Your side on masturbation - Page 2

Corki · #16 Apr 21, '12, 1:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

I understand that masturbation can be for pleasure. It stated that it is not used for love between two. Can't married couples have sex just for the pleasure also?

Yes, married couples can have sex just for the pleasure of it. But they can't do so in a way that is not ordered to procreation as well.

TheRealJuliane · #17 Apr 21, '12, 1:40 pm

As for stress, there are many other options to deal with it. Physical activity, and lots of it, helps young men a lot. I would recommend that you get lots of exercise and do physical work, outdoors, if possible. Keep your thoughts away from lust. Pray the rosary. Keep an image of Mary up as your background on your computer. I hope you are not looking for an excuse to look at images...

Of course you want to believe that masturbation isn't a sin! It feels good! But making yourself feel good in that way IS sinful, because those pleasurable feelings aren't given by God so we can turn them inward on ourselves, but outward toward our spouse. You are supposed to bond with your spouse through the pleasure of sexual orgasm. But we have free will, and we look for ways to sin.

Whether or not you want to believe it is a sin, according to our Church, it certainly IS a sin. Venial or mortal, it depends on your individual case, but a sin it remains. Surprised you haven't gotten any training on this subject. Are your parents engaged in your education at all?

xSteven · #18 Apr 21, '12, 1:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

As for stress, there are many other options to deal with it. Physical activity, and lots of it, helps young men a lot. I would recommend that you get lots of exercise and do physical work, outdoors, if possible. Keep your thoughts away from lust. Pray the rosary. Keep an image of Mary up as your background on your computer. I hope you are not looking for an excuse to look at images...

Of course you want to believe that masturbation isn't a sin! It feels good! But making yourself feel good in that way IS sinful, because those pleasurable feelings aren't given by God so we can turn them inward on ourselves, but outward toward our spouse. You are supposed to bond with your spouse through the pleasure of sexual orgasm. But we have free will, and we look for ways to sin.

Whether or not you want to believe it is a sin, according to our Church, it certainly IS a sin. Venial or mortal, it depends on your individual case, but a sin it remains. Surprised you haven't gotten any training on this subject. Are your parents engaged in your education at all?

My parents have taught me not to do sex, or drugs anything like that. Never have they mentioned masturbating. My church has never mentioned it either. I had to do my own research when I saw "Impure acts" That's when I changed and stopped masturbating.

But I had a lot of questions and I found this forum to ask my questions. I was going to ask my priest but it's just a little awkward.

I remember reading that it's terrible to change the word of God to something else. If masturbation ISN'T in the Bible, why do we believe it's a sin. Isn't it changing/making a new word of God?

TheRealJuliane · #19 Apr 21, '12, 2:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

My parents have taught me not to do sex, or drugs anything like that. Never have they mentioned masturbating. My church has never mentioned it either. I had to do my own research when I saw "Impure acts" That's when I changed and stopped masturbating.

But I had a lot of questions and I found this forum to ask my questions. I was going to ask my priest but it's just a little awkward.

I remember reading that it's terrible to change the word of God to something else. If masturbation ISN'T in the Bible, why do we believe it's a sin. Isn't it changing/making a new word of God?

No, Steven, we're not fundamentalists, we're not based solely on the Bible. We have 2,000 years of Church history and Papal authority. You're not going to find "Don't masturbate" in the Bible so don't look for it there. It's a "touchy" subject (

) so adults have a problem talking about it. But here you are, and we're telling you it's a sin. Will you believe us?

edward_george · #20 Apr 21, '12, 2:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

My parents have taught me not to do sex, or drugs anything like that. Never have they mentioned masturbating. My church has never mentioned it either. I had to do my own research when I saw "Impure acts" That's when I changed and stopped masturbating.

But I had a lot of questions and I found this forum to ask my questions. I was going to ask my priest but it's just a little awkward.

I remember reading that it's terrible to change the word of God to something else. If masturbation ISN'T in the Bible, why do we believe it's a sin. Isn't it changing/making a new word of God?

