Life after death........that is THE question....................

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Originally Posted by GEddie

Body is far more than clothing, as our LORD Himself said.

Body does not just cover your mind or psyche; it breathes, smells, sees, moves and speaks for you. You can't be alive without your body, as you would then be literally nobody.

Yet Saint Paul did compare them. He also expressed his desire to be "further clothed" in what he elsewhere called the pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA

Well, that is a metaphor.
In the Artic Pole or Canada or Vermont, your body wont survive without clothes.

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Originally Posted by Gaber

Life isn't "before" or "after" death. Life IS. "You" is the mental construct with which you identify your awareness, which wrong identification blinds you to the actual nature of your being. So it can be said on that basis that "you" are the "world" you wander through. You make it up according to the limitations and freedoms you accept for yourslf. For most people, even in their "spirituality" that is materialsitic in essence.

Your writing is tough to understand.
Now let me see if I understood you.
I think you put too much emphasis in the circumstances.
There is a Spanish Philosopher, Ortega y Gasset, who says: "Me and my circumstance".
I think that you are following Jean-Paul Sartre Definition that essence comes after existence and not like the Scholastics said that Essence precedes Existence.
Well, I agree with Sartre what we are what our decisions and our circumstances allow us to be.
BUT, I think that in the end, God plays a great part on it.
How to join God's power with human freedom has been discussed in the last 1000 years and I am not going to solve the problem.
For I do not know.

[Cinette]

Originally Posted by LilyM

Ah, but we're not just dirt! We stopped being that when God breathed His own spirit into Adam's nostrils. And we're even less 'just dirt' when His own son ennobled humanity by taking on humanity Himself.

I am a revert and learning new things all the time.

The other evening a member of my Faith Sharing Group asked a question that had us stumped! Where do our bodies reside when we die until the Final Judgment???

Yes where.......? Could we go to heaven and then go thru the Final Judgment at the end of time? Or, since there is no "time" in Eternity the Judgment might just take place as each of us die?? Looking forward to your response.

Thank you
Cinette

[Gaber]

Originally Posted by Pfaffenhoffen

Your writing is tough to understand.

No kidding! I get that a lot, and no wonder. I was brought up in the old school Catholic system and my Dad's side of the family were all authors, both popular and obscure. On top of that, my views and exegesis are from an uncommon standpoint. Most people don't acknowledge my expereintial premise and think it impossible, and imaginary as well, I am not surprised, and even greatly expect, that only that community which has similar expereince to mine would "get" most of what I say. And mine isn't even a particualry spectacular example of that group. The few I've read on here of that ilk don't ususally stay long. Too exasperating.

Now let me see if I understood you.
I think you put too much emphasis in the circumstances.
There is a Spanish Philosopher, Ortega y Gasset, who says: "Me and my circumstance".

Love Ortega y Gasset! Few people have mentioned him. I often have used his example of the dying man relevant to viewpoint, and his idea of the window pane as relevant to viewing art. Genius.

I think that you are following Jean-Paul Sartre Definition that essence comes after existence and not like the Scholastics said that Essence precedes Existence.
Well, I agree with Sartre what we are what our decisions and our circumstances allow us to be.

No, I'm not following Sartre. But if you express him accurately in that brief statement, then I would say he has it right, so as far as the personality is concerned. But we are not esentially personality, the root of that word meaning "mask," or what is spoken through. And while Essence underlies existence, it is "before" it onl in that sense, as Essence, like eternality, has no element of duration.

BUT, I think that in the end, God plays a great part on it.
How to join God's power with human freedom has been discussed in the last 1000 years and I am not going to solve the problem.
For I do not know.

Yes, God is ALL of it, as we so readily confess but so little understand. And it has been discussed far far longer than just the last 1K years, lol! but if you can find the "off" switch for your discursive mind, you will do much better than if you think about it for several lifetimes!

