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  #1  
Old Apr 24, '12, 8:11 pm
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

I didn't pick up on the death of prophets in my reading of the Old Testament. Which prophets were killed?

The upshot of my curiosity is, does the death of Jesus fall into that category, as the death of a prophet?

Am I overstating this to the point of being totally wrong? "Israel" didn't like the prophets so the prophets were killed. The Jews didn't like Jesus, similarly, so they went after Jesus?

Jesus' death has totally independent significance, his atoning sacrifice for sin. But, does it stand at the long end of the typology of those other deaths in scripture?
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  #2  
Old Apr 24, '12, 9:31 pm
Trebor135 Trebor135 is offline
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

Are you thinking of this passage from Matthew chapter 23?

[37] "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!
[38] Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate.
[39] For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

I'd like to hear some answers to this question too.
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  #3  
Old Apr 24, '12, 9:32 pm
GEddie GEddie is online now
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

It would be mistaken to refer to our LORD as a prophet; if for no other reason than that argues the Muslims' case for them. They claim that He was a prophet, no more.

A prophet speaks for GOD. Our LORD is God. Big difference.

On the other hand, HE is the end of a continnum that ran from Abel through the Prophets. HE taught just that. HE is the son who was killed after the father's servants were killed.

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  #4  
Old Apr 24, '12, 9:34 pm
Jaypeeto4 Jaypeeto4 is offline
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

Hi !!
Firstly, not "ALL" the Jews were involved in the death of Jesus.
It was primarily the Roman Political appointees to the High Priesthood,
from the "Sadduccee" party ((who rejected all of the Tanakh except the five books of Moses)) and SOME of the Pharisee Party, a group of whose Scribes followed Jesus around, harassing him and trying to trip him up on every point, and even accusing his miracles of being Satanic. But not even "ALL" the Pharisees were involved in this, either.

Still, even though that is the case,
those who DID oppose Jesus actively, for wrong motives, were, as Jesus Himself said,
"Filling up the measure of the Sins of their Forefathers who stoned and killed the prophets from" the beginning of the Nation's history. Not always, but like any society, Israel would go through cycles of purity, then fall into idolatry
((and the Prophets would warn, rant and righteously rage against it, and for that faithfulness, the ones who WERE apostate from God, would have them killed. King Manasseh was a horrible example of this. According to rabbinic traditions, King Manasseh personally ordered the holy Prophet Isaiah
to be SAWED IN HALF while alive. He was truly a monster, yet many years later, even HE repented and was forgiven by God and restored to the Throne of David --- remember that when we are howling for someone to be executed, God restored that mass-murderer Manasseh not only to forgiveness, but to the very Throne of David in Jerusalem too))
or other forms of infidelity. Israel went through periods of greatness, followed by periods of spiritual declension/apostasy, and the Tanakh (the "old testament") is literally chock full of examples of that.
Jesus, in attacking HIS generation for apostasy and general infidelity, wasn't doing ANYTHING different from what Holy Prophets BEFORE him had done, and were killed for it because they felt INSULTED by the Prophets's warnings, exposes, and condemnations of their unfaithful or hypocritical behavior. He warned that many in his generation,
even many of those who didn't OPENLY and actively oppose him, were living very sinful and hypocritical lives. And he warned that a judgment would fall on that generation.
There were a lot of good Jews, including among those who never officially became Christian, but at that time, if we believe our LORD, and I DO, the bad outnumbered the good. He could read hearts, we can't do that. Yet, hanging on the Cross, while some of the religious leaders and the common people were walking by and mocking and insulting him and spitting at him and making fun of him, he said, in all sincerity and truth,
"Father, FORGIVE THEM, for they DON'T know (i.e. realize) what they are doing."
In other words, most of them, even among his active opponents, had NO IDEA who it was that they had actually deemed to be worthy of death as a blasphemer. It didn't "register." They aren't alone. People of all races and religions do the same thing every day when they hear God's word, whether from the Old (tanakh) or New Testament. They feel they know better, and they attack those who try to get God's Word and will across to them.