The Bible isn't the sole basis of the truth. Christ revealed His teachings to the Apostles and gave them the authority to pass it on through their successors. One of the ways that teaching comes down to us is through Sacred Scripture, but it is by no means the only way. Remember that he told the Apostles "whoever hears you, hears me," and since the Church is the Body of Christ, we continue to hear his voice through it. The Church's teaching on human sexuality is not a "new word of God," but it is a deepening of the understanding of human dignity and morality that came down to us from the very first. We know that God created us in his image and likeness, we know that we were created male and female. We know that we have a particular dignity above all other creatures as rational beings who are capable of knowing, choosing, and loving. From all of this which has been revealed explicitly through Sacred Tradition, the Church has continued to deepen its understanding. Understanding something better does not mean making something up. So the Church's teaching on masturbation is an extension of the teaching on what human sexuality is, which is rooted in the fact that we are created in the image and likeness of God and must live according to his plan in order to be happy forever with him in heaven.

-ACEGC

itullian · #21 Apr 21, '12, 5:16 pm

SeekNFind · #22 Apr 21, '12, 5:37 pm

I think deep down, you already know the answer to your own question: YES it is a sin. I suspect you're hoping someone will say it's okay and free you from your conscience but if you didn't think it was wrong, you wouldn't even be asking the question. Check out what RealCatholicTV has to say on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGaglQfjxBI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyx_vvWLfKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s1HJRcGyjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck5bVxyFXJY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cAH5X1cXNY

We are called to live a holy and chaste life. You can't do that if you're using porn or thinking graphic thoughts to masturbate. I know this isn't an easy thing to overcome but I hope you will listen to that voice that is leading you in the right direction. Peace!

Quarles47 · #23 Apr 21, '12, 6:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

What's your side on it? I personally believe it is not a sin for many reasons.

Just say "NO".

Pfaffenhoffen · #24 Apr 22, '12, 3:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

I am asking, would masturbation be a sin if I'm only doing it to get stress off, and or to get all my sexual feelings out. I am young and going through puberty and I always have these days were I have my hormones going crazy and I have nothing to do about it. I go to sleep just to get it off my mind and I always pray before I go to sleep and these lustful thoughts go in my mind and it annoys me! I get so stressed, and just tense from all this. I have nothing to get rid of it and before I knew masturbation was a sin I used to masturbate to get rid of stress and these feelings.

Of course I don't masturbate now, because I'm unsure if it's a sin or not for the reasons why I do it. I've read Catholic Forums some saying that It's not a sin for certain reasons, and some saying it is!

I'm so unsure, and some of these things you guys are saying aren't making sense to me. Make your replies kid friendly please, so I can understand.

Thank you all, and bless you all!

Now I understand you.
Look, your thoughts are not bad !!! The thoughts are a way of the body telling you that it is time to reproduce, to look for a girl and to be a father. Do you realize that without reproduction, all the living things would disappear on Earth. So, nature puts into you body the urge to have sex with a woman so that you may bear kids and life would continue on Earth.
Now, listen, I do not know how old are you but in the old primitive times, people would marry (many times, not always) when they were 16 and women were 14, at the height of their sexuality. So, they would not have these problems (but they would have others).
So, let us resume: the thoughts, you cannot do anything about them. The thoughts tell you that you are a man now and suffer what all men suffer: a urge to reproduce to have sex with women so that life may continue.

As you said and very well, when your seminal vesicules are full of semen, you feel more urge and more sexual thoughts. If my post is useless, at least I would like you to understand that that is perfectly normal and there is no sin attached to it. It is normal. You realize that nature made the body have more thoughts and urges when there is more semen so that reproduction be better. OK?

Do you know that women have more urges (women suffer the same as men!) when they ovulate? It is nature's way of saying that you are ready to be a mother.

Now, second thought: Nature's urges and thoughts are violent. It is not easy. Some people do not want to have kids but many times Nature wins over them and they have kids. Sexual Energy is stronger than us. God wants life. God wants reproduction. So, no matter what, God wants life to go on on earth no matter what man thinks.