[Cinette]

Originally Posted by Gaber

No kidding! I get that a lot, and no wonder. I was brought up in the old school Catholic system and my Dad's side of the family were all authors, both popular and obscure. On top of that, my views and exegesis are from an uncommon standpoint. Most people don't acknowledge my expereintial premise and think it impossible, and imaginary as well, I am not surprised, and even greatly expect, that only that community which has similar expereince to mine would "get" most of what I say. Just keep your sentences short and noone will complain!And mine isn't even a particualry spectacular example of that group. The few I've read on here of that ilk don't ususally stay long. Too exasperating.

[Gaber]

I enjoyed your interjection. And I like blue.

It is a musical thing, Cinette. We are used to 4/4 time and short measures. I've always had an innate appreciation for the long and very long rhytmic cyles of classical music from India. It is hard to keep up with a, say, 15 beat cyle, but it is very rewarding, and you can say things that way otherwise inexpressible. But I will see if I can "keep it down."
Oh, hey! I did use a short sentence in the reply above your post:

Genius!

Uh. that was supposed to be a period instead of a comma, before "I'm not surprised....."

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by Cinette

I am a revert and learning new things all the time.

The other evening a member of my Faith Sharing Group asked a question that had us stumped! Where do our bodies reside when we die until the Final Judgment???

Yes where.......? Could we go to heaven and then go thru the Final Judgment at the end of time? Or, since there is no "time" in Eternity the Judgment might just take place as each of us die?? Looking forward to your response.

Thank you
Cinette

Your body does not reside anywhere in death, it disintegrates. Anybody who has been dead more than about 100 years would not have a dead body to come back to.

A skeleton is not a body; a heap of bones is not a body; even a mummy is not a human body, as a human body holds life, and those objects cannot.

Rather, your body is reassembled on the other side of eternity, in Heaven, as you said. You need a body for being, because you are alive and your body holds and expresses your life. You will be a human body, but an upgraded version, as S. Paul said, pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by Gaber

No kidding! I get that a lot, and no wonder. I was brought up in the old school Catholic system and my Dad's side of the family were all authors, both popular and obscure. On top of that, my views and exegesis are from an uncommon standpoint. Most people don't acknowledge my expereintial premise and think it impossible, and imaginary as well, I am not surprised, and even greatly expect, that only that community which has similar expereince to mine would "get" most of what I say. And mine isn't even a particualry spectacular example of that group. The few I've read on here of that ilk don't ususally stay long. Too exasperating.


Love Ortega y Gasset! Few people have mentioned him. I often have used his example of the dying man relevant to viewpoint, and his idea of the window pane as relevant to viewing art. Genius.
No, I'm not following Sartre. But if you express him accurately in that brief statement, then I would say he has it right, so as far as the personality is concerned. But we are not esentially personality, the root of that word meaning "mask," or what is spoken through. And while Essence underlies existence, it is "before" it onl in that sense, as Essence, like eternality, has no element of duration.
Yes, God is ALL of it, as we so readily confess but so little understand. And it has been discussed far far longer than just the last 1K years, lol! but if you can find the "off" switch for your discursive mind, you will do much better than if you think about it for several lifetimes!

Gabe, amigo,

I have no doubt that you have had experiences.

But certainly you see that your experiences are not evidence, let alone proof, for anybody else?

And there is NO way that I am going to turn off my "discursive mind". Death will do that to everybody soon enough. Mind is what we are about!

ICXC NIKA

[Gaber]

Originally Posted by GEddie

Gabe, amigo,

I have no doubt that you have had experiences.

But certainly you see that your experiences are not evidence, let alone proof, for anybody else?

And there is NO way that I am going to turn off my "discursive mind". Death will do that to everybody soon enough. Mind is what we are about!

ICXC NIKA

Yes, and your inability to see past it allows you to speak as you do. And I did not propose my expereince as evidence. Your declining my inviation to see for yourself ought be enough proof that it was an encouragemnet to go beyond your self imposed limitations.