But they saw miracles!! Yes, they did. But even the Old Testament warned the Jews that if a man even worked miracles, but tried to turn the people away from their Religion, he was to be condemned, miracles or not. These folks, when Jesus said things like,
BEFORE ABRAHAM CAME into existence, I AM, they were horrified by those remarks, and took up stones to stone him. This was a man well under 50 calling himself by the Divine Name. And a miracle or two that one has seen, is not evidence enough for such a claim. Most who had seen his miracles, had only seen one or two.
The group of Pharisee Scribes who followed him around, however, saw him do things that no other man had ever done or could do, and do so innumerable times. THESE men were warned against Blaspheming the Holy Spirit by calling him demonic in the face of mountains of miraculous evidence. But most first century Jews, even among his opponents in Jerusalem, didn't fall into that category, which is why he cried out to the Father to FORGIVE all of them, on the cross, because they truly DIDN'T know or realize just what they were doing by approving of his death and mocking him.
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  #5  
Old Apr 24, '12, 9:53 pm
Jaypeeto4 Jaypeeto4 is offline
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

Yes, that quote from Matthew 23 is authentic and accurate.
"Jerusalem" did stone and kill the prophets throughout Israel's history.
People do not like being told that they are being hypocrites or,
if they like the particular sin they are committing, that they are sinning.
We see that all around us today in the various groups of
willful sinners in America who are demanding the "RIGHT" to have their
sins enshrined into Federal Law as protected VIRTUES and who spew
truly venomous diatribes at the Church and Christianity and tradtional Judaism
for "hate mongering"
if anyone of these dares oppose their almighty agenda.

When Jesus overturned the money tables in the Temple and drove out the animal sellers, it wasn't because he "opposed" animal sacrifices or that he didn't KNOW that many people had to BUY the animals needed for the sacrifice. In fact, that was really why he did it, according to most bible scholars. Most Jews lived OUTSIDE of Jerusalem.
What was happening was that the Roman-appointed High Priests, from wealthy Sadduccee families, had a kickback game going with these guys, the sellers.
You see this in business and politics all the time. Even in religion, even sorry
to say, in our Own.
The people who bought their animals were usually not from Jerusalem, but Jews from other parts of the Country or even from other lands, who had to convert their money into Temple currency. These guys, just like Saint Matthew used to do when he was a Tax Collector before his conversion, would gouge the Jewish pilgrims by charging too much to convert their money into Temple Currency and kick back some of the profits to the temple authorities. Even happens in the Catholic Church with some of our clergy at times. Nothing ever changes. We might like to think it does, but it doesn't. Human nature tends toward sin and greed. Jesus saw this greedy, sacrilegious behavior going on right in the Temple and he overturned their tables and even drove out them and their animals with a whip saying that they had turned the LORD's temple into a den of thieves. This ticked off some of the authorities. They didn't like that. Those who have adopted the habit of doing unscrupulous things, even to their own people, don't like to be exposed. And those individuals don't usually ever repent, either.
Lest anyone think, oooooh those greedy Jews!! Uh uh. This goes on everywhere.
In business, in churches, in parishes and congregations, and in politics, oh good lord,
the politicians are past-masters at these kinds of things. My own Catholic condo leader, whom I will not name, has I am morally certain, a kickback game going with a plumber friend of his. Our building is several decades old and the pipes are going. His friend is making a killing, cuz he is sending him to all the units. This guy is sharp as a tack.
No way is he just being nice to his friend. He's too INSISTENT that his friend be hired, to the point of rudeness. That spells a vested-interest, not mere friendship, but $$$$.

Last edited by Jaypeeto4; Apr 24, '12 at 9:55 pm. Reason: typos
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  #6  
Old Apr 24, '12, 10:57 pm
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEddie View Post
It would be mistaken to refer to our LORD as a prophet; if for no other reason than that argues the Muslims' case for them. They claim that He was a prophet, no more.

A prophet speaks for GOD. Our LORD is God. Big difference.

On the other hand, HE is the end of a continnum that ran from Abel through the Prophets. HE taught just that. HE is the son who was killed after the father's servants were killed.

ICXC NIKA
He is Priest, Prophet and King. In Luke 4:24, He referred to Himself as a prophet. However, He is the Alpha and the Omega, which put the lie to subsequent prophets who contradict Him. The Samaritan woman at Jacob's well (John 4:19) recognized Him as a prophet. As well, Jesus was rejected, condemned and crucified at Jerusalem. It is safe to call Him a prophet, as He is a prophet, yet more than a prophet.
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  #7  
Old Apr 25, '12, 12:19 am
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

This is good, so far. We've got one dead prophet, Isaiah, sawn in two.

