Worth it to bring this up?

SurlyMermaid · #1 Apr 20, '12, 8:38 am

In a nutshell, my teen still attends the liberal Anglican church we used to go to. My sister and I have talked about it and, for various reasons, I'm not in a hurry to drag her away from it. She's leaning toward attending the Catholic parish with me. Things are falling into place that way.

So... last weekend she attended a lock-in at the Anglican church. She was dismayed and embarrassed (as were the visiting Lutheran teens who attended). Some members of the congregation, who had signed up in shifts to help chaperone through the night, took it upon themselves to talk to the kids about sex. The talk was the standard pro-Planned Parenthood, pro-artificial birth control talk.

Now, we're going to all be leaving this church anyway. My teen and hubby are the hold-outs. We know it's a liberal church, yes. So, my question is, should I bother saying something to the clergy, with both of whom I have a good relationship? I know I can't hold this group to Roman Catholic standards. I feel an obligation to simply say, "I don't expect you all to change, I feel this was inappropriate." I know that these congregants certainly had the best intentions and, frankly, I'm pleased they cared enough to take the time to try and help these teens to the best of their ideas.

However, I completely disagree with what was said and it had nothing to do with the point of the lock-in, but teachable moments come at the least expected times. My daughter was annoyed at the "lecture." She is on board with ABC having side effects and believes, as I, that we may never know the full effects on a woman's body, especially if on it for years. My sister believes that's why many ladies our age struggle with infertility. My daughter is also fond of saying that putting a teen on birth control is like giving your pyromaniac matching because "they're just going to set the woods on fire anyway."

Is this worth my time? I am grateful it's another reason my daughter is willing to try Catholicism. And at dinner Wednesday night she had yet another bad experience with that church's adult clique.

There's a tight group of 3 couples that treat the place like high school.

Thoughts?

PatriceA · #2 Apr 20, '12, 8:54 am

My thoughts, if the talk was not something that the parents knew was going to take place at the lock-in before hand, then I would be a little concerned myself as a parent, regardless if it was a Catholic retreat or an Anglican retreat. I certainly would speak to whom was ever in charge to at least voice my concerns. Espcially if it was a talk that was initiated by the adults and if your daughter had no way of excusing herself from the "audience" when she became uncomfortable.

Luna Lovecraft · #3 Apr 20, '12, 10:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurlyMermaid

So... last weekend she attended a lock-in at the Anglican church. She was dismayed and embarrassed (as were the visiting Lutheran teens who attended). Some members of the congregation, who had signed up in shifts to help chaperone through the night, took it upon themselves to talk to the kids about sex. The talk was the standard pro-Planned Parenthood, pro-artificial birth control talk.

Yes, I would definitely bring this to the church's attention. Their facilities (for lack of a better term) were used by adults to disseminate information about medical and sexual matters to minors without parental notification or consent. In some locales this is illegal, and in all situations it's highly improper. The church needs to be aware of this so they can do whatever they need to do to ensure this doesn't happen again if for no other reason than they could be liable if an irate parent decided to go after them.

Luna

agnes therese · #4 Apr 20, '12, 11:12 am

Definitely you should talk to the church. These are (apparently) minors, and they had no business discussing this without the parents' permission.

pacr40303 · #5 Apr 20, '12, 11:28 am

I wholeheartedly agree with the other posters. If I were the parent with knowledge of this, I would personally bring it to their attention immediately! The resulting activity was NOT what the parents were informed in advance that it would be, and therefore I believe it is of serious importance to let the clergy be aware of it immediately. If this has happened once, what other "discussions" have happened or WILL happen without parental approval.

Maybe I'm showing my age and am old fashioned, but if it were my child, they would NOT return to that church under any circumstances.In my humble opinion, the trust you placed in them to care for your child in the way they implied they would, and not push their own social agenda to children who were basically held against their will at that point, was breached when they started their pro-abortion agenda and did not allow anyone to opt-out or contact their parents to come and get them. I was young myself once, and I can assure you I would have been MORTIFIED if a stranger had started talking about sex to me. Was this a woman-only group, or were men also "discussing". To have strange females do it was bad enough, but if men were involved discussing it with juvenille females without parental consult, I'd say some VERY serious lines were crossed.

I'd have a very serious chat with the clery (and possibly THEIR higher-ups also) and then not return. It's quite obvious that this church has NO respect for anyone else's opinion, or they would have told parents in advance that the tops would or might be raised with the adolescents.

JMHO

SummerSmiles · #6 Apr 20, '12, 11:46 am

Yes, I'd bring it up. I'd especially mention that it made your daughter uncomfortable. That sort of talk is something that parent should know about before sending their child along. Parents are much better able to judge whether or not their child would be able to handle that sort of discussion in a group of his/her peers. It's something that definitely deserves parental consent. To my knowledge, even public schools have to let the parents "opt out" of talks like this for their kids if they so choose...it shouldn't be different just because this is a church.

It sounds like this was totally unplanned; like a few volunteers just decided, "this would be a good thing to talk about" and then ran with it. If that's the case, then the pastor definitely needs to be made aware of it. This type of thing could end in a very ugly legal dispute if it ruffles the feathers of certain parents.

Mrs Sally · #7 Apr 20, '12, 12:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriceA

My thoughts, if the talk was not something that the parents knew was going to take place at the lock-in before hand, then I would be a little concerned myself as a parent, regardless if it was a Catholic retreat or an Anglican retreat. I certainly would speak to whom was ever in charge to at least voice my concerns. Espcially if it was a talk that was initiated by the adults and if your daughter had no way of excusing herself from the "audience" when she became uncomfortable.

This exactly. Sex-ed wasn't part of the advertised focus of the night, you hadn't signed any additional permission slips for this (usually required now for all denominations). If the Lutheran teens were also dismayed, than this is obviously not a Catholic thing.