So, sex is a violent inclination we have. All animals. My favorite is the salmon who fights to reproduce in the river where he was born and dies. It is an epic saga. I do not know whether you saw "The March of the Penguins" which is a tremendous saga about life and death, about fight for reprodution, about love for the kids.

Now and then you masturbate. Why? Because the urge is such that you want to get rid of it. I am not talking about sins. What is best? To have the sexual thoughts and wet dreams or masturbation?

I would think that the sexual thoughts and wet dreams are better.
Now, what will you do with the sexual thoughts? I would say: nothing. First of all, you cannot win over them. Second, maybe, I repeat, maybe the repression of those thoughts is what provokes the masturbation. Third, think is not sin. A thought is a thought, nothing else. Thoughts provoke urges. OK. That is natural. As when you are hungry, you dream with food which makes you wish to steal an apple from the grocery store. That does not mean you are going to steal the apple. A thought is a thought an urge is an urge.

Besides, you and I have another problem. We are human beings not pure animals and we are Catholic. Some dogs, when they feel the urge, they do it anywhere, one of them tried it in my trousers and the nice lady who was with the dog did nothing. I was mad for I could not kick the dog out. We are humans and do things in a human way.

And we are Catholics, at the image of Jesus Christ, who did not get married. More difficult so. But look at Mother Theresa of Calcutta: she did not marry, she had no children, but what a life.

So, Jesus Christ is appealing to us to do things in a Christian Way. What brings problems but also rewards.

Sex life is just a part of our life not all.

Grow up in Jesus Christ's arms, pray to Him and to Our Lady, everyday ask for God's forgiveness for ALL your sins and do not make sexual one something special, before you go to bed. On getting up, pray to the Lord and to the Virgin May that you may lead a HolY Life (and that is on everything, do not put a special place for sex), enjoy your youth with all the joys, troubles, frustrations, dreams, your passion for girls, for the world, for science, for Humanhood, for Our Lady and for our Leader, Jesus Christ.

Uzziah1 · #25 Apr 22, '12, 4:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

What's your side on it? I personally believe it is not a sin for many reasons.

1) When we don't masturbate, we get more lustful thoughts in our heads making us sin more, and think/do/say bad things.

2) we have wet dreams so we are still spilling the "seed" and wet dreams is still masturbating in our sleep

3) Some people don't masturbate for pleasure all the time. It can be used to get rid of stress, and our lustful thoughts. I remember I just coulden't focus on anything, all i could think of was lusful thoughts and I would tell myself "STOP! This is not what God wants!" I just couldent focus to pray to him, or get these thoughts out of my head. How else would I get them out?

4) If you shoot someone, the gun isn't the sinful part. So masturbation is the gun, and lust, addiction are the killing things. I just believe in that.

P.S. I am a Roman Catholic and I am sitll confused on wether masturbation is a sin or not. I do go to church every sunday and pray daily.

Thanks!

Bless you all!

I think that you need to experiment with your own personality a little bit.

Consider the possibility, when you masturbate to "get rid of stress and lustful thoughts," that this ideation is really self-deception which is part of a "mental masturbation machine."

I'm not saying that there isn't stress and that there aren't lustful thoughts to be gotten rid of. I'm suggesting that they are indeed THERE, in your head, BECAUSE you MAKE them occur to GET AT the pleasure of masturbation -- like climbing a small hill so that you can hang glide.

I can prove this to you: If you see a thug with a gun stick the gun in a friend's mouth in the course of an amewd robbery in a store and then blow out his brains, and THEN he sticks the gun in YOUR mouth, are you goinbg to be preoccupied with lustful thoughts?

No. You're going to be preoccupied with living.

Well, the reason why that isn't happening now, WITHOUT a robber's gun in your mouth, is because you don't have preoccupying higher values.

Look at yourself -- you are a guy going through an undignified life, from one masturbation pleasure experience to the next, in the guise of doing what you have to because, darn, God gave you that sexual-stress-filled body!

"It's all God's fault!" Is that your highest value?

