Angry about NFP

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

I find that I am angry with God, angry with the role that the Catholic Church has assigned to women. I hate that I am forbade from using birth control and am supposed to accept a possible pregnancy every time I have sex with my husband. I hate it, but I follow the Church's teachings. Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. Despite using NFP, I became pregnant again 7 months later and had our daughter. I do not WANT any other children right now. I am so completely adamant against having another child that I refuse to have sex with my husband. It has been over a year now since we last had sex. It also doesn't help that he is military and deploys quite often.

I have read other posts about NFP and I must admit to getting angry when women in my situation are called irrational about their fear of getting pregnant. I also get angry when they are told to go talk to a priest. I don't want to talk to a priest. It's easy for a man to say, "No, we can't use condoms because it's against the Church" because HE is not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant. HIS few minutes of pleasure lead to a woman being pregnant for 10 months, going through labor and delivery (which could kill her, mind you), raising a newborn (and the other children), trying to get her body back, etc. Men will never understand, and I find that men are the ones constantly telling me no. I'm sorry, but sex is not worth it to me. I cannot stress how much I absolutely do NOT want another child right now. To me, abstinence is the only sure way I will not get pregnant. I don't care if NFP is 99% effective, because I was that damn 1%.

Call me selfish, but I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex. It is completely unfair. I want to go back to school and finish my degree, I want to focus on my career. I do not want to stay home and care for six children.

I need some guidance from women who are in my situation. Women who want to follow their faith, but also do not want to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives. How do you handle this? How can I get rid of this anger? How can I save my marriage?

So you had sex outside of marriage but you're mad at the Church and God? That act is designed to create offspring, or did you miss a few critical lessons growing up?

I am very disgusted with the tone of your post. You make it sound as if having 2 beautiful blessings has been a curse. "I do not want to stay home and care for 6 children." Well I could say something very uncharitable such as that I hope you do not have those 6 children if you are not going to love and appreciate each one. I feel sorry for you if that is how you view being a mother.

How do you get from making love to your husband and having 2 children to being "barefoot and pregnant" your entire life? That is so insulting to mothers of many children!

Save your marriage? You mean, you would leave your husband if you can't use contraception to prevent another baby? How does your husband feel about your 2 blessings? Or do you cancel off his opinion because he doesn't get to experience the joy of carrying a baby inside him, like you do?

I had all day nausea for 3 mos. with my 1st son, 4 mos. with my 2nd. Still, I loved being pregnant, even when my ankles swelled, my feet spread out, and I felt like Sigourney Weaver with an alien growing inside me because the babies would wake up when I wanted to sleep.

Get yourself to confession, sister. Do it now. Confess your selfishness. That's what it is, selfishness. You are a MOTHER NOW. Not a college student any more. Be a mother to your children. You can go back to school later on. What were your plans anyway? You have just been given 2 eternal souls to foster here on earth! What career could top THAT?



Snap out of it.

[losh14]

Thank you, jonnlaureng, for sharing something so intimate and that you're so passionate about. That takes courage and I hope it is received as such.

I'm a 30-something Catholic male, married and father of two girls. My wife and I have practiced NFP since we married and were successful in planning and avoiding pregnancy. That said, we don't have sex nearly as much we would like. Although right now, with two small kids, we don't really get the chance.

And I know that our being successful gives no comfort to those couples for whom NFP doesn't work.

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

I do not WANT any other children right now. I am so completely adamant against having another child that I refuse to have sex with my husband. It has been over a year now since we last had sex.

As painful and difficult as this is, it's also impressive that you two have exercised this level of self-control. I think the longest we have gone is 6 months (partly due to pregnancy).

I can't even begin, though, to understand how difficult it must be at home to have your husband away for such a prolonged and stressful reason as deployment. Even while consciously avoiding sex, there's still the desire for some form of intimacy that doens't have to necessarily be sexual but still requires the other person to be there.