OK, any more out there?

Names, book, chapter, verse. Please and thank you.
-----------------------------------------------------------

In the mean time, I'm not trying to rekindle the argument at the Jews killing Jesus. The Pont. Biblical Commission dealth with this in their c.2005 paper The Jewish People and their Scriptures in the Christian Bible.

Yes, Jaypeeto4, many of your points are raised, par excellence, in a commentary on Romans, which deals extensively with the Jews rejecting Jesus. The early church writers credit Paul and the other Jews of Jesus' day with being the REAL remnant of Israel saved by grace, faith in Jesus Christ.

That and other perspectives were the reason I want to delve into a big commentary on Romans, in the first place.
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  #8  
Old Apr 25, '12, 1:10 am
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

I do not believe that there is a list anywhere, as the identity of the body of prophets that God sent certainly remains unknown to us. Even Caiphas prophesied when he declared that it was better for one man to die than the entire nation (John 18:14). However, many prophets certainly were killed, as Jesus alluded to in His parable of the vineyard (Matthew 21, Mark 12, Luke 20) and testified to in:

Luke 11:47-49
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Woe to you who build the monuments of the prophets: and your fathers killed them. Truly you bear witness that you consent to the doings of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and you build their sepulchres. For this cause also the wisdom of God said: I will send to them prophets and apostles; and some of them they will kill and persecute.
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  #9  
Old Apr 25, '12, 7:41 am
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumpy View Post
This is good, so far. We've got one dead prophet, Isaiah, sawn in two.

OK, any more out there?

Names, book, chapter, verse. Please and thank you.
John the baptist was a prophet.
...during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the desert. (Luke 3:2)
The word of God coming is a Biblical way to state that whomever the verse refers to is a prophet. John does prophesy that the axe lies at the foot of the tree, that trees which do not bear good fruit will be cut down, that one is coming who's sandal strap he is not worthy to untie, etc.

John is the last of the prophets. John is a bridge from the prophets of the Old Testament to the full revelation of God through Jesus Christ in the New Testament, and like many of the Prophets in the Old Testament, John is killed.
Prompted by her mother, she said, “Give me here on a platter the head of John the Baptist.” The king was distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he ordered that her request be granted and had John beheaded in the prison. His head was brought in on a platter and given to the girl, who carried it to her mother. John’s disciples came and took his body and buried it. Then they went and told Jesus. (Matthew 14:8-12)

The Prophet Zechariah was killed in the Temple itself and Jesus himself makes reference to it.
so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood shed upon earth, from the righteous blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. (Matthew 23:35)
Jerimiah, Ezekiel, Mikah and Amos were all martyred, although I'm not sure that thier martyrdom is recorded in the Bible. The bible does not record all prophets who ever existed.


-Tim-
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Old Apr 25, '12, 9:19 am
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

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He is Priest, Prophet and King. In Luke 4:24, He referred to Himself as a prophet. However, He is the Alpha and the Omega, which put the lie to subsequent prophets who contradict Him. The Samaritan woman at Jacob's well (John 4:19) recognized Him as a prophet. As well, Jesus was rejected, condemned and crucified at Jerusalem. It is safe to call Him a prophet, as He is a prophet, yet more than a prophet.
Actually her estimation of Him went from "a Jew" all the way to "The Christ"





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Old Apr 25, '12, 11:50 am
Mintaka Mintaka is offline
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

Ahab and Jezebel killed a shedload of prophets. Obadiah the steward hid a hundred of them in a cave to try to keep them safe, but Elijah says in several places that all the prophets of Israel got killed except him.