I would not have expected this at any event that wasn't planned to be about that issue - not at church, scouts, school, anywhere. So yes, I would say something. Whatever the message (use condoms, save yourself for marriage), adults shouldn't be initiating these conversations with teens without permission.

**jmcrae** · #8 Apr 20, '12, 12:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurlyMermaid

In a nutshell, my teen still attends the liberal Anglican church we used to go to. My sister and I have talked about it and, for various reasons, I'm not in a hurry to drag her away from it. She's leaning toward attending the Catholic parish with me. Things are falling into place that way.

So... last weekend she attended a lock-in at the Anglican church. She was dismayed and embarrassed (as were the visiting Lutheran teens who attended). Some members of the congregation, who had signed up in shifts to help chaperone through the night, took it upon themselves to talk to the kids about sex. The talk was the standard pro-Planned Parenthood, pro-artificial birth control talk.

Yikes. Never mind the content of the talk - if it wasn't on the agenda, it shouldn't have happened at all. It is illegal to have such conversations with persons under the age of 18 without the written consent of their parents - regardless of what point of view you are promoting.

I would mention it to the staff member responsible for the lock-in, whoever was responsible for recruiting the volunteers, and the pastor in charge of the church. This should not have happened.

ellen42 · #9 Apr 21, '12, 8:43 am

I have to agree with some of the other posters -- if it was a surprise to those invited, I'd probably have a word with the higher-ups at the church. Nobody wants to be ambushed like that. What if you ambushed their kids and started teaching them about the differences between the Anglican and Catholic teaching, while enforcing that the Catholic teachings are more correct. I'd bet their parents would be screaming bloody murder at you -- but I'd suggest being polite about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurlyMermaid

My daughter is also fond of saying that putting a teen on birth control is like giving your pyromaniac matching because "they're just going to set the woods on fire anyway."

This is an interesting analogy. I've never heard that before. I'm not sure I think it's quite accurate though -- maybe giving the pyromaniac a fire extinguisher would be a better comparison? If he's going to start fires anyway, you're giving him something to help put them out -- despite the extinguisher not being able to fix the damage of what's been burned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcrae

Yikes. Never mind the content of the talk - if it wasn't on the agenda, it shouldn't have happened at all. It is illegal to have such conversations with persons under the age of 18 without the written consent of their parents - regardless of what point of view you are promoting.

Illegal? It's illegal to mention anything about sex to a minor without their parents written permission? That seems unlikely...

Luna Lovecraft · #10 Apr 21, '12, 9:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellen42

Illegal? It's illegal to mention anything about sex to a minor without their parents written permission? That seems unlikely...

Yes, illegal. When adults present information about sex, sexuality, and/or birth control to minors, they could be breaking the law if they did not obtain parental permission. This is especially true if it was done under the auspices of an organized activity that had nothing to do with sex ed.

Luna

ellen42 · #11 Apr 21, '12, 10:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna Lovecraft

Yes, illegal. When adults present information about sex, sexuality, and/or birth control to minors, they could be breaking the law if they did not obtain parental permission. This is especially true if it was done under the auspices of an organized activity that had nothing to do with sex ed.

Luna

Based on what law?

I'm trying to do a google search for any laws, anywhere, where it's illegal to talk to children about such topics and coming up completely empty.

PatriceA · #12 Apr 21, '12, 11:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellen42

Based on what law?

I'm trying to do a google search for any laws, anywhere, where it's illegal to talk to children about such topics and coming up completely empty.

This link might give you the information you are looking for:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/spib_SE.pdf

TheRealJuliane · #13 Apr 21, '12, 12:00 pm

Oh my gosh! I'd be up there in EVERYONE'S face, and I'd probably call the press in on it too. That is OUTRAGEOUS! They could have said ANYTHING and who would have known about it had the teens not said something to their parents! This is a HUGE violation of the parents' trust and should NEVER EVER have been done!

Sorry to shout, it just makes me so furious when adults do things like this!!!

It really doesn't matter if you are leaving or not, the pastor needs to know that things like this can cost him his church when someone SUES.

I might call the other parents and get their sense of it, and see if they are willing to see the pastor as a group. The more people in his office, the more seriously he is going to take this. But even if no one else wants to make a fuss, YOU go and start the process rolling.

ellen42 · #14 Apr 21, '12, 12:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriceA

This link might give you the information you are looking for:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/spib_SE.pdf

I had found something similar, however a few key points:

-- In only three US States is parental consent required. Therefore in 47 states, there is no requirement of parental consent, although the majority of them do require parental notification. This is a far cry from being able to make a blanket statement that "parental consent is required" then acknowledging that there may be a few exceptions.

-- These laws concern sex education within the context of a school. What had been stated before was:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcrae

It is illegal to have such conversations with persons under the age of 18 without the written consent of their parents - regardless of what point of view you are promoting.

And then this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna Lovecraft

When adults present information about sex, sexuality, and/or birth control to minors, they could be breaking the law if they did not obtain parental permission. This is especially true if it was done under the auspices of an organized activity that had nothing to do with sex ed.

Which are both MUCH more broadly defined than only sex ed in school. I also tried to specifically highlight this point earlier. It is not illegal for *any adult* to have a discussion about sexual health with a minor without written parental consent. Since the OP's situation did not happen within the confines of a school environment, these parental notification/consent laws should not apply.

TheRealJuliane · #15 Apr 21, '12, 12:40 pm

Whether or not it was strictly illegals, wouldn't you agree that it was WRONG of those adults to go behind the parents' backs and present such information to teenagers?

They violated the trust of the parents and the boundaries of the teens. It was wrong of them to do that, and they should not be allowed to present to teens again. They knew the kids could not leave and so they took advantage.