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

I have read other posts about NFP and I must admit to getting angry when women in my situation are called irrational about their fear of getting pregnant.

It'd be irrational to think that sex doesn't lead to babies. That's sort of the purpose.

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

I also get angry when they are told to go talk to a priest. I don't want to talk to a priest.

Understandable. Have you been able to find women counselors - especially married mothers - in your area? Locally, we have several through the Cana Institute at St. Louis University - we went to one for pre-Cana and relationship counseling. Priests fulfill their sacerdotal ministry excellently but their talents otherwise vary widely so I'm sad that your priests haven't been understanding or helpful but I'm not surprised that you feel little empathy from a celibate man.

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

It's easy for a man to say... Men will never understand, and I find that men are the ones constantly telling me no. I'm sorry, but sex is not worth it to me.

You are completely fair to say so. And I agree, men like me won't ever understand, even if we're in the delivery room, or changing diapers afterwards and involved in our kids' lives as much as we can, our bodies don't bear the stress of pregnancy.

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

I need some guidance from women who are in my situation. Women who want to follow their faith, but also do not want to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives. How do you handle this? How can I get rid of this anger? How can I save my marriage?

I really hope you find some guidance - it may not be here but ask locally. Are there mom's groups you can go to for support? I'm sure you're not the only couple practicing NFP, and even artificial methods aren't entirely without error so that the fear of having an unintended pregnancy remains real regardless of method.

It sounds like this is one of many things stressing you terribly, and not without reason. I feel awful when I travel for business and leave my wife at home with our 2 daughters, I couldn't imagine a six-month deployment. When one of those stresses is compounded as being a matter of faith, it may seem like you've lost hte ability to resort to your faith to find strength. Please still seek the Lord and His help in your life. If our walk with Christ is a relationship then it would be incomplete if we weren't angry with Him from time to time, but tell Him and let Him respond to you.

In the meantime, look at where you can find support among people as well. We all need other people to be close to us as a matter of human existence, and without your husband you may find you need more help socially and spiritually as well as keeping the household together.

Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady

...The woman is the one who harms her body and her health. She's the one who has to take time off work, and sometimes leave her career behind all together...

When my wife delivered our first it was by C-section. I was struck by how they had her lay down with her arms out in the operating room, holding a handle on either side so that it looked cruciform, that she was sacrificing her body for our oldest.

Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady

If NFP is something that you're committed to then you and your husband should at the very least get counseling to help you deal with the long periods of abstinence and you should be very, very sure that you're not fertile when you do have sex.

Counseling and support. I've been told there are fertility specialists within the organizations that tout NFP who specialize in diagnosing underlying reproductive issues that affect health in general as well as prevent NFP from being as reliable as it should.

Originally Posted by someperson555

trust me lol, NFP is no fun for men either, we have to wait until the women has her infertile cycles so that ruins a lot of romantic occasions.

I agree with you here at least.

[LucyLight]

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

I find that I am angry with God, angry with the role that the Catholic Church has assigned to women. I hate that I am forbade from using birth control and am supposed to accept a possible pregnancy every time I have sex with my husband. I hate it, but I follow the Church's teachings. Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. Despite using NFP, I became pregnant again 7 months later and had our daughter. I do not WANT any other children right now. I am so completely adamant against having another child that I refuse to have sex with my husband. It has been over a year now since we last had sex. It also doesn't help that he is military and deploys quite often.

I have read other posts about NFP and I must admit to getting angry when women in my situation are called irrational about their fear of getting pregnant. I also get angry when they are told to go talk to a priest. I don't want to talk to a priest. It's easy for a man to say, "No, we can't use condoms because it's against the Church" because HE is not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant. HIS few minutes of pleasure lead to a woman being pregnant for 10 months, going through labor and delivery (which could kill her, mind you), raising a newborn (and the other children), trying to get her body back, etc. Men will never understand, and I find that men are the ones constantly telling me no. I'm sorry, but sex is not worth it to me. I cannot stress how much I absolutely do NOT want another child right now. To me, abstinence is the only sure way I will not get pregnant. I don't care if NFP is 99% effective, because I was that damn 1%.