Tell that to The Boss on Judgment Day, when he asks, "Steven, what did you do with the life I gave you?"

What are you going to say? "I moved from one masturbation experience to the next. It's all your fault"?

Yuch!

Suggestion: Pray for the power to do the hardest thing you will ever do: Develop a sense of humor. Do not give up until you have the people around you laughing. Work, work, work, work, work, and give, give, give, give, give. Don't give up. Don't waste any more time on this absurd pleasure-driven feedback loop you are enjoying. The Boss really is coming, and He really will say, "Steven, what did you do with the life I gave you?"

TheRealJuliane · #26 Apr 22, '12, 6:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brofessor

I've never liked that. Wasn't it the Holy Father himself who said that the conscience is the final arbiter of morality? Certainly, we should take Church teachings into account, but there's also the possibility of misinterpreting teachings, or a person in a position of power (bishop or pope) saying something irresponsible.

I think he meant a well-formed conscience. And, there are people who have been trained to ignore their God-given conscience, and also people who have no conscience (sociopaths/psychopaths). We cannot rely entirely upon our consciences, especially when we are very young and our conscience is not properly formed yet. I think of examples like putting a 6 year old child in front of a graduate level seminar on nuclear physics...

Jacob18 · #27 Apr 22, '12, 11:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

What's your side on it? I personally believe it is not a sin for many reasons.

1) When we don't masturbate, we get more lustful thoughts in our heads making us sin more, and think/do/say bad things.

If you try to avoid lustful thoughts, you will think them much less. The Church also says willfully thinking lustful thoughts is also sin.

Quote:

2) we have wet dreams so we are still spilling the "seed" and wet dreams is still masturbating in our sleep

If you do not try to think lustful thoughts, or look at women sexually, you are far less likely to so such.

Quote:

3) Some people don't masturbate for pleasure all the time. It can be used to get rid of stress, and our lustful thoughts.

Doubtful and sounds like you are just trying to justify sin.

Quote:

4) If you shoot someone, the gun isn't the sinful part. So masturbation is the gun, and lust, addiction are the killing things. I just believe in that.

I'd like to post a longer reply to this, but I am stressed for time. I will let others reply to this.

Quote:

P.S. I am a Roman Catholic and I am sitll confused on wether masturbation is a sin or not. I do go to church every sunday and pray daily.

Thanks!

Bless you all!

The Church, the church you say you are a part of says it IS a sin, are you more knowledgable than two thousand years of saints and theologians?

Please do not try to justify your sins, sir.

Pyrocat · #28 Apr 23, '12, 4:30 pm

Hiya xSteven,

well going through puberty is tough and is one of the things that lessens the severity of masturbation as a mortal sin, or so I have read.

My take on it is this, as you quoted from that excellent looking book, the devil can easily twist good to bad, he's had more than a few millenia practice after all. Masturbation is surely the corruption of the proper sexual activity between man and woman bound in holy matrimony (that last bit's very important

), therefore the point about masturbation is not spilling your seed, but taking it out of its proper place. Your point about wet-dreams is a misconception, you're spilling your seed without consent, that makes all the difference in cases of sin. As for lustful thoughts, I find knowing God is with me helps, but you can pray to him as well for strength.

I think catechism also views masturbation as a mortal sin, and since the bible doesn't deal with masturbation directly I'd go with that.

I think it's cracking your here exploring the demands of your faith, I wish I'd done it a few years back.

God Bless

sw85 · #29 Apr 23, '12, 6:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

What's your side on it? I personally believe it is not a sin for many reasons.

1) When we don't masturbate, we get more lustful thoughts in our heads making us sin more, and think/do/say bad things.

My side is the Church's side, and the Church says it's wrong. So, my belief is that it's wrong.

1) This is not true for the lots and lots of people who don't masturbate (or who quit masturbating when they became Catholics), myself included. You get into this cycle of masturbating because your body gets used to it and it gets upset when its fix isn't satisfied. It can get un-used to it, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

2) we have wet dreams so we are still spilling the "seed" and wet dreams is still masturbating in our sleep

That is very far from true. The problem with masturbation is not merely "spilling the seed" and wet dreams are not mere "masturbation in our sleep."