Mind, discursive mind, is what we are about, and is the problem, as it is ncomplete, the devider, the "adversary." It is why it is recommended to die consciously so that the second death, the one you speak of, has no sting.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

[Cinette]

Originally Posted by Gaber

I enjoyed your interjection. And I like blue.

It is a musical thing, Cinette. We are used to 4/4 time and short measures. I've always had an innate appreciation for the long and very long rhytmic cyles of classical music from India. It is hard to keep up with a, say, 15 beat cyle, but it is very rewarding, and you can say things that way otherwise inexpressible. But I will see if I can "keep it down."
Oh, hey! I did use a short sentence in the reply above your post:

Uh. that was supposed to be a period instead of a comma, before "I'm not surprised....."

I spent 12 years in a Portuguese colony where I learned the language at my workplace. The Portuguese have the habit of writing the longest sentences - an entire paragraph sometimes! An entire page! I remember I had to re-read the sentences several times as I progressed, having to break up the sentence because I would forget what was being said at the beginning.... and then in the middle..... and .......!!!

[fhansen]

Originally Posted by Gaber

Mind, discursive mind, is what we are about, and is the problem, as it is ncomplete, the devider, the "adversary." It is why it is recommended to die consciously so that the second death, the one you speak of, has no sting.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

The reason Christians believe death has no sting is simply because they literally believe in the resurrection-and the promise of eternal life which involves or depends on it. Could you try to explain how the sting of death is removed when the discursive mind dies? Is real knowledge gained regarding ones eternal fate?

[Cinette]

Originally Posted by GEddie

Your body does not reside anywhere in death, it disintegrates. Anybody who has been dead more than about 100 years would not have a dead body to come back to.

A skeleton is not a body; a heap of bones is not a body; even a mummy is not a human body, as a human body holds life, and those objects cannot.

Rather, your body is reassembled on the other side of eternity, in Heaven, as you said. You need a body for being, because you are alive and your body holds and expresses your life. You will be a human body, but an upgraded version, as S. Paul said, pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA

I have not expressed myself very well I am afraid. I was talking of our resurrected bodies and our spirit. It is said that we will be reunited with our bodies.

Where do we "reside" when we die while we "wait" for the final judgment?

Have I explained myself a little better now? Do you understand?

Cinette

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by Cinette

I have not expressed myself very well I am afraid. I was talking of our resurrected bodies and our spirit. It is said that we will be reunited with our bodies.

Where do we "reside" when we die while we "wait" for the final judgment?

Have I explained myself a little better now? Do you understand?

Cinette

Ok, I understand a bit more now; you did not really mean the body?

It doesn't really change. The other life lies outside of time as we know it. As far as you know, you will be reassembled at once. Egeiretai pneumatikon soma (it is raised a spiritual body).

If there was any waiting, you wouldn't know it, because you need your head for "knowing", just as you need your eyes to see, and your limbs to move.

ICXC NIKA

[J_Peterson]

Originally Posted by itullian

maybe just because it seems too good to be true doesn't mean it's not true.
i guess

When I was still in my atheist/agnostic phase, I thought that Christianity couldn't be right because it just seemed too simple. Maybe it seems too simple because it is true. The piece fits the puzzle perfectly so it appears to be too good to be true.

Maybe try not to think too much about what happens after you die and focus on what you have now. Seek God through prayer and forget about heaven and hell, we don't have any say what happens anyway. For whatever reason, our life on earth is important, otherwise why would God put us here?

[Zosimus41]

Originally Posted by itullian

God, the Universe, the Bible, Mary, Jesus

all mean NOTHING if there's no life after death. And i don't mean ambiguous life,i mean self identity, take what you learned with you life. right?

i'm having trouble thinking this is real. seems so fantastic i just can't believe it.
how do we believe in something so fantastic?

and nothing makes any sense or means anything if we're just dirt, but...............

don't know, but there it is, right?

III. THE CHARACTERISTICS OF FAITH

Faith is a grace

153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come "from flesh and blood", but from "my Father who is in heaven".24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"25