Call me selfish, but I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex. It is completely unfair. I want to go back to school and finish my degree, I want to focus on my career. I do not want to stay home and care for six children.

I need some guidance from women who are in my situation. Women who want to follow their faith, but also do not want to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives. How do you handle this? How can I get rid of this anger? How can I save my marriage?

Obviously pregnancy and raising children is and will probably always be harder on women. Fortunately for me my husband does agree as he has been a witness to it. I feel sorry for women whose husbands don't realize this. I understand how this could make a woman feel a lot of resentment. Although I think that more men are aware of this nowadays. It must of been very difficult to have a child so young. Good for you for choosing life.

The church does not say that you have to have 6 kids. We are called to be generous but not every woman is created to handle a large family. Why not go back to work part-time. If your working part-time and change your mind about having another child it would be easier to do both.

As far as NFP goes I think you should give it a shot again. It really does work if done correctly. I think poor instruction is the cause for a lot of suprise pregnancys. There are several posters who could probably help with that. For me the abstinance part is hard but since you are abstaining completely this might be easier for you. It would certainly be good for your marriage.

[St Francis]

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

...Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. ...

I hope that my words will come across as kindly as I mean them, but they may sound harsh just because they may be other than what you want to hear. Let me also add that I am Annie, a stay-at-home homeschooling mother, despite my user name.

Life is full of decisions and also full of problems. I used to look at situations other than my own and think that they looked better than the situation I was in. That is a very human reaction, because we see all the warts of our own situation, and only the good outside of other situations.

You have made decisions. Some were good, but some.... not so good. You decided to have sex when you were not married, not ready to have a baby. (You then went on to make good decisions, to have your baby, etc.,; I am not commenting on the morality of your decision but the fact that you did make a decision.

And see, your decision was not compatible with what you wree doing at the time, but by making the decision, you were in effect deciding against definitely continuing what you were doing at the time, since your decision was one that included the potential of a baby.

That decision was also potentially (and turned out to be) one of becoming a mother. Luckily your then-boyfriend accepted his responsibility in the matter too (not that it would have been necessary for him to marry you to accept his responsibility, but he did both, accepting his responsibility and marrying you). So your life is much easier than it would have been had he not done either or only one.

Now, our society says that a person is valuable because of the economic contribution they make to society. Women who stay are home and raise children are not considered valuable.

Moreover, most sex-ed classes emphasize not getting caught to the point that I believe even married women feel somewhat flustered about having children, esp if they then stay home with their children.

There is a disconnect between ourselves (sah mothers) and society. This can be incredibly tough!!!!! We spend years in a world where sex is ok and being pregnant or having a baby is not ok; a world in which working for money is what gives us value, and staying at home is sneered at. In short, we SAH mothers are running very much against what society has told us all our lives.

(Just as an aside, I would like to say that I believe that each family should arrange itself in the way that best suits all its members, and that may involve a mother working outside the home for whatever reason other than social pressure as long as this works out for all the members of the family, so I do not in any way mean to imply that there is anything wrong with mothers having jobs outside the home.)

You, my dear, are at home with two small children. You fear the addition of future children. I think that you need to think about why precisely you feel that way. And this would be best undertaken with someone you know in real life or can meet with in real life--ideally some woman who has learned to find happiness in her family life and considered these issues, but some friend or counselor (priest, NFP teacher, psychologist) who would be able to help you sort this all out.

Being a military wife can be very difficult. I grew up in a military family, and my husband, altho not in the military, has had to be away from home for his work a lot. There is the constant knowledge that things can change at any minute, making it difficult to really settle into any community; there is the constant coming and going of the husband/father--and this is a real transition: the family must function when he is gone, but open up enough to let him back in when he returns and this can take weeks or months of readjustment.

