Romney: Welfare Moms Need 'Dignity of Work' - Page 5

ComputerGeek25 · #61 Apr 17, '12, 11:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Yet he felt he could judge the person handing out the aid?

There's a single word that accurately describes that......

As I previously stated, if I want to give out money, I am free to set conditions on how to do it.

My employer pays me if I come to work on time and finish my work.

The government is free to set the rules on who is poor and needs public assistance.

SamH · #62 Apr 17, '12, 11:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlg94086

Really? Do you have any figures to back that up?

My mother is incredible, but I don't think that other mothers are incapable, as liberals seem to think. Women have an amazing capacity.

Actually it is nowhere near "most". Of all the single mothers 23.5 percent of them received food stamps - the most common aid for single mothers..

http://assistanceforsinglemothers.com/food-assistance/

Lujack · #63 Apr 17, '12, 11:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Agreed, so don't pretend you know me.

"You and people like you" are people who don't care that the way means testing was absolutely humiliating.

Quote:

Perhaps he should have held a grudge against those that made means testing necessary. But I see you didn’t think that far – you claim means testing was done simply to humiliate the people . I guess it never occurred to you that it was done to ensure those that actually needed the aid got it instead of frittering it away on those that looked at it as an extra source of income while the truly needy did without.

http://news.yahoo.com/michigan-lotte...173600408.html

Yes, because a story about a Michigan lottery winner charged with welfare fraud has anything at all to do with a family on relief in the New York metropolitan area during the Great Depression.

Perhaps the means test could have been conducted in a way that didn't try to further humiliate the poor.

SamH · #64 Apr 17, '12, 11:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lujack

"You and people like you" are people who don't care that the way means testing was absolutely humiliating.

Maybe because more important things need addressed.

Lujack · #65 Apr 17, '12, 11:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Yet he felt he could judge the person handing out the aid?

There's a single word that accurately describes that......

Do you realize how frustrating a person you are to discuss things with? You take an entire post that lays out an entire story and talks about several different things at once and then snip it down to one sentence in order to call my grandfather a hypocrite. You ignored the fact that the Catholic Church's aid was not given in the same way, and provokes different feelings.

Of course, there is the essential difference that my grandfather's feelings were expressed to our family; he was never in a position of power over the means-test people. When he was in a position of power over people, he did not use that position of power to try and humiliate them. My grandfather's feelings did nothing to anyone; the means-testers' actions directly contributed to adding unpleasantness to the life of a poor, hard-working woman. That's a crucial difference.

Lujack · #66 Apr 17, '12, 11:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Maybe because more important things need addressed.

Human dignity ranks pretty high on my list of important things.

SamH · #67 Apr 17, '12, 11:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lujack

Yes, because a story about a Michigan lottery winner charged with welfare fraud has anything at all to do with a family on relief in the New York metropolitan area during the Great Depression.

It shows just how far people will go to abuse a system designed to help the truly needy. I'm sorry for not providing an article from the 1930s - this internet thingy was around then.

ComputerGeek25 · #68 Apr 17, '12, 11:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lujack

"You and people like you" are people who don't care that the way means testing was absolutely humiliating.

No one here wants to humiliate the poor, whatever that means

Lujack · #69 Apr 17, '12, 11:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComputerGeek25

As I previously stated, if I want to give out money, I am free to set conditions on how to do it.

My employer pays me if I come to work on time and finish my work.

The government is free to set the rules on who is poor and needs public assistance.

What benefit was there to setting up the means-test in a way that humiliated its recipients? The government (and any other aid organization) is legally free to do things the way the want. However, that does not exempt them from doing things the way they morally ought to do them; aiding the poor is a Christian duty, and it isn't meant to be done grudgingly or insultingly.

**rlg94086** · #70 Apr 17, '12, 11:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Actually it is nowhere near "most". Of all the single mothers 23.5 percent of them received food stamps - the most common aid for single mothers..

http://assistanceforsinglemothers.com/food-assistance/

Thanks Sam.

I would guess that some of those 23.5% are also working. On a personal note...

My sister-in-law is a working, single mom with 5 kids. She recently divorced her abusive husband. She is struggling tremendously and has decided to uproot from her current state and move in with her mom and find a job there. We've also offerred for all of them to move in with us - me, my wife, two adult children and 3 pre-pubescent kids. Prayers for all involved please...especially aging grandma who may be overwhelmed and my sister-in-law who recently returned to the Church and is trying to hold it together.

SamH · #71 Apr 17, '12, 11:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lujack

Human dignity ranks pretty high on my list of important things.

Where does starving rank?

Lujack · #72 Apr 17, '12, 11:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComputerGeek25

No one here wants to humiliate the poor, whatever that means

I had several posts saying what it means in this thread.

Anyway, there is at least one poster who is of the opinion that it isn't very important to avoid humiliating the poor.

Lujack · #73 Apr 17, '12, 11:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

Where does starving rank?

What does that mean? Aid doesn't have to be handed out in a way that is contrary to human dignity, which is something I've said a couple of times.

**rlg94086** · #74 Apr 17, '12, 11:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamH

It shows just how far people will go to abuse a system designed to help the truly needy. I'm sorry for not providing an article from the 1930s - this internet thingy wasn't around then.

Sure. Al Gore wasn't even born yet!

SamH · #75 Apr 17, '12, 11:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lujack

I had several posts saying what it means in this thread.

Anyway, there is at least one poster who is of the opinion that it isn't very important to avoid humiliating the poor.

Humility is a lesson I learned very young - it sad some wait so long in life to learn it.