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The way they worship God the same as us is they pray to the One God the Creator of heaven and earth.
Does getting on your knees and bowing to God the Father the Creator of heaven and earth pleasing to God? Yes the scripture tells us it is.
Will their prayers save them? How would I know? I am not God, who am I to say what will or will not save them. Salvation is given to us through Jesus Christ. And he tells us he wishes for everyone to be saved. Will he save the Jews? Will he save the Muslims? Will he save the Christians? We will all find out on judgement day.
I am not God I cannot condemn anyone to hell, or send anyone to heaven. Only God can.
DId Jesus die for ALL mans sins or just for the ones who accepted him? I was told he died for all mans sins, and without his death no one could enter heaven.
I was taught you cannot go to the Father without the Son, why? Simple because God and the Son are one.
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May 7, '12, 8:01 am
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Banned
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Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian
Here is a larger portion of section 3 of Nostra Aetate. Can you please point to the part I read wrong:-
Specifically I would like the part which is only saying they worship the one God but does not really mean it highlighted for my attention.
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It says they worship the one god. Their version, which shares similarities to the revealed God, and even mentions a few of the falsehoods. It goes on to say they reject the one true God, Jesus Christ.
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May 7, '12, 8:01 am
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: April 14, 2008
Posts: 20,149
Religion: Catholic - Latin rite
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
No. It was not a false God. He wasn't fully revealed. He was fully revealed in Jesus and not only do Muslims reject Him they make up falsehoods about Him.
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Well then the Jews are definitely worshipping some other God also by this logic as Judaism does not recognise Christ as at best any more than a rabbi who represented a particular ongoing ideological conflict within Judaism which was pertinent to his era.
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May 7, '12, 8:05 am
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Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,009
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
No. It was not a false God. He wasn't fully revealed. He was fully revealed in Jesus and not only do Muslims reject Him they make up falsehoods about Him.
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There you go, You just answered your own question did you not? Is the Muslim God a false god? No he is not a false God.
Do muslims reject Jesus as the Son of God? Yes they do. How can you pray to the true God and not accept Christ? Simple, When you do not have the truth revealed to you by the power of the Holy Spirit you will not accept it.
But when the truth is revealed, It will BE BY the Power of the Holy Spirit that the grace will come for them to accept it. It will be a gift from God, the same as it was given to us to accept Jesus Christ.
It is not for us to say When, or how. We just know that it WILL happen, If they are of God he will give them the Grace to see the truth.
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May 7, '12, 8:06 am
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Banned
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Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie
The way they worship God the same as us is they pray to the One God the Creator of heaven and earth.
Does getting on your knees and bowing to God the Father the Creator of heaven and earth pleasing to God? Yes the scripture tells us it is.
Will their prayers save them? How would I know? I am not God, who am I to say what will or will not save them. Salvation is given to us through Jesus Christ. And he tells us he wishes for everyone to be saved. Will he save the Jews? Will he save the Muslims? Will he save the Christians? We will all find out on judgement day.
I am not God I cannot condemn anyone to hell, or send anyone to heaven. Only God can.
DId Jesus die for ALL mans sins or just for the ones who accepted him? I was told he died for all mans sins, and without his death no one could enter heaven.
I was taught you cannot go to the Father without the Son, why? Simple because God and the Son are one.
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And we pray through Christ our Lord. And offer the sacrifice of the son back to the Father. Now tell me how they worship with us.
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May 7, '12, 8:08 am
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Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,009
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
No. It was not a false God. He wasn't fully revealed. He was fully revealed in Jesus and not only do Muslims reject Him they make up falsehoods about Him.
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Or could it be said that according to the false prophet Muhammad and his false teaching the TRUE gospel was not fully revealed to them either?
Do you not understand that even today if they read the bible they will be killed?
And do you not understand when it does become truly revealed to them they are comming to Christ in record numbers.
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May 7, '12, 8:10 am
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Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,009
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406
And we pray through Christ our Lord. And offer the sacrifice of the son back to the Father. Now tell me how they worship with us.
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Oh Geeze Simple the Father and the Son ARE ONE.There is only ONE GOD!
When you pray to God the Father or God the Son or God the Holy Spirit are we not praying to ONE GOD!
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May 7, '12, 8:11 am
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Banned
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Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie
There you go, You just answered your own question did you not? Is the Muslim God a false god? No he is not a false God.
Do muslims reject Jesus as the Son of God? Yes they do. How can you pray to the true God and not accept Christ? Simple, When you do not have the truth revealed to you by the power of the Holy Spirit you will not accept it.
But when the truth is revealed, It will BE BY the Power of the Holy Spirit that the grace will come for them to accept it. It will be a gift from God, the same as it was given to us to accept Jesus Christ.
It is not for us to say When, or how. We just know that it WILL happen, If they are of God he will give them the Grace to see the truth.
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Aaaah, so they don't have Truth. I am the way the Truth and the Life, nobody comes to the Father but through Me.
Rejecting Jesus is rejecting Truth, and rejecting Truth is rejecting the Father.
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May 7, '12, 8:12 am
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Banned
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Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
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Re: Church teaching on Islam
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie
Oh Geeze Simple the Father and the Son ARE ONE.There is only ONE GOD!
When you pray to God the Father or God the Son or God the Holy Spirit are we not praying to ONE GOD! |
So rejecting Jesus is rejecting that One God, correct?
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