I hope that you will look for and find someone with whom to discuss these issue irl, because it is easy to see that you are feeling a lot of pain over them. It is hard, when one is feeling pain, to be the best one can be.

[TBenedicta]

Originally Posted by jonnlaureng

I find that I am angry with God, angry with the role that the Catholic Church has assigned to women. I hate that I am forbade from using birth control and am supposed to accept a possible pregnancy every time I have sex with my husband. I hate it, but I follow the Church's teachings. Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. Despite using NFP, I became pregnant again 7 months later and had our daughter. I do not WANT any other children right now. I am so completely adamant against having another child that I refuse to have sex with my husband. It has been over a year now since we last had sex. It also doesn't help that he is military and deploys quite often.

I have read other posts about NFP and I must admit to getting angry when women in my situation are called irrational about their fear of getting pregnant. I also get angry when they are told to go talk to a priest. I don't want to talk to a priest. It's easy for a man to say, "No, we can't use condoms because it's against the Church" because HE is not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant. HIS few minutes of pleasure lead to a woman being pregnant for 10 months, going through labor and delivery (which could kill her, mind you), raising a newborn (and the other children), trying to get her body back, etc. Men will never understand, and I find that men are the ones constantly telling me no. I'm sorry, but sex is not worth it to me. I cannot stress how much I absolutely do NOT want another child right now. To me, abstinence is the only sure way I will not get pregnant. I don't care if NFP is 99% effective, because I was that damn 1%.

Call me selfish, but I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex. It is completely unfair. I want to go back to school and finish my degree, I want to focus on my career. I do not want to stay home and care for six children.

I need some guidance from women who are in my situation. Women who want to follow their faith, but also do not want to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives. How do you handle this? How can I get rid of this anger? How can I save my marriage?

I'm sorry you're going through these difficulties. Try reading the Book of James and anything by John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, or Edith Stein. All have something to share about the "night" we experience when we feel dry in prayer or disconnected from God.

Here's the thing: you are a woman. You are created BY God, spiritually and biologically, to be receptive to pregnancy. Yet you are angry about it. Ask yourself why. This isn't your husband's fault.

We're blessed that the Church in its wisdom has given us a reliable way to postpone pregnancies: Natural Family Planning or Fertility Awareness. As others have said, these methods are more effective than standard artificial b.c. and yet are designed in a way that respects God's creation (our bodies), fertility, and life. The Church does not expect every woman to bear as many children as possible. Read Humanae Vitae for clarification.

Now, something you said resonates with me: " I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex." Excuse me for being blunt, but don't YOU want to engage in the marital act as well? Or do you simply lack the desire? God created our sexuality, male and female, to complement each other. If your sex life with your husband has suffered, I don't think it's because of your husband or because of NFP (as I've said, NFP is as effective as other forms of b.c.). It may be a deeper seeded issue, either spiritual or psychological. The only way to save your marriage, then, would be through prayer and counseling.


Something about the way you write hints at a disrespect for and distrust of men. Keep in mind that Jesus was man. That his successors were men, by God's own design. It's not a conspiracy against women, but rather, a plan for all humanity.

Peace!

[spunjalebi]

I have to wonder, if the Church is so irrational and barbaric and whatever else people have to say about it, how in the world did it stand the test of time...interesting.

[Apologista]

Originally Posted by St Francis

I hope that my words will come across as kindly as I mean them, but they may sound harsh just because they may be other than what you want to hear. Let me also add that I am Annie, a stay-at-home homeschooling mother, despite my user name.

Life is full of decisions and also full of problems. I used to look at situations other than my own and think that they looked better than the situation I was in. That is a very human reaction, because we see all the warts of our own situation, and only the good outside of other situations.

