I don't understand Traditionalism and its hurting my marriage - Page 9

Cider · #**121** Apr 26, '12, 10:49 am

I hope the OP has not come back to this thread.

mattkubes · #**122** Apr 26, '12, 2:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nute

There is one Catholic church with many licit masses, not many Catholic churches. Also, the mass is not primarily a spectator event that makes you feel a certain way. The mass is a prayer and an offering to Christ who offers back to the parishioners via the priest his living body and his living blood.

I'm sorry, what? This sounds a little heterodox to me. The Mass is the re-presentation of the offering at Calvary - the offering of the Son to the Father (We humbly beseech Thee, almighty God, to command that these our offerings be borne by the hands of Thy holy angel to Thine altar on high in the presence of Thy divine Majesty... etc). We then take part in that same sacrifice. What you posted does not accurately describe the sacrificial and propitiatory nature of the Mass.

Diana Catherine · #**123** Apr 26, '12, 4:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightflier101BL

On top of that, my wife and I had confession with one of the priests who is very hardcore Traditionalist and was stern and angry, and somewhat unsympathetic during her confession, which didn't help matters for my wife.

Just kind of saying, I went to confession at an OF not too long ago and the priest was that way. He actually yelled slightly at me twice. I think maybe that is a personality issue.

Diana Catherine · #**124** Apr 26, '12, 5:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nute

I hope the women who initially posted here has gotten this far in the thread. This thread
is about her situation and her needs, not whether or not a particular Latin mass is valid
or beautiful.

I'm so glad someone posted a warning about his mother and sisters who lost their faith because they, "weren't Catholic enough." These people need to be in our prayers.

Mrs. so and so, if you are reading this:

1) Abuse does not get better no matter how much you love the person.

2) Abuse has to be confronted ASAP where you must find the courage to take additional
steps if necessary.

3) Spiritual abuse is abuse where abuse is not part of marriage.

4) Having more children in an abusive situation will not improve the situation even though
children are always a beautiful gift from God.

Children deserve to be the result of a loving union between a husband and wife.

The steps to deal with abuse:

1) Tell your spouse you feel hurt and request he join you in an appropriate, safe, and
neutral setting that fascilitates talking and problem solving.

- Find a priest to advise the two of you spiritually.

2) If 1 doesn't work, take courage and get a legal seperation.

3) If 2 doesn't work, file for divorce.

4) If he is still abusive, fight him for full custody of the children and file for an anullment.

Think 3 years, no longer, to address abuse. I recommend 1 year per step and I hope if you get to 3 that divorce moves quickly for you.

I have never been married, but I have experienced sexual abuse at the hands of an older woman who will remain nameless. Loving her didn't stop the abuse let alone cause a long term relationship to form.

ABUSE IS NOT PART OF MARRIAGE. CONSISTENT UNRELENTING ABUSE IS GROUNDS TO LEAVE A MARRIAGE. IF LEAVING IS NOT SUFFICIENT, THE
CHURCH MAY GRANT AN ANULLMENT AFTER A DIVORCE IS SECURED. ALL
REASONABLE EFFORT AND STEPS MUST BE TAKEN TO RESOLVE THE MARITAL PROBLEMS AND SAVE THE MARRIAGE IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

Please Mrs. so and so, take heed of what I say and move to protect yourself and the children. I pray God will bring healing to your marriage, but He may need you to get
out of harm's way first. Before the abuse started, this is what your husband would want you to do now.

Peace and Courage, God Bless.

Jumping in here. She did not say her husband was abusive and IMHO we should never advise anyone to seperate or get a divorce. That should be reserved for her spiritual director, priest, especially on a forum like this, you don't know who you are talking to and who will just take your advice and go and that may not be the best thing but then divorce never is.

mattkubes · #**125** Apr 26, '12, 5:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana Catherine

Jumping in here. She did not say her husband was abusive and IMHO we should never advise anyone to seperate or get a divorce. That should be reserved for her spiritual director, priest, especially on a forum like this, you don't know who you are talking to and who will just take your advice and go and that may not be the best thing but then divorce never is.

