Catholic FAQ


Help support Catholic Answers!

Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #451  
Old May 8, '12, 8:16 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: December 27, 2004
Posts: 15,992
Religion: The Holy Orthodox Church
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
But the Point is this, It is indeed a teaching of our Pope. He has the authority to teach us. He has exercised his authority and done so.
But is it mandatory for you to accept this "same god" teaching....under pain of excommunication or loss of salvation?
  #452  
Old May 8, '12, 8:22 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,822
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey View Post
Indeed. And this was not a "teaching" for hundreds of years until relatively recently (in this age of ecumenism).

In fact, I have never seen evidence that the "same god" teaching has ever been declared infallible by any of the post 1870 popes.
We use the term universal and ordinary magisterium of the Church. This term means a teaching this is universally held everwhere at all times by the people in the Church.

This teaching is PRESUMED to be infallible, and DOES NOT REQUIRE anyother activity on the part of the bishops to assume that the faithful hold the teaching in adfinitive manner.
  #453  
Old May 8, '12, 8:26 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: December 27, 2004
Posts: 15,992
Religion: The Holy Orthodox Church
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
This teaching is PRESUMED to be infallible, and DOES NOT REQUIRE anyother activity on the part of the bishops to assume that the faithful hold the teaching in adfinitive manner.
But what if you have misinterpreted the pope's words...as Benedict says?

If it does say as you presume....are you excommunicated if you refuse to accept it?
  #454  
Old May 8, '12, 8:28 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: December 27, 2004
Posts: 15,992
Religion: The Holy Orthodox Church
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
This teaching is PRESUMED to be infallible
Interesting. I was told that the only mandatory infallible declarations in the Latin Catholic Church…were papal infallibility and the Assumption of the Theotokos.
  #455  
Old May 8, '12, 8:33 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,822
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey View Post
But is it mandatory for you to accept this "same god" teaching....under pain of excommunication or loss of salvation?
I have never felt that way in my life. When you believe that God is speaking to the Pope and is promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to speak in his name, why would you even doubt what is said.

So I feel it is mandatory to accept the word of God. Yes, I do. And do I believe God is leading the Pope? I most certainly do. If I did not I would not be RC. But I have never done it under pain of excommunication or loss of Salvation. To that the answer is NO never.
  #456  
Old May 8, '12, 8:34 am
Armyvet007's Avatar
Armyvet007 Armyvet007 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2011
Posts: 693
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth502 View Post
I believe that what some posters are trying to say on this thread is not that Muslims are praying literally to "a different God," but that their understanding of who God is -- his essence, his "operation," if you will, his relationship with human beings, is profoundly and radically different from the way Christians perceive Him to be.

Again, if you watched this recent Sunday's episode of Franciscan University Presents, you would understand what I mean.

There are some fundamentally incompatible premises between Islam and Christianity regarding man's relationship to God, and God's expectations of man. That includes the Trinity, the nature of Jesus, and what defines "peace."
Do you know where I can find that episode online?
  #457  
Old May 8, '12, 8:38 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,822
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey View Post
But what if you have misinterpreted the pope's words...as Benedict says?

If it does say as you presume....are you excommunicated if you refuse to accept it?
How can I misunderstand the words that Muslims worship God who is one living and subsistent merciful and almighty the creator of heaven and earth.

What is in that sentence that I can misinterpret?
  #458  
Old May 8, '12, 8:44 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,822
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
Nobody denies this. The fact under contention is that this does not mean they have the same understanding of what it is they are worshiping. They are indeed worshiping one God, but that God is not the Trinity. Therefore it is not the SAME God as we worship. This is the bone of contention, the nucleus of the issue. I think there is a good deal NOT said about what the Muslims believe in our CCC. This leaves room for arguments like this. We are left to our own devices.

Nothing is as it first seems
No one ever said that they have the same understanding of God as we do. Please read what I quoted from the Pope.

He said they venerate Jesus as a prophet. and they honor his Mother. Of couse that means they do not see him as God. We never said they see Jesus as God.

But why is everyone trying to change this to Muslims having the same understanding that we do. No one every said that.

The question is who do they worship. And the Church told us they worship God who is One living and subsistent merciful and almighty the creatory of heaven and earth. IS that a different God then us?

I am told here that because they do not accept Christ in the Trinity they do not honor the One True God. The VCll says the opposite.

