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  #496  
Old May 8, '12, 10:27 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
"Most papal and conciliar teachings pertain to the Church’s ordinary teaching authority (magisterium) and are understood as authentic teachings—but not infallible in the sense of Vatican I’s teaching about infallibility."(http://www.americancatholic.org/mess...04/Wiseman.asp)

There are two levels of assent to magisterial teachings:

1. the full assent of faith (theological assent, or sacred assent) for infallible magisterial teachings (i.e. formal dogmas).
2. the religious submission of will and intellect (religious assent, or ordinary assent) for non-infallible teachings (doctrines, but not dogmas). (http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/levels-of-assent.htm)

Pope John Paul II: "With respect to the non-infallible expressions of the authentic magisterium of the Church, these should be received with religious submission of mind and will." (Address to U.S. Bishops, 1988).
That is how I always understood it....but then I am no longer in communion with Rome.

Also....there are many Catholics who think that the CCC is an infallible document.
  #497  
Old May 8, '12, 10:28 am
catharina catharina is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
Muslims say so!!!
Ahhh, so glad you clarified this.
Now it's clear.
You believe Moslems over the teachings of our Holy Catholic Church.

  #498  
Old May 8, '12, 10:30 am
catharina catharina is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by jam070406 View Post
No one has disputed this.
It's when you move past this point that you go off the rails.
And convolute teaching that confuses you.
Hmmmm.

Thought I was addressing Elizabeth.
Wait!!! I was addressing Elizabeth.

Some folks are so easily confused.

Must be their adherence to
opposing the teachings of the Church.

Yep - of course.
  #499  
Old May 8, '12, 10:33 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
Please show your proof that the Pope is teaching us a falsehood here.
Since so many people have been confused by these statements....I would love to see pope Benendict clarify the position. Some in your Church say that it is a misinterpretation. Others say it is not an infallible teaching, does not affect salvation, and is not worth the time spent debating.

I am not in your Church and I do not know if there is a falsehood being proposed.....a misinterpretation......or a lame attempt at ecumenism. I just know that the muslims reject Christ.....they reject the Holy Trinity....therefore there is no way that they are showing adoration to the one true God.
  #500  
Old May 8, '12, 10:34 am
catharina catharina is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
Where do you get this from? You seem to believe Muslims believe in the same God you do. They certainly do not believe in my God - the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I get it from YOU.


In Post 537 you present your reasoning
(opposed to the teachings of the Church)
as dependent upon what MOSLEMS say.

WOW.
  #501  
Old May 8, '12, 10:36 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
Shame you are no longer in communion with Rome.
Depends on your perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
The CCC is infallible in matters of faith and morals. But there is much more in the CCC. For instance, we are given guidance about how to feel about other religions. Thing is, I think where Muslims are concerned, there is MUCH confusion.
Agreed.

Since the Catechism treats many things that not only have not been taught infallibly but which also have been proposed in the most tentative of fashions (esp. in the area of social teaching), there remains due liberty for theologians (and others) when they encounter something that has been proposed only tentatively.
Cardinal Ratzinger
  #502  
Old May 8, '12, 10:37 am
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by catharina View Post
Hmmmm.

Thought I was addressing Elizabeth.
Wait!!! I was addressing Elizabeth.

Some folks are so easily confused.

Must be their adherence to
opposing the teachings of the Church.

Yep - of course.
No opposing teaching here. Just know it very WELL.

Guess you weren't referencing me in your rant to Elizabeth. My bad.
  #503  
Old May 8, '12, 10:39 am
catharina catharina is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
I get it. You are resorting to insulting me. Is that because you cannot reason your way out of your obdurate stance? You obviously have not been keeping up with ALL of my posts. If you keep this level of argument up, I will simply ignore you.
Insulting you? No. I simply quoted you accurately.
No problem at all for me. Simply surprised to see what you admitted.

  #504  
Old May 8, '12, 10:39 am
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
I get it. You are resorting to insulting me. Is that because you cannot reason your way out of your obdurate stance? You obviously have not been keeping up with ALL of my posts. If you keep this level of argument up, I will simply ignore you.
Your assessment is spot on.
  #505  
Old May 8, '12, 10:40 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenedictFTW View Post
Where do you get this from? You seem to believe Muslims believe in the same God you do. They certainly do not believe in my God - the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Really. So you are saying the ONE TRUE GOD the creator of heaven and earth is not your God. You have a different God?

You are saying the ONE TRUE GOD the Creator of heaven and earth is a different God then the God of the Trinity?
  #506  
Old May 8, '12, 10:43 am
catharina catharina is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
Really. So you are saying the ONE TRUE GOD the creator of heaven and earth is not your God. You have a different God?

You are saying the ONE TRUE GOD the Creator of heaven and earth is a different God then the God of the Trinity?


Circuitous thinking leads to many bizarre statements.
Absolutely, most people understand that God is GOD.
MOST people, not all people.
  #507  
Old May 8, '12, 10:48 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

This amazes me when we state.

I believe in ONE GOD, the FATHER ALMIGHTY THE MAKER OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.

and the Muslims profess they believe in the One God the Almighty the maker of heaven and earth.

But you are saying just because the Muslims do not see the fullness of this One God creator of heaven and earth in the fullness of the truth that is given to the Church in revelation then it makes the ONE TRUE GOD false. Amazing.

So many of the Prophets are in big trouble. Moses never saw the ONE GOD creator of heaven and earth in the fullness of the Trinity. He has to be in trouble also. Abraham did not either.

Jesus did not reveal to us the fullness of the Trinity until we had the CC.

Why did Abraham not teach us to baptise in the name of the Trinity, I mean if he knew it, why did he keep it from us? Why were we not taught to pray in the name of the Trinity? Did Abraham forget?
  #508  
Old May 8, '12, 10:49 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

I find it rather ironic that Christians can reach out an ecumenical hand and state that the Trinitarian God is the same as the Islamic object of adoration (allah).

And yet the Quran calls Christians blasphemers.

"They do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One Alah".Surah 5:73
  #509  
Old May 8, '12, 10:52 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
Moses never saw the ONE GOD creator of heaven and earth in the fullness of the Trinity.
Yes he did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
Abraham did not either.
Yes he did.
  #510  
Old May 8, '12, 10:52 am
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
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Default Re: Church teaching on Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
This amazes me when we state.

I believe in ONE GOD, the FATHER ALMIGHTY THE MAKER OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.

and the Muslims profess they believe in the One God the Almighty the maker of heaven and earth.

But you are saying just because the Muslims do not see the fullness of this One God creator of heaven and earth in the fullness of the truth that is given to the Church in revelation then it makes the ONE TRUE GOD false. Amazing.

So many of the Prophets are in big trouble. Moses never saw the ONE GOD creator of heaven and earth in the fullness of the Trinity. He has to be in trouble also. Abraham did not either.

Jesus did not reveal to us the fullness of the Trinity until we had the CC.

Why did Abraham not teach us to baptise in the name of the Trinity, I mean if he knew it, why did he keep it from us? Why were we not taught to pray in the name of the Trinity? Did Abraham forget?
Did Abraham say bow to Mecca 5 times a day? Apparently.
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