Top 5 Reasons People Think You Aren't Churches

[Peter J]

We recently had a thread (dormant at present) about reasons people think you aren't Catholic. I think a good follow-up would be to talk about reasons that people think your (EC) Church is "a rite" rather than a Church. (I don't know if some reasons will duplicate the other thread or not. Personally, it's fine with me if they do.)

Anyone care to start?

[adrift]

I would like some definitions of what a rite is and what a church is?

[KateKimmer]

Call me stupid, but I do not understand what you are asking.

[WoundedIcon]

He means "Why do people think you're just Roman Catholics with different trappings?"

[Peter J]

Originally Posted by KateKimmer

Call me stupid, but I do not understand what you are asking.

For example, when people speak of "22 Eastern Catholic rites" (instead of 22 Eastern Catholic churches which is the correct thing to say).

If you want to be called stupid, ask somebody else.

[Skeptic92]

Originally Posted by Peter J

For example, when people speak of "22 Eastern Catholic rites" (instead of 22 Eastern Catholic churches which is the correct thing to say).

If you want to be called stupid, ask somebody else.

The Eastern Catholic Churches are 'Rites of the Catholic Church' the exact same as the Western Catholic Church is a Rite of the Catholic Church (The Latin-Rite), together they make the Catholic Church. It is proper when referring to the Catholic Church to specify which Rite in particular you are talking about (Latin, one of the Byzantine, Alexandrian etc), as just saying the Catholic Church would encompass the Latin Rite and all the Eastern Rites.

[LegoGE1947]

Originally Posted by Skeptic92

The Eastern Catholic Churches are 'Rites of the Catholic Church' the exact same as the Western Catholic Church is a Rite of the Catholic Church (The Latin-Rite), together they make the Catholic Church. It is proper when referring to the Catholic Church to specify which Rite in particular you are talking about (Latin, one of the Byzantine, Alexandrian etc), as just saying the Catholic Church would encompass the Latin Rite and all the Eastern Rites.

I once thought rite was the opposite of left!

[adrift]

Originally Posted by LegoGE1947

I once thought rite was the opposite of left!

[Peter J]

Originally Posted by Skeptic92

The Eastern Catholic Churches are 'Rites of the Catholic Church'

This ^^ is just the kind of statement I'm talking about.

[Skeptic92]

Originally Posted by Peter J

This ^^ is just the kind of statement I'm talking about.

Instead of quoting the first few words of my statement, it would help to understand that I said that the Catholic Church is composed of 23/24 Rites (I am unsure of the total number), including the Roman/Latin Rite. It would be improper to call them separate Churches due to the connotation this generally carries, as to them being a separate denomination, they are Rites WITHIN the Catholic Church.

[RyanBlack]

Originally Posted by Skeptic92

The Eastern Catholic Churches are 'Rites of the Catholic Church' the exact same as the Western Catholic Church is a Rite of the Catholic Church (The Latin-Rite), together they make the Catholic Church. It is proper when referring to the Catholic Church to specify which Rite in particular you are talking about (Latin, one of the Byzantine, Alexandrian etc), as just saying the Catholic Church would encompass the Latin Rite and all the Eastern Rites.

No. The 22 Eastern Catholic Churches are particular churches of the Catholic Church. They are not rites, and neither is the Western (Roman) Catholic Church a rite. It is a Church. Rite refers to the particular form of liturgy (Alexandrian, Byzantine, Roman, etc.) There can be multiple churches associated with a particular rite (Byzantine, for example), and a particular church can be associated with more than one rite (the Roman Catholic Church, for example).

[RyanBlack]

Originally Posted by Skeptic92

Instead of quoting the first few words of my statement, it would help to understand that I said that the Catholic Church is composed of 23/24 Rites (I am unsure of the total number), including the Roman/Latin Rite. It would be improper to call them separate Churches due to the connotation this generally carries, as to them being a separate denomination, they are Rites WITHIN the Catholic Church.

It is not at all improper to call them churches, since that is what the universal Church herself calls them.

[Jaypeeto4]

Skeptic92,
I believe that what you have stated is the most correct so far.

Peace,
Jaypeeto4

[Skeptic92]

Originally Posted by RyanBlack

It is not at all improper to call them churches, since that is what the universal Church herself calls them.

The term Ecclesia in Latin or ἐκκλησία in Greek (which is what our Holy Mother Church calls them) have different connotations (implied meaning vs denotation which is the literal meaning) to Church in English. Church in English bring about a connotation of a separation like being a different denomination, whereas being different Rite of our Holy Mother Church shows a unity while not being exactly the same, they are apart of the same One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. This fact may not be carried by calling us all separate Churches due to the words connotations, whereas the word Rite carries different connotations. In Greek and Latin it may be proper to call them Ecclesia/ἐκκλησία, but it's a different kettle of fish in English.

[RyanBlack]

Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4

Skeptic92,
I believe that what you have stated is the most correct so far.

Peace,
Jaypeeto4

No, what Skeptic92 has stated is incorrect. There are not 22 particular rites in communion with the Church of Rome, there are 22 particular churches. This is the language used by the universal Church. Check the CCC, Section 814. It states, "Holding a rightful place in the communion of the Church there are also particular CHURCHES that retain their own traditions. The great richness of such diversity is not opposed to the Church's unity."