You have made decisions. Some were good, but some.... not so good. You decided to have sex when you were not married, not ready to have a baby. (You then went on to make good decisions, to have your baby, etc.,; I am not commenting on the morality of your decision but the fact that you did make a decision.

And see, your decision was not compatible with what you wree doing at the time, but by making the decision, you were in effect deciding against definitely continuing what you were doing at the time, since your decision was one that included the potential of a baby.

That decision was also potentially (and turned out to be) one of becoming a mother. Luckily your then-boyfriend accepted his responsibility in the matter too (not that it would have been necessary for him to marry you to accept his responsibility, but he did both, accepting his responsibility and marrying you). So your life is much easier than it would have been had he not done either or only one.

Now, our society says that a person is valuable because of the economic contribution they make to society. Women who stay are home and raise children are not considered valuable.

Moreover, most sex-ed classes emphasize not getting caught to the point that I believe even married women feel somewhat flustered about having children, esp if they then stay home with their children.

There is a disconnect between ourselves (sah mothers) and society. This can be incredibly tough!!!!! We spend years in a world where sex is ok and being pregnant or having a baby is not ok; a world in which working for money is what gives us value, and staying at home is sneered at. In short, we SAH mothers are running very much against what society has told us all our lives.

(Just as an aside, I would like to say that I believe that each family should arrange itself in the way that best suits all its members, and that may involve a mother working outside the home for whatever reason other than social pressure as long as this works out for all the members of the family, so I do not in any way mean to imply that there is anything wrong with mothers having jobs outside the home.)

You, my dear, are at home with two small children. You fear the addition of future children. I think that you need to think about why precisely you feel that way. And this would be best undertaken with someone you know in real life or can meet with in real life--ideally some woman who has learned to find happiness in her family life and considered these issues, but some friend or counselor (priest, NFP teacher, psychologist) who would be able to help you sort this all out.

Being a military wife can be very difficult. I grew up in a military family, and my husband, altho not in the military, has had to be away from home for his work a lot. There is the constant knowledge that things can change at any minute, making it difficult to really settle into any community; there is the constant coming and going of the husband/father--and this is a real transition: the family must function when he is gone, but open up enough to let him back in when he returns and this can take weeks or months of readjustment.

I hope that you will look for and find someone with whom to discuss these issue irl, because it is easy to see that you are feeling a lot of pain over them. It is hard, when one is feeling pain, to be the best one can be.

Annie, you say it very well and with charity and empathy. Hope it helps the OP. I would also like to suggest to her and to others in a similar situation this: I know some military wives, and have heard that there are support groups for the spouses. Have you checked with your base to find out if there is one in your area? Maybe you could trade babysitting with some other military wives, and cry on each other's shoulders if you feel the need. It could turn out to be a great stress reliever and a way to make new friends.

Try to step back, take some deep breaths, and pray for God to give you deeper wisdom and insight that might help you feel less angry and resentful, and perhaps be able to see the situation you're in with more optimism. The trials we go through in life, whatever they might be, often feel worse or better depending on how we consciously choose to view them. I will pray for you to feel better. God bless.

[LucyLight]

Sometimes I can't stand these forums. Their have been some wonderful posts here but some of the posts hit below the belt. The OP is upset and is seeking help. She said she was angry and didn't want to be. Getting anrgy back at her shows a lack of empathy. Berating the OP and pointing out things like you shouldn't of had sex out of marriage is unhelpful and smug. If you can't respond with charity to someone who is upset and asking for help than why are you responding? What is your intention?

[Kelfa28]

Originally Posted by St Francis

I hope that my words will come across as kindly as I mean them, but they may sound harsh just because they may be other than what you want to hear. Let me also add that I am Annie, a stay-at-home homeschooling mother, despite my user name.
Now, our society says that a person is valuable because of the economic contribution they make to society. Women who stay are home and raise children are not considered valuable.

