Should Catholics have patriarches?

[JD27076]

Since Matthew 18:18 states that the rest of the apostles has "keys" to the kingdom of heaven.

They all have authority. But Peter hast he most authority because he ist he shepard.

But since the Orthodox have patriarches, how about Catholics? Shouldn't we have some since Jesus gave the apostles authority to bind and loose? Who are the succesors of these apostles?

[SonCatcher]

Originally Posted by JD27076

Since Matthew 18:18 states that the rest of the apostles has "keys" to the kingdom of heaven.

They all have authority. But Peter hast he most authority because he ist he shepard.

But since the Orthodox have patriarches, how about Catholics? Shouldn't we have some since Jesus gave the apostles authority to bind and loose? Who are the succesors of these apostles?

Bishops.

[pablope]

Originally Posted by JD27076

Since Matthew 18:18 states that the rest of the apostles has "keys" to the kingdom of heaven.

They all have authority. But Peter hast he most authority because he ist he shepard.

But since the Orthodox have patriarches, how about Catholics? Shouldn't we have some since Jesus gave the apostles authority to bind and loose? Who are the succesors of these apostles?

I think one of the titles of the Pope is Patriarch of the West...meaning the western church..or the Church at Rome.

[TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by JD27076

Since Matthew 18:18 states that the rest of the apostles has "keys" to the kingdom of heaven.

Welcome Home and congratulations on coming into the Church. I am not really sure if I understand your question so bear with me and let's take your statements one at a time. On the first one: No, it does not say anthing about "keys". It says;

Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The Apostles are given then power to forgive or retain sins, but the keys are only given to Peter.

Originally Posted by JD27076

They all have authority. But Peter hast he most authority because he ist he shepard.

No, they don't. They all have the power to forgive sins but only Peter has authority because only Peter was singled out by Jesus to be His Vicar and govern the Church in Jesus' name until he returns.

Originally Posted by JD27076

But since the Orthodox have patriarches, how about Catholics? Shouldn't we have some since Jesus gave the apostles authority to bind and loose? Who are the succesors of these apostles?

The successors of the original Apostles are the Bishops of the Church. We do have Catholic patriarches (if I recall correctly) in the Eastern Catholic Churches. What our Orthodox brothers and sisters have is of no concern as we are Catholic, not Orthodox.

Regardless of what title you use, the point is that it is only the Bishop of Rome that has the authority to run the Church in Jesus name.

[ByzCathCantor]

Indeed, welcome home!

As you may have learned in your RCIA formation, there are indeed Patriarchal Churches that are part of the Catholic Church. If you take a look at the Code of Canons of Eastern Churches, you will see an entire section covering this form of Church (among others).

Some of the Eastern Catholic Churches are indeed Patriarchal Churches. The Patriarchs of these sui juris (self governing) Churches in the Catholic Communion are selected by Synods of Bishops as opposed to being selected by His Holiness.

I would note in response to a previous post that the Papal title "Patriarch of the West" was recently supressed and is not currently in use.

[Tarpeian Rock]

Originally Posted by pablope

I think one of the titles of the Pope is Patriarch of the West...meaning the western church..or the Church at Rome.

I believe that following his election, Pope Benedict specifically did not take on that title. I would not think his action is binding on his successors, however.

[JD27076]

Originally Posted by SonCatcher

Bishops.

That sums it up very much. I was like.. . I was flaberghasted I didn't remember that.

[steve b]

Originally Posted by JD27076

Since Matthew 18:18 states that the rest of the apostles has "keys" to the kingdom of heaven.

1st of all congradulations on your confirmation.


The keys are only mentioned being given to 2 men in scripture by the king. Eliakim in the OT[Is 22:21-23], and to Peter in the NT [Mt 16:19..]. The key holder is the prime minister under the king. In Isaiah, one man received the keys. In Matthew, one man received the keys. That doesn't mean there are no other ministers under the prime minister or under the king who have authority. It's just that the key holder can bind what the others loose or loose what the others bind. iow, as scripture states, "what he opens no one can shut and what he shuts no one can open".

If everyone had the keys, that statement about ONE would be nonsense.

Originally Posted by JD

They all have authority. But Peter hast he most authority because he is the shepard.

Because he has the keys.

Originally Posted by JD

But since the Orthodox have patriarches, how about Catholics?Shouldn't we have some since Jesus gave the apostles authority to bind and loose?

2 issues concerning authority




Here's what then Joseph Card. Ratzinger wrote in 2000 Re: 2 issues

• 1st among equals, the EO attempt to equalize the pope's authority
• the patriarchal system another attempt by the EO to equalize the pope's authority.