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

3) Some people don't masturbate for pleasure all the time. It can be used to get rid of stress, and our lustful thoughts. I remember I just coulden't focus on anything, all i could think of was lusful thoughts and I would tell myself "STOP! This is not what God wants!" I just couldent focus to pray to him, or get these thoughts out of my head. How else would I get them out?

This doesn't mean it's OK to masturbate. It means you have a masturbation problem. The solution is to find a way to fix your masturbation problem, not to find a way to make masturbation OK in your head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

4) If you shoot someone, the gun isn't the sinful part. So masturbation is the gun, and lust, addiction are the killing things. I just believe in that.

OK, so don't entertain lust, i.e., don't masturbate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

Thank you all for your replies but I still do not see how it is a sin. Here's a writer I saw when I was doing research on here and this is what he said. It's kind of lengthy, sorry.
P.S Here's the whole thing, I couldent fit it on here. http://growingupboys.info/Answers2008/20080622a.html

This Jeffrey Hamilton fellow is associated with some place called the "La Vista Church of Christ." He is a Protestant. You should not be taking theology lessons from Protestants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

I would also check out this.
http://carm.org/masturbation

Sorry for all the questions, and things to check out. I'm very confused about this topic.

This Matt Slick fellow is a self-confessed Calvinist. That means he's a Protestant. You should not be taking theology lessons from Protestants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSteven

I understand that masturbation can be for pleasure. It stated that it is not used for love between two. Can't married couples have sex just for the pleasure also?

Also how do we know this is a sin? Where does it say in the Bible?

Married couples can have sex for pleasure, yes, so long as the act is kept open to life, i.e., no contraception and no NFP without grave reason.

We know it is a sin because the Church has declared it as such doctrinally, and because the Church is protected from error by the Holy Spirit when issuing moral teachings. There is more to Catholicism than what is in the Bible. That is a Protestant error and, once again, you should not be taking theology lessons from Protestants.

There is a long history of theology and philosophy behind the Church's teachings with respect to human sexuality. It's called "natural law." A good resource to begin with is Edward Feser's The Last Superstition. I think the relevant material is in chapter 3 or 4. The bulk of the book is an attack against atheists but he includes an explanation and defense of natural law ethics in the book.

Irishgal49 · #30 Apr 23, '12, 6:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by giuseppeTO

Steve,

The church maintains that this act is mortal sin. There can be very exceptional mitigating circumstances that you can discuss with a priest. But as Roman Catholics, we don't need to necessarily understand why it is mortal sin. The church, whom Christ gave the power to determine what is lawful and what is not has spoken clearly on the subject.

So, the fact that it does not seem reasonable that this be considered a grave sin is inconsequential to the gravity. When one is addicted to any sin, like any addict, we will try and find any justification to that action.

All men, regardless of their state in life has suffered to some degree with this issue - you are not the first. Only through prayer and consecration of yourself to the Sacred Heart and Our Lady will you find the grace and strength to deal with this.

What is most important is that you cultivate the control of this sin at a young age because if you allow yourself to be ruled by this passion at a young age, it will not stop once you are married. If you haven't conquered it by then, then this sin will become doubly serious in the married state because it will still be a mortal sin against your personal purity and it will be a sin against your marriage.

You are only confused because you are seeking (and finding) sources that justify the sin but there is only one source for the truth on this, regardless of how you feel about it.

I do agree that we must try to improve our lives so that we are in obedience with the Church and I have this addiction myself.

I do want to say that I never ever did it while married and never had a problem while married at all. I had a problem between marriages (first husband died) and then once I married again, no problem. It just didn't enter my mind. So I am not sure what that means for me but I don't want him thinking that it will cause problems. Some people it does some it doesn't but we should try to obey the Church. I'm in Confession 3-5 times a week for this so I jokingly tell someone I need to hurry up and remarry before I kill the priest from exhaustion.

My prayers are with the OP.