Moreover, most sex-ed classes emphasize not getting caught to the point that I believe even married women feel somewhat flustered about having children, esp if they then stay home with their children.

There is a disconnect between ourselves (sah mothers) and society. This can be incredibly tough!!!!! We spend years in a world where sex is ok and being pregnant or having a baby is not ok; a world in which working for money is what gives us value, and staying at home is sneered at. In short, we SAH mothers are running very much against what society has told us all our lives.

(Just as an aside, I would like to say that I believe that each family should arrange itself in the way that best suits all its members, and that may involve a mother working outside the home for whatever reason other than social pressure as long as this works out for all the members of the family, so I do not in any way mean to imply that there is anything wrong with mothers having jobs outside the home.)

You, my dear, are at home with two small children. You fear the addition of future children. I think that you need to think about why precisely you feel that way. And this would be best undertaken with someone you know in real life or can meet with in real life--ideally some woman who has learned to find happiness in her family life and considered these issues, but some friend or counselor (priest, NFP teacher, psychologist) who would be able to help you sort this all out.

Being a military wife can be very difficult. I grew up in a military family, and my husband, altho not in the military, has had to be away from home for his work a lot. There is the constant knowledge that things can change at any minute, making it difficult to really settle into any community; there is the constant coming and going of the husband/father--and this is a real transition: the family must function when he is gone, but open up enough to let him back in when he returns and this can take weeks or months of readjustment.

I hope that you will look for and find someone with whom to discuss these issue irl, because it is easy to see that you are feeling a lot of pain over them. It is hard, when one is feeling pain, to be the best one can be.

Thank-you so much for this post!
I just became a new mother myself. I gave up my career as an EMT in order to stay home with my baby. Granted I'm also in school too but it's becoming harder and harder to finish my degree in the allotted time I had planned out.

I've never been unemployed since the age of 15 and it's far more difficult then I thought it would be to ask for money from my Fiance (very soon to be husband). To the point where I haven't bought a single thing for myself in months because I feel so guilty spending my Fiance's money.

Being a stay-at-home mom is difficult too. I have no idea how single mother's handle a baby by themselves. Lack of sleep, lack of personal comforts, lack of social contacts and being able to hang out and go out anymore.
My Fiance was at work and got a chance to go out to dinner with his buddies. He called me from the bar just to let me know where he was. I was holding our crying baby and trying not to cry myself.
I told him to please not tell me these things anymore. I still haven't had a day or night off or had a chance to leave the house for more then an hour or so without my baby girl.

Still, I LOVE being a mother! Despite everything, I haven't lived my life until I was able to meet my little girl. She is everything to me and I want more.

But I want to space our children. I want to be able to finish my degree because it's something I've always wanted to do and I want our family to have a back up if my Fiance loses his job.

While I trust NFP to work well to space our children. I have a feeling we will be abstinent for quite some time until my cycles come back and I can really start practicing NFP correctly without any scares. I don't want to be abstinent. I miss the intimacy with my Fiance. We gave up sex quite some time ago and I'm anxious to get it back but in order to make this work...it looks like we will have too.

Oh well, I have to trust in God and pray this will work.

[losh14]

Originally Posted by JNdoum

. I'm 15 years old, and I realize that sex cannot be solely for enjoyment.

Oh, kiddo, I'm going to thank God for you every single day and hope that you're contagious! It breaks my heart when I see how some of the kids your age are, and it doesn't help that most of them weren't any better when I was 16. I wish I could tell them how much it sucks to have a one-night stand, or how much it hurts to get an STD test (think Q-tip, but much bigger and metallic with way too little cotton at the tip), or how agonizing it is to have a friend ask if you'll drive her to get an abortion.

Originally Posted by JNdoum

It seems a sort of moot point to simply do it for the sake of doing it. Oftentimes I don't see the point of anyone having sex at all, because a lot of the time it's used to hurt themselves and others.