Micaiah son of Imlah prophesied disaster at Ramoth Gilead, and was imprisoned and put on bread and water for his pains, only to be released when the king came back safely. But the king didn't come back except dead.
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Old Apr 25, '12, 11:59 am
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

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Actually her estimation of Him went from "a Jew" all the way to "The Christ"





The point hat I clumsily tried to make is that among all else that He is, He is also a prophet.
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Old Apr 26, '12, 5:28 am
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

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The point hat I clumsily tried to make is that among all else that He is, He is also a prophet.
I got it you made your point well, I just like pointing out that progression. Every 10 lines at that!
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Old Apr 26, '12, 1:16 pm
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

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I got it you made your point well, I just like pointing out that progression. Every 10 lines at that!
Well done! She was a proto-evangelist, so to speak, telling about Him and bringing others to Him. And, these were Samaritans, this event being a prophecy of His salvation being offered to all.
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Old Apr 27, '12, 3:41 am
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Default Re: The Old Testament Prophets: Killed?

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The Prophet Zechariah was killed in the Temple itself and Jesus himself makes reference to it.
so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood shed upon earth, from the righteous blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. (Matthew 23:35)
It's really unclear which 'Zechariah' Jesus was referring to here. The prophet Zechariah is indeed identified as "son of Berechiah, son of Iddo" in two places in the opening verses of the prophetic book (1:1, 7). Ezra 5:1 and 6:14 refer to Haggai and Zechariah son of Iddo the Seer. Nehemiah 12:16 includes Zechariah son of Iddo in a list of priests and Levites, but it is not certain that this Zechariah is the same as the prophet. (Neither Ezra nor Nehemiah identifies Zechariah as son of Berechiah, although a Berechiah is named in Nehemiah 3:4, 30; 6:18.) The Masoretic version of Isaiah 8:2 has a reference to a Zechariah who is called "son of Jeberechiah." For some reason, this becomes "son of Barachiah" in the Septuagint.

There was a Zechariah (son of Jehoiada) who was stoned to death "in the court of the house of Yhwh" in 2 Chronicles 24:20-21. The Septuagint calls this Zechariah "Azarias son of Iodae;" the name 'Zechariah' is only applied to him in the Masoretic text and in Josephus (Antiquities 9.166-169):
But when he died, after having lived years, a man just and kind in all things, and was buried in the royal tombs in Hierosolyma because he had restored the kingship to the family of David, King Joas gave up his concern for God. The chiefs of the crowd degenerated together with him so that they offended against what was just and regarded as best among them. God, however, was displeased by this change on the part of the king and the others; he sent the prophets to raise their voices against what they were doing and to make them cease from vileness. They, however, had so strong a lust and terrible desire for this that, neither by what those who were before them had suffered, along with entire household, in punishment for their outrages against the ordinances nor by what the prophets kept predicting, were they persuaded to change their minds and turn away from those things to which they had turned when acting lawlessly. Rather, the king, unmindful of his father's benefactions, even directed that Zacharias, the son of the high priest Iodas, be killed in the sacred precinct by throwing [stones]. [He did this] because God had appointed [Zacharias] to prophesy. Standing in the middle of the crowd, he advised both them and the king to do what was just, and predicted that they would undergo great punishment if they were not persuaded. But as Zacharias was dying, being put to death in a cruel and violent way, he made God the witness and avenger of what he suffered in return for his kind advice and the things his father had obtained for Joas.
Still another tradition proposes that the Zechariah named here was the father of John the Baptist.

Quote:
Jerimiah, Ezekiel, Mikah and Amos were all martyred, although I'm not sure that thier martyrdom is recorded in the Bible. The bible does not record all prophets who ever existed.


-Tim-
No, they aren't recorded. According to a tradition first mentioned by Tertullian (Scorpiace viii), Jeremiah was stoned to death in Egypt by his fellow Jews because of his prophecies, but we don't know whether this was indeed the case. A late Jewish and Christian tradition has it that Ezekiel was arrested and put to death by an Israelite prince, sometimes identified as Jehoiachin. Late traditions also propose that Amos was martyred under the ill-treatment of Amaziah the priest of Bethel and his son (cf. Amos 7:12-17). Micah was according to the Lives of the Prophets killed by Joram, the son of King Ahab (which is impossible in real life, as Micah preached a century after Joram's reign).

I noticed that the Coptic Synaxarion has different traditions: in this version Micah apparently died in peace (his death is classified as a "Departure" rather than a "Martyrdom"). So also Amos, here presented as succumbing to illness at the end of his life. Ezekiel meanwhile was killed by Jews in Babylon who worshipped idols. Jeremiah's is pretty consistent: he was stoned by Jews in Egypt and then died in prison.
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