I agree. And that post also gave the impression that a declaration of nullity is akin to a Catholic version of divorce. It may be used that way far to commonly, but it's hardly part of the normal workup for ending a marriage (as if there was a "normal" workup for such a situation). Not that that advice should be coming over the internet anyway.

fpt · #**126** Apr 27, '12, 10:36 am

"My kids pull my veil off and I always look like a mess".

I would like only to react at this sentence. Because, behind, there is very probably some indirect meanings.

The rigorism, the moralism, the sexism, the marital masculinism from lay person of SSPX is existing, the differences are only on the degree. I know very well this movement, in function of lands and chaptels of SSPX, the points of view are opposite.

For instance, in France between Paris and countryside , or between France and Australia.

The culture of clanism can be, perhaps, very strong. It is sad.

adopted heir · #**127** Apr 27, '12, 8:35 pm

Hm. Okay, I don't wear a veil because my husband is sexist or the Church is or even the Society. The kids don't try to pull my veil off because they're trying to liberate me from a horrible sexist cult. They pull it off because they see this floppy thing on my head that they really, really need to wave around and slobber on. Why not, instead of saying kind of slanderous things, try to find out why women wear veils to Mass? FYI it was never abrogated, never officially discontinued. And once you understand the reasons for wearing it, it really is a beautiful devotion.

The severity or tenderness of priests is not a sectarian or denominational trait, it's a personality trait. My second confession (loooong before I found tradition) was with an elderly priest in San Diego who ripped me to pieces. Bad experience. Hysterics for half an hour or so. Bad way to start the wedding rehearsal. Scared me off trying to go to confession again for maybe four, five months afterward. I took a lot of convincing from my boyfriend (now husband) and his family that that's not how it's supposed to be and that hopefully that priest just had a bug up his butt and will get over it. My most recent confession (with a Society priest) was thoughtful, kind, but perceptive and not sugary. Priests are different. I hope you can find a priest you're comfortable with, or at least be able to avoid the ones who may need a refresher course in the mercy of God.

Also, no, the Mass is not a spectator sport. I frankly don't understand this notion of participation--what is meant by that? We're required to be there for our benefit, not because it can't happen without us. It's not like doing the wave, where if you don't jump out of your seat and throw your arms up at just the right moment, it won't work and everyone gets bummed. The priest who has been consecrated to do this work and to present the sacrifice is the active factor. The altar boys or deacons participate by offering the responses on behalf of the faithful. The faithful observe, pray, offer their lives on the altar with the priest, and prepare their hearts to receive the Lord's body. Nobody *has* to be there except the priest. 'Participation' strikes me as inappropriate--I'm not a priest or deacon, I'm on the other side of the rail. I'm not consecrated or trained to participate. I think that separation is something important that has been lost or forgotten and is now misunderstood. The separation emphasizes that something special and holy is happening, not that the priest needs a hundred other people to act as jumper cables to start the transubstantiation.

NFP1Kate · #**128** Apr 27, '12, 10:37 pm

Thank you for all the replies. I am having trouble keeping up with so many responses...life of a mother, I guess.

I reread my OP and I see how it could be understood as victimized, but that wasn't my intention. My husband is a good man and good father. We have a wonderful marriage, and I promise he isn't abusive. He is a type A personality and very opinionated, which has made our spiritual life difficult.

Over the 4 years of a marriage, I have tried to have a change in heart and view the world through his eyes. It has taken a long time, but I feel like we are connecting on a spiritual level that we have not been able to before. We attended the sspx Mass last week, and I feel that we are coming to a point where we are both content in our spiritual lives together.

It's been a long time coming, thank you for the outpouring of support this last couple weeks. I have needed it.