"3. In Christian literature, the expression begins to be used in the East when, from the fifth century, the idea of the Pentarchy gained ground, according to which there are five Patriarchs at the head of the Church, with the Church of Rome having the first place among these patriarchal sister Churches. In this connection, however, it needs to be noted that no Roman Pontiff ever recognized this equalization of the sees or accepted that only a primacy of honour be accorded to the See of Rome.It should be noted too thatthis patriarchal structure typical of the East never developed in the West.


4. The expression appears again in two letters of the Metropolitan Nicetas of Nicodemia (in the year 1136) and the Patriarch John X Camaterus (in office from 1198 to 1206), in which they protested that Rome, by presenting herself as mother and teacher, would annul their authority.In their view, Rome is only the first among sisters of equal dignity."


http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000630_chiese-sorelle_en.html

Originally Posted by JD

Who are the succesors of these apostles?

bishops ordained in the line of the apostles. One caveot however. Popes ordain others during their pontificate. That doesn't mean all those ordinations of others to the priesthood or bishopric by a pope, are now popes, or successors to that office that pope held who ordained them.

One exception for one office took place. Peter's office. That was understood to be the bishop of Rome.

[James224]

Originally Posted by JD27076

Since Matthew 18:18 states that the rest of the apostles has "keys" to the kingdom of heaven.

They all have authority. But Peter hast he most authority because he ist he shepard.

But since the Orthodox have patriarches, how about Catholics? Shouldn't we have some since Jesus gave the apostles authority to bind and loose? Who are the succesors of these apostles?

Here's the full title of the Pope:

- His Holiness The Pope;
- Bishop Of Rome And Vicar Of Jesus Christ;
- Successor Of St. Peter, Prince Of The Apostles;
- Supreme Pontiff Of The Universal Church;
- Patriarch Of The West;
- Servant Of The Servants Of God;
- Primate Of Italy;
- Archbishop And Metropolitan Of The Roman Province;
- Sovereign Of Vatican City State.

[porthos11]

We do have patriarchs. There is a Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, the Patriarch of Venice, and till recently, the Patriarch of the West (dropped by Pope Benedict XVI). And the Pope is pretty much the Patriarch of Rome (Rome is a Patriarchal See).

[ziapueblo]

Originally Posted by JD27076

Since Matthew 18:18 states that the rest of the apostles has "keys" to the kingdom of heaven.

They all have authority. But Peter hast he most authority because he ist he shepard.

But since the Orthodox have patriarches, how about Catholics? Shouldn't we have some since Jesus gave the apostles authority to bind and loose? Who are the succesors of these apostles?

We do have Catholic Patriarchs:

* Patriarch Antonios Naguib (Coptic Catholic Church)
* Patriarch Mar Bechara Boutros al-Rahi (Maronite Catholic Church)
* Patriarch of Antioch and all the East of the Syrians Ignatius Joseph III Yonan (Syriac Catholic Church)
* Armenian Patriarch of Cilicia Nerses Bedros XIX Tarmouni (Armenian Catholic Church)
* Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans, Emmanuel III Delly (Chaldean Catholic Church)
* Patriarch of Antioch and all the East, of Alexandria, and of Jerusalem of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, Gregory III Laham (Melkite Greek Catholic Church)

Hope this helps!

Christ is risen!
ZP

[ByzCathCantor]

Originally Posted by porthos11

We do have patriarchs. There is a Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, the Patriarch of Venice, and till recently, the Patriarch of the West (dropped by Pope Benedict XVI). And the Pope is pretty much the Patriarch of Rome (Rome is a Patriarchal See).

The Patriarchal titles of the Latin Church (other than any ascribed to the Pontiff) are honorary. They are essentially metropolitan archbishops of historically significant jurisdictions.

That said, as noted earlier, there are indeed true Patriarchal Churches within the Catholic Communion. The following are current Patriarchs of their respective sui juris Catholic Churches, all in communion with Rome:

Cardinal Antonios Naguib
Partriarch of Alexandria
Coptic Catholic Church

Patriarch Gregory III Laham
Patriarch of Antioch
Melkite Greek-Catholic Church

Patriarch Ignatius Joseph III Younan
Patriarch of Antioch
Syrian Catholic Church

Patriarch Bechara Boutros al-Rahi
Patriarch of Antioch
Maronite Catholic Church

Patriarch Nerses Bedros XIX Tarmouni
Patriarch of Cilicia
Armenian Catholic Church

Cardinal Emmanuel III Delly
Patriarch of Babylon
Chaldean Catholic Church