How is the LDS a cult?

Kanuckistani · #1 Apr 24, '12, 1:53 pm

Why do so many people believe the LDS is a cult? I personally think otherwise. How could a church with nearly 15 million members, be a cult? And I know some Mormons and they told me the church doesn't dictate what they can and cannot do. Look at many Mormon politicians. They let their positions known and receive no criticism towards them from the LDS church. It's not like Mormons are held on a leash or anything.

Also, the church has no charismatic or authoritarian leader, and I recently talked to a Mormon who told me they don't worship any of their prophets (even Joseph Smith!). The current president seems like a genuinely nice, and democratic leader.

Here's what a cult is defined as:

1. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

If the LDS is a cult, then us Catholics and protestants are as well, since we devote our lives to Jesus Christ. Also, the LDS is by no means small, and it's practices are not too strange (besides wearing special undergarments and not being able to drink coffee or alcohol).

Also, I don't want to come off as pro-Mormon or anti-Catholic (I love my Catholic faith). So lets keep this civil.

Regards,
Kanuck

Marie5890 · #2 Apr 24, '12, 2:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanuckistani

and it's practices are not too strange (besides wearing special undergarments and not being able to drink coffee or alcohol).

Regards,
Kanuck

As a former Mormon, I'm not going to get in delineating as to whether or not Mormonism is a cult.

But I did want to point out, the temple ceremony is certainly cult-like in nature.
The temple ceremony is the summit of their worship.

CountrySteve · #3 Apr 24, '12, 2:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie5890

As a former Mormon, I'm not going to get in delineating as to whether or not Mormonism is a cult.

But I did want to point out, the temple ceremony is certainly cult-like in nature.
The temple ceremony is the summit of their worship.

^
reminds me of the anti-Catholic talk i hear, and that the Mass is "cult like" blah blah blah

stephe1987 · #4 Apr 24, '12, 2:49 pm

Well... relatively small could mean small compared to Catholicism or Islam, both with around 1 billion members each. And Mormons are around 14 million.
And some would say their practices are strange.

But I think they are called a cult because they are not in line with mainstream Christianity (i.e. view of the trinity)... so some research groups classify them as a non-Christian cult.

Marie5890 · #5 Apr 24, '12, 2:50 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountrySteve

^
reminds me of the anti-Catholic talk i hear, and that the Mass is "cult like" blah blah blah

I'm guessing that the anti-Catholics say that don't know much about Jewish services. Considering many of the early Christians were also Jewish, the echos can be seen quite clearly.

InspiritCarol · #6 Apr 24, '12, 3:03 pm

I found this amusing:
it's pro-mormon & "pro-cult"
http://mormoncult.org/mormon-cult-exposed.html
This site has, perhaps more along the lines of what you may be looking for:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html

These days it just seems like so much name-calling.

Yes, Mormons are mislead, sadly. Alas, so are the majority of the finger-pointers.

tarboy · #7 Apr 24, '12, 3:09 pm

By common definition,, every church is a cult

Quote:

1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult

When applied to a specific denomination, I think it's used to be exclusionary and twist the knife (as opposed to discuss theology)

Marie5890 · #8 Apr 24, '12, 3:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarboy

By common definition,, every church is a cult

When applied to a specific denomination, I think it's used to be exclusionary and twist the knife (as opposed to discuss theology)

Heck, one of the things that the Congregation for the Causes of Saints looks at for the various causes put before them is the "cult following" of the particular person in question

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...beatif_en.html

TexanKnight · #9 Apr 24, '12, 3:26 pm

[quote=Kanuckistani;9221415]Why do so many people believe the LDS is a cult?

Because of their beliefs and practices.

I personally think otherwise.

Ok

How could a church with nearly 15 million members, be a cult?

By believing what they believe.

And I know some Mormons and they told me the church doesn't dictate what they can and cannot do.

That is not entirely true. They dictate what you cannot eat and drink. They dictate if you can go to the temple (and by extension, heaven), they dictate what you think (if the prophet says, it MUST be accepted). There are other examples, but we will leave it to this.

Look at many Mormon politicians. They let their positions known and receive no criticism towards them from the LDS church. It's not like Mormons are held on a leash or anything.

They really don't. I have never heard Romney, for example, say anything about his Church's belief that God was once a sinful man or that Satan and Jesus are brothers, or that Adam is our God, etc etc. They keep all that pretty hush hush

Also, the church has no charismatic or authoritarian leader, and I recently talked to a Mormon who told me they don't worship any of their prophets (even Joseph Smith!). The current president seems like a genuinely nice, and democratic leader.

Their prophet is that very thing. What he says, GOES. As to worship...listen to some hymns about Joseph Smith, listen to talks at Sacrament Meeting. Listen to testimonies on Fast Sunday. See if you still believe they don't

Here's what a cult is defined as:

1. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

Well, they ARE relatively small compared to Catholics. but let me submit THIS to you.

