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  #61  
Old Apr 20, '12, 5:39 am
OriginalJS OriginalJS is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

This title is misleading. Hitler used the church to achieve his own ends. Abortion was outlawed by the Nazi's who wanted soldiers. The church in America is resisting Obama, not supporting him the way many German bishops did Hitler.
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  #62  
Old Apr 20, '12, 5:54 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
What does Obama have to do to the Church before Jenky can be allowed to speak?
That is a great question.
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  #63  
Old Apr 20, '12, 5:55 am
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is online now
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

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Originally Posted by OriginalJS View Post
This title is misleading. Hitler used the church to achieve his own ends. Abortion was outlawed by the Nazi's who wanted soldiers. The church in America is resisting Obama, not supporting him the way many German bishops did Hitler.
Portions of the church in America are supporting Obama; the dissident portion. Obama practically has his own "Reichskirche", complete with his own "Vatican" composed of people like Sebelius, and his own "bishops" like Keehan. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say the faithful portion of the Church is resisting Obama.
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  #64  
Old Apr 20, '12, 6:03 am
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is online now
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

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Originally Posted by BigBlueCane View Post

First of all this is the first I am hearing at all about sterilizations and abortions. Since I do not know much about it I'll refrain from commenting since I don't know whether its true or not. Sorry I won't take your word for it.
Oh, not a problem! Please do not take my word for it. Even the most superficial research will tell you the Obama mandate includes abortifacients like "Ella" and the "morning after" pill, as well as sterilizations. I realize Obama supporters always just talk about "contraception", so people won't realize it's more than that.

But regardless, even forcing Catholic institutions to provide "contraceptives" to its employees is forcing them to be complicit in something the Church says is immoral. That, after all, is really the point.
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  #65  
Old Apr 20, '12, 6:10 am
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is online now
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

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Originally Posted by BigBlueCane View Post

Secondly, the issue at hand is the President giving access to health related opportunities to peole in a way where Church INSTITUTIONS are not required to pay for them but must be available to employees who can then voluntarily participate if they so choose.
"health related opportunities". Part of the doublespeak of the abortion administration. Killing one's child is a "womens' health" issue. We've heard that plenty enough from them.

Does anybody really think that "making the insurer pay for it" is anything but bogus? Of course those "services" will be included in the premiums. Regardless, some Catholic institutions are self-insured, so they are the "insurer" which will pay for contraceptives, sterilizations and abortions. But, oh, Obama said, for them, we'll make the TPA pay for those things. Lots of self-insureds have TPAs. But who pays the TPAs? The insurer, of course.

Obama did, it must be admitted, invite Catholic institutions to participate in "The Big Lie", but at least some of the bishops did not rise to the bait.
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  #66  
Old Apr 20, '12, 6:38 am
pilots13 pilots13 is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

Lots of good discussion going on here. Loving this thread.

My one point is that no one is forcing people to USE these medications and procedures. Maybe if people spent more time convincing individuals that abortion and contraceptives are wrong and less time trying to get the secular government to enforce their religious beliefs upon all citizens, we might actually start doing away with some of these things.
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  #67  
Old Apr 20, '12, 6:50 am
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Marauder Marauder is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

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Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
The issue here is very simple. God is not too concerned with the analogy that the Bishop made. He is very concerned with the fact that the President is the most pro-abortion president in this country's history.

Excellent post Brother.
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  #68  
Old Apr 20, '12, 7:04 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilots13 View Post
Lots of good discussion going on here. Loving this thread.

My one point is that no one is forcing people to USE these medications and procedures. Maybe if people spent more time convincing individuals that abortion and contraceptives are wrong and less time trying to get the secular government to enforce their religious beliefs upon all citizens, we might actually start doing away with some of these things.
How is the Church asking the government to impose beliefs on others?
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  #69  
Old Apr 20, '12, 7:06 am
jwinch2 jwinch2 is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

Meanwhile, the expected legal complaint has surfaced: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7310177.story
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  #70  
Old Apr 20, '12, 7:12 am
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LemonAndLime LemonAndLime is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

I find this extremely inflammatory.

Who'd have known Godwin's law could apply to a homily.
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  #71  
Old Apr 20, '12, 8:01 am
catechizeme catechizeme is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

I love my Bishop! Please keep him in your prayers. One poster said our good Bishop has the shoulders to withstand the assault he is and is going to receive on his comments and I believe he does, but he still needs our prayers and written support . Please also keep the priests in our diocese in your prayers that they have the courage to follow the example of this good man. I know several who are by their homilies, facebook and twitter posts. And, to top it off, we have tremendous Seminarians in our Diocese. They are amazing men. God is truly renewing His Church through these young men.

We've been praying the prayer of St. Michael in every parish after every weekend Mass for months for the "religious freedom of the Catholic Church in America" - a practice I'd love to see every Bishop in the country institute.
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  #72  
Old Apr 20, '12, 8:10 am
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

As I've been reading this thread, I've noticed that a lot of the talk has been about contraception and abortifacients. Now say hypothetically that Obama wasn't trying to force Catholic institutions to provide abortifacients, Obama is STILL trying to force Catholic institutions to provide contraception, which when used is a mortal sin. The administration is trying to force Catholics to go against their conscience either way. So whether you like the Bishop's parallel to Hitler and Stalin or not, stop trying to defend Obama.
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  #73  
Old Apr 20, '12, 8:28 am
pilots13 pilots13 is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

Quote:
Originally Posted by fix View Post
How is the Church asking the government to impose beliefs on others?
The push to ban contraceptives for one. These are legal drugs per our secular government. But there is a push that because they are against the belief of the Catholic Church they should be made illegal, or at least people's access to these drugs be hindered in the US, even though most people don't agree with this stance. Heck, a good number of Catholics don't believe it either.
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  #74  
Old Apr 20, '12, 8:30 am
Cristiano Cristiano is offline
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

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Originally Posted by LemonAndLime View Post
I find this extremely inflammatory.

Who'd have known Godwin's law could apply to a homily.
Quoting the Godwin's law, without understanding it, to shut down an argument is a nonsensical approach to ignoring facts. The homily was not based on a reductio ad absurdum.
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  #75  
Old Apr 20, '12, 9:07 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: Obama taking ‘similar path’ as Hitler and Stalin: Illinois bishop

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilots13 View Post
The push to ban contraceptives for one.
Where has She pushed for a ban? That would be great, but that is not what the Church is asking.


Quote:
These are legal drugs per our secular government. But there is a push that because they are against the belief of the Catholic Church they should be made illegal, or at least people's access to these drugs be hindered in the US, even though most people don't agree with this stance. Heck, a good number of Catholics don't believe it either.
But, that is not what is going on here. The Church does not want to be forced to pay for them.
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