Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Philosophy
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #31  
Old Apr 10, '12, 3:38 pm
Qoeleth Qoeleth is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2010
Posts: 1,366
Religion: Catholic/Philosopher
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Think about Job. It was not God who gave the suffering. No, it was the Devil, Lucifer, the god of this World, the Father of Lies, the Lord of the Flies, the Tempter, the Deceiver, Mara.

The sources of suffering are the flesh, the World, the Devil. God redeems us from this suffering.

If we were really 'good people'- there would be no Fall and no suffering. Insofar as we (collectively) are not 'good people', we suffer.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old Apr 10, '12, 3:55 pm
CHRISTINE77's Avatar
CHRISTINE77 CHRISTINE77 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Posts: 3,660
Religion: CATHOLIC
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Here is a great article on God's answer to suffering, by Peter Kreeft:

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/suffering.htm

Actually his whole website is fantastic.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old Apr 10, '12, 4:44 pm
BobCatholic BobCatholic is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 4,493
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qoeleth View Post
God redeems us from this suffering.
Not until we have passed over into eternal life. Until then, our bodies are not redeemed. Romans 8.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old Apr 11, '12, 5:38 am
Gaber Gaber is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: April 8, 2012
Posts: 1,043
Religion: Ronin Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCatholic View Post
Not until we have passed over into eternal life. Until then, our bodies are not redeemed. Romans 8.
Once again, there is a functional distinction between pain and suffering. Pain is inevitable and is an informational dynamic of living bodies. Suffering is voluntary, that being the thoughts we choose to accept about the pain which don't conform to reality. So we can have pain without suffering.

And I would be hard pressed to imagine a loving God creating a body incapable of pain. People would be mangling themselves and not realize it until something didn't work. Might as well get rid of taste, too.

We could say something about the nature of the delayed gratificatin aspect of our faith here, but we will avoid scandal by remaining silent about that.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old Apr 11, '12, 11:23 am
tonyrey tonyrey is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: March 30, 2009
Posts: 17,100
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaber View Post
Once again, there is a functional distinction between pain and suffering. Pain is inevitable and is an informational dynamic of living bodies. Suffering is voluntary, that being the thoughts we choose to accept about the pain which don't conform to reality. So we can have pain without suffering.

And I would be hard pressed to imagine a loving God creating a body incapable of pain. People would be mangling themselves and not realize it until something didn't work. Might as well get rid of taste, too.

We could say something about the nature of the delayed gratification aspect of our faith here, but we will avoid scandal by remaining silent about that.
Good points! Although to remain silent could imply delayed gratification is a source of embarrassment. If we deserve to be happy then it should be broadcast from the hilltops...
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old Apr 11, '12, 4:24 pm
shoe's Avatar
shoe shoe is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 1,274
Religion: fellow Christian
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

I think that life itself by definition brings into existence the very real possibility of suffering for all mankind. Perhaps a reason or two that God allows suffering to happen even to "good people" is that suffering may be something that enables God to develop their patience, to check on their loyalty, or simply to change their life's direction. And God may also use suffering to give human beings the opportunity to discover just who or what they have placed their faith in - and just how deep they have planted their faith in "who" or "what." And if they have placed their faith in Jesus, then any human-sized pain or suffering isn't going to push them away from the Love of God.

Living with pain or suffering for any reason is not an easy thing for people to do; but all mankind's pain and suffering is but a minor detail when compared with the measureless amount of pain and suffering that the Son of God experienced when He was mocked, scourged, and crucified by mankind for the sins of mankind. And I think that the amount of suffering that God experienced when He witnessed His beloved Son die on the cross for the sins of the world in order that mankind could spend eternity with Him was absolutely measureless (measureless in the sense that God Himself is beyond any human measure).
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old Apr 11, '12, 4:29 pm
Darran's Avatar
Darran Darran is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Posts: 606
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Suffering is one of the greatest blessings we have. If the angels could be jelous of man of anything, it would be to be able to suffer for God.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old Apr 11, '12, 5:21 pm
PumpkinSeed PumpkinSeed is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 2012
Posts: 641
Religion: Follower of Christ
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Everyone suffers in someway sometime in life. Nobody is exempt from it. Imagine if nobody suffered. That would mean there would be no such thing as sin. And that's just not possible. As people sin, things go more and more downhill. Through our suffering in life, we learn many lessons. Also, define a "good person". Everyone sins, so no one is innocent, right? (not including animals and babies)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old Apr 12, '12, 6:12 am
Gaber Gaber is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: April 8, 2012
Posts: 1,043
Religion: Ronin Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darran View Post
Suffering is one of the greatest blessings we have. If the angels could be jelous of man of anything, it would be to be able to suffer for God.
Really? I have always been ver curious and intensly interested in matters religons and mystic since early childhood. None of it had to do with suffering, (or pain, as I distinguish mightily between the two. Suffering is imo unresourceful thinking about pain.) The closest I got to pain in the matter of wishing to seek God, which came, it seems , to me naturally from simply being, might have been what is called "cognative dissonace."

One kind of cognative dissonance is the difference between one's experience and an aquired explanation of it. Despite an excellent Catholic school education, I didn't
completely "buy" many of the things I heard. As things unfolded, I realized that that was a good thing, as when after a particularly stron mystical experience I started to look into the history of the Church, a rather interesting thing emerged for me regarding the nature of Church teaching. As devoted and as missionary like as I might have been at one time, I gained a much greater perspective from what might be called the original definition of the word "catholic."