I attended LDS Temple Ceremonies till 1989 (I am 51). In those ceremonies, we had secret handshakes and phrases that we had to SWEAR never to divulge. We took blood oaths that described how we were allow ourselves to be killed (there was more than one way we were to "suffer our lives to be taken"). Women had to swear strict obedience to their husbands. We would wear secret underwear (garments) with odd symbols on them. Looking back, it seems pretty cultish to me.

Also, I don't want to come off as pro-Mormon or anti-Catholic (I love my Catholic faith). So lets keep this civil.

I do not dispute your faith. Just let me say, another sign of cults is how hard it is to leave. When I left, some Mormons tried to kidnap my children. I was harassed at all hours of the day and night with calls and visitors telling me I was going to hell. I admire your convictions, but having been LDS, I totally understand when someone calls it a cult.

Be Blessed

Aelred Minor · #10 Apr 24, '12, 4:38 pm

I don't think the modern idea of a "cult" is a useful one. Its meaning is at once ambiguous and intensely negative, lending itself to abuse.

However, one thing that concerns me about the LDS's, apart of course from their beliefs themselves which I believe to be false, is the way they seem to often be less than up front (to say the least) to outsiders about what they actually believe, including to people they are trying to convert. I suspect the impression that deception is used in their apologetics and missionary work is part of what makes people label them as a cult.

twopekinguys · #11 Apr 24, '12, 4:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aelred Minor

I don't think the modern idea of a "cult" is a useful one. It's meaning is at once ambiguous and intensely negative, lending itself to abuse.

However, one thing that concerns me about the LDS's, apart of course from their beliefs themselves which I believe to be false, is the way they seem to often be less than up front (to say the least) to outsiders about what they actually believe, including to people they are trying to convert. I suspect the impression that deception is used in their apologetics and missionary work is part of what makes people label them as a cult.

It is commonly referred to as "lying for the Lord", or "Milk before meat."

That is one great thing about the RCIA process. No question, or teaching is out of bounds. At least in our parish.

Jerusha · #12 Apr 24, '12, 4:45 pm

"Cult" as it is used by many anti-Mormons, is just a derogatory label. Labels distance people from people. Describe the inner secrets of Mormonism, and its character is illuminated. The people are deceived-- pitiable, like Gollum. I mean, you can't really hate Gollum-- or at least I can't. You just can't trust him. In a sense, he is a victim of his environment-- isolated from the rest of humanity for so long, he invented his own reality, revolving around the ring, which had to be destroyed. He loved it so much he followed it down into Mount Doom.

Pray for them-- don't label them.

IggyAntiochus · #13 Apr 24, '12, 4:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerusha

"Cult" as it is used by many anti-Mormons, is just a derogatory label. Labels distance people from people. Describe the inner secrets of Mormonism, and its character is illuminated. The people are deceived-- pitiable, like Gollum. I mean, you can't really hate Gollum-- or at least I can't. You just can't trust him. In a sense, he is a victim of his environment-- isolated from the rest of humanity for so long, he invented his own reality, revolving around the ring, which had to be destroyed. He loved it so much he followed it down into Mount Doom.

Pray for them-- don't label them.

Does this mean the Osmond's are Ringwraiths???

"I'm a little bit country."

"I'm a little bit Witch King."

zerocrossing · #14 Apr 24, '12, 4:53 pm

Whether it is defined as a "cult" or not, it is certainly an entirely different religion from Catholic, Orthodox, or any type of Protestant Christianity.

Mormonism is not a "church" in the sense that Christians use the term. According to the Vatican, Mormon baptism is rendered invalid by non-Christian Mormon beliefs, and Mormons are therefore not part of the ecclesia.

Aelred Minor · #15 Apr 24, '12, 5:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerusha

"Cult" as it is used by many anti-Mormons, is just a derogatory label. Labels distance people from people. Describe the inner secrets of Mormonism, and its character is illuminated. The people are deceived-- pitiable, like Gollum. I mean, you can't really hate Gollum-- or at least I can't. You just can't trust him. In a sense, he is a victim of his environment-- isolated from the rest of humanity for so long, he invented his own reality, revolving around the ring, which had to be destroyed. He loved it so much he followed it down into Mount Doom.

Pray for them-- don't label them.

Smeagol's descent into complete slavery to evil, and destruction by it, was a gradual process that began even before Deagol found the ring, with his always looking down rather than up. Pitiable though he was his doom was also ultimately of his own making.

I'm not sure whether Mormonism actually fits the Gollum model of descent into sin that well. That is a very individual story of vice and temptation, while this is a case of a culture of sin and error (mixed with virtue and even an element of truth here and there, let's not forget).