Please again re-read what I quoted.
  #459  
Old May 8, '12, 8:48 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 11,822
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by devoutchristian View Post
I've heard that the church's position that Muslims worship the same God as Christians constitutes a teaching on faith or morals that Catholics must give religious assent to. Is this true and if so, how is it a teaching on faith or morals?
Here is the thread. Is the Church's position that Muslims worship the same God. Do we worship God who is One living and subsistent merciful and almighty the creator of heaven and earth. Yes we do. Does the Church teach they worship this same God, Yes they do.

So the answer is clear. YES!
  #460  
Old May 8, '12, 8:58 am
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: November 19, 2008
Posts: 9,120
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armyvet007 View Post
Do you know where I can find that episode online?
It's episode 163 and is re-airing today at 1 pm Eastern, and on Thursday, May 10 at 5 am Eastern. (Perhaps you can record one of those two times if you can't watch it.) Also, the paper transcript is available of every episode. I'm not sure if you need to request it from EWTN or from Franciscan University, as I seem to remember some reference to the latter's address in the closing announcements of each program.

The title of this episode (163) is Catholics and Islam. It's hosted by Scott Hahn, who did a masterful hosting job. The guest was author Robert Spencer.

http://www.ewtn.com/tv/index.asp

I looked for online access on the EWTN site, and also on LocateTV, but didn't spend a lot of time looking, since my computer is so slow. You might be able to find it via some internet TV site; I'm not sure (if you do not have access to a TV). If you do not have access to a TV, I recommend requesting a friend or relative to record for you today's or Thursday's repeat broadcast. It is not to be missed, i.m.o. There's way too much PC-spinning of Islam on this thread and in general in this country.

It's silly to talk about "worshipping the same God" when the understanding of that Deity is so very different between the two religions. Also, JP2 was speaking in some pretty broad generalities, and i.m.o. was projecting some very hopeful and possibly prophetic ("visionary," if you will) concepts.
  #461  
Old May 8, '12, 8:58 am
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
No one ever said that they have the same understanding of God as we do. Please read what I quoted from the Pope.

He said they venerate Jesus as a prophet. and they honor his Mother. Of couse that means they do not see him as God. We never said they see Jesus as God.

But why is everyone trying to change this to Muslims having the same understanding that we do. No one every said that.

The question is who do they worship. And the Church told us they worship God who is One living and subsistent merciful and almighty the creatory of heaven and earth. IS that a different God then us?

I am told here that because they do not accept Christ in the Trinity they do not honor the One True God. The VCll says the opposite.

Please again re-read what I quoted.
VII says they worship the Trinity??
  #462  
Old May 8, '12, 9:02 am
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 4,425
Religion: No Elephant In The Living Room Catholic
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
Here is the thread. Is the Church's position that Muslims worship the same God. Do we worship God who is One living and subsistent merciful and almighty the creator of heaven and earth. Yes we do. Does the Church teach they worship this same God, Yes they do.

So the answer is clear. YES!
No. It says they worship the one God. Which could mean their version. Which is wrong and not the Trinity.
  #463  
Old May 8, '12, 9:05 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: December 27, 2004
Posts: 15,992
Religion: The Holy Orthodox Church
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
I have never felt that way in my life. When you believe that God is speaking to the Pope and is promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to speak in his name, why would you even doubt what is said.
So you believe that everything the pope says is infallible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
So I feel it is mandatory to accept the word of God.
That is not what I asked.
  #464  
Old May 8, '12, 9:07 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: December 27, 2004
Posts: 15,992
Religion: The Holy Orthodox Church
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
How can I misunderstand the words that Muslims worship God who is one living and subsistent merciful and almighty the creator of heaven and earth.

What is in that sentence that I can misinterpret?
Read Benedict's post again.
  #465  
Old May 8, '12, 9:08 am
Armyvet007's Avatar
Armyvet007 Armyvet007 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2011
Posts: 693
Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth502 View Post
It's episode 163 and is re-airing today at 1 pm Eastern, and on Thursday, May 10 at 5 am Eastern. (Perhaps you can record one of those two times if you can't watch it.) Also, the paper transcript is available of every episode. I'm not sure if you need to request it from EWTN or from Franciscan University, as I seem to remember some reference to the latter's address in the closing announcements of each program.

The title of this episode (163) is Catholics and Islam. It's hosted by Scott Hahn, who did a masterful hosting job. The guest was author Robert Spencer.

http://www.ewtn.com/tv/index.asp
Thank you for the timely info. I'll be able to watch it in an hour [and get to avoid reading through the transcripts ].
Closed Thread

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8032Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
4819CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: James_OPL
4286Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: lsbar
4027OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: fencersmother
3810SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3363Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: James_OPL
3184Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: libralion
3145Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
2959For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Kellyreneeomara
2683Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 2:29 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2013, Catholic Answers.