Since that time I have felt blessed to grow in practical understanding regarding spirtual matters in a way I never would have dreamed of had I remained stuck in the understanding of my youth. But again, neither I nor many people I know whom I consider to have great spiritual understanding arrived at it primarily because of suffering, even if they went through a stage of that. For them, as it is for me, it was a matter if passionate curiosity and desire to know God. I guess if someone is overly emotional about that and theyu get unresourceful in their thinking and feeling, it could be called suffering.

Having said all that, I would guess that someone who did go through a lot of pain and thought about it in a confused and emotional way might either then seek God or blame and reject God. So in my way of thinking, suffering as a spiritual motivation is a dice game whose name the automatic censor on here would delete. If only there were some such mechanism that would delete all our falsly pious ideas about suffering.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old Apr 12, '12, 7:24 am
A G's Avatar
A G A G is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Posts: 617
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

In short, suffering is in the world due to original sin that we inherited from Adam.


God does not want us to suffer, but it is allowed in the world. We all have a cross to carry (some crosses are bigger than others, or at least it seems that way), and we must carry it. Jesus embraced his cross, and those that saw this at the time were puzzled. There is suffering in the world as a result of original sin that entered into this world, however no matter how much we are put through these "tests," we must always be faithful and loyal to God. God does have a plan for the whole world, even if we cannot understand what at the moment. However we must always keep the faith. When Jesus was suffering for us, He accepted it because it was the Father's will. We must always submit to His will, and our reward will be far greater then we can imagine. If not in this life, then in Heaven.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old Apr 12, '12, 9:18 am
Gaber Gaber is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: April 8, 2012
Posts: 1,043
Religion: Ronin Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A G View Post
In short, suffering is in the world due to original sin that we inherited from Adam.
OK, that's good. But now, since you are, I guess, either in, or graduated from university, I wonder if you have considered going beyond the superficial folk interpretation of that story to something more meaningful? I'm thinking of the dynamic suggested by Jesus' parables: they have at least three elvels of meaning. And on top of that, it says in the Bible that after He spoke in parables to the public, He spoke in fulness to His desciples inprivate. And we don't seem to have any of that, except by conjecture. And as accurate as a "message" or a revelation or "guidance" might be from the Holy Spirit, any "spiritual" conveyence is yet only interprtable in the symbols already in habituated use by the receiver So can we go beyond this initial and first base understanding?
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old Apr 12, '12, 6:43 pm
BobCatholic BobCatholic is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 4,493
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaber View Post
Suffering is voluntary, that being the thoughts we choose to accept about the pain which don't conform to reality. So we can have pain without suffering.
Suffering is not voluntary. If it were, then all those who are suffering must be masochists.

Quote:
And I would be hard pressed to imagine a loving God creating a body incapable of pain. People would be mangling themselves and not realize it until something didn't work. Might as well get rid of taste, too.
Then explain this.

A loving God created Adam and Eve imperfect. Depending on how the serpent scene is interpreted, Adam and Eve showed proof of their imperfections.

Was the serpent slick? Then Adam and Eve were stupid (an imperfection) and did something stupid and fell (resulting from the imperfection)

Or maybe the serpent was 50 feet tall and very intimidating. Then they both had the imperfection of fear and acted fearful and fell. (again, resulting from the imperfection)

Or maybe the serpent talked plainly and Adam and Eve were naive, believing everything it said as true. And then they acted out of naivete....and fell.

Either which way, God then punished them for falling as a result of their imperfections. And then punishing us temporally for their sins too.

Doesn't sound loving to me.

Sure, God loves us spiritually. No doubt in my mind there. Jesus' sacrifice took care of that, showed God's love there.

But temporally? I have doubts.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old Apr 12, '12, 6:44 pm
BobCatholic BobCatholic is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 4,493
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A G View Post
In short, suffering is in the world due to original sin that we inherited from Adam.
We are being held temporally responsible for the sin from Adam and Eve. I don't think that's fair.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old Apr 13, '12, 4:44 am
A G's Avatar
A G A G is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Posts: 617
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

I understand what you are saying, however we must put our faith in Jesus and the Church that He founded. It may not seem "fair" to you, and at times I find myself saying the same thing, but remember that this world is full of sin. This world has good, but also it has evil lurking around. That being said, you cannot expect a perfect world.

Jesus did die for us, and He is always there for us. Maybe our prayers get answered right away, and maybe at other times they get answered years from now. In either case, we must remain faithful.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old Apr 13, '12, 4:54 am
A G's Avatar
A G A G is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Posts: 617
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Why good people suffer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaber View Post
OK, that's good. But now, since you are, I guess, either in, or graduated from university, I wonder if you have considered going beyond the superficial folk interpretation of that story to something more meaningful? I'm thinking of the dynamic suggested by Jesus' parables: they have at least three elvels of meaning. And on top of that, it says in the Bible that after He spoke in parables to the public, He spoke in fulness to His desciples inprivate. And we don't seem to have any of that, except by conjecture. And as accurate as a "message" or a revelation or "guidance" might be from the Holy Spirit, any "spiritual" conveyence is yet only interprtable in the symbols already in habituated use by the receiver So can we go beyond this initial and first base understanding?
I graduated from university (best 4 years of my life). Anyway, my friend, all I know is I'm putting all my faith in Christ. Many things are still mysteries to us, but the point is no matter what life throws at us, we must remain faithful. Nobody suffered more than the Lord for us, no matter what. Just remember the agony at the garden of Gethsemane alone. All the sins were on His shoulders at that moment. Your sins, my sins, that persons sins, etc... He was sweating blood! This is suffering that we cannot imagine, and it was done for us.

Rememer LUKE 22:42 :

“Father, if you are willing, let this cup pass from me; however not my will, but yours be done.”
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8304Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
5071CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4358Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: lsbar
4035OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: 3DOCTORS
3853SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3616Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3264Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3212Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3202Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3069For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Theresa DeSensi



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:52 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.