Another quote I can't think of the attribution:
Sex is. Sex builds no bridges, ends no wars, makes no discoveries. Sex doesn't feed a single hungry person or end the misery of a broken heart. Sex does very little, and yet costs so very much. Sex just is.

Originally Posted by JNdoum

When you're using contraception, it generally means that you aren't doing what you're doing out of love, or for the glory of God. As I see it, if you don't do it for that, what's the point?

Contraception can be used in loving sex but always has an element of fear. It's an imperfect answer to an imperfect situation. That may not be the majority use - no one collects statistics on this sort of thing. Certainly a condom for a one-night stand isn't loving - fearful certainly. In that situation it's like Seinfeld's helmet - ie, the helmet is something devised to protect the brain that isn't smart enough to stop doing what could hurt it in the first place.

And you don't know fear until you hear a condom break. This subtle popping sound ... followed by terror, a quick scramble off the floor and a really uncomfortable conversation in the bathroom while he washes and she sits and a lot of "are you sure" and "when were you tested" and finally "if we had a baby, could you love it?". And if he pauses too long there's no need for him to answer... why on earth would you get yourself in this situation in the first place? For 15, you know more than many of the people I know who are twice your age. Enjoy school, study hard, spend time with your friends. Sex can wait, it's not like we're running out of it any time soon.

[losh14]

Originally Posted by Kelfa28

I just became a new mother myself. I gave up my career as an EMT in order to stay home with my baby. Granted I'm also in school too but it's becoming harder and harder to finish my degree in the allotted time I -had planned out.

You've much going on - congratulations on your little baby girl! I hope you and your fiancee have a wonderful marriage ahead of you despite starting off a little earlier than you may have intended (still being in school and all).

As encouragement, I quit my job three months after I married my wife and went back full time for graduate school. The first semester was an adjustment. The second semester I had all night classes - we saw each other only a few hours a week and much of that was eating or showering.

Originally Posted by Kelfa28

To the point where I haven't bought a single thing for myself in months because I feel so guilty spending my Fiance's money.

Frugality is good but save a little something for yourself if you can - it doesn't have to be much. My wife is soon to be a stay-at-home Mom (quitting her job in three weeks) and we've budgeted a monthly allowance for her (and one for me, smaller than hers),.

Originally Posted by Kelfa28

Lack of sleep, lack of personal comforts, lack of social contacts and being able to hang out and go out anymore.

I have to admire single parents - it's so much work and so hard, especially early on. It does get better - there's this wonderful night when you realize you've actually been asleep a solid six hours and the baby is still snoozing happily.

You should try to schedule time out for yourself and let him do the same - one night each week for each of you, even if just for an hour. It does help, you need to have adult conversation from time to time.

Also, we've found that it is much easier (and cheaper) to have breakfast or brunch dates than dinner dates. Also easier to get a sitter for that short hour or 90 minutes, especially if it's during nap time. You do need that reconnection,

Originally Posted by Kelfa28

While I trust NFP to work well to space our children. I have a feeling we will be abstinent for quite some time until my cycles come back and I can really start practicing NFP correctly without any scares.

Between sleep deprivation, hormonal changes for you and him (guys can have something like baby blues too), stress of a wedding and trying to figure out your futures, neither of you may be in the mood. My wife's periods didn't return until our oldest was 14 months, and she was still rather wary of me touching her.

If you do nurse regularly, that's supposed to be a natural birth spacing, although it doesn't work for everyone (two of our friends had to wean early because they were pregnant and couldn't sustain the caloric need).

Originally Posted by Kelfa28

I don't want to be abstinent. I miss the intimacy with my Fiance. We gave up sex quite some time ago and I'm anxious to get it back but in order to make this work...it looks like we will have too.

Trust in God, indeed, but remember that intimacy isn't just sexual. Go back to whatever makes you a couple - your friendship, shared experiences, the situations that get you to have good long conversations. Physical intimacy can be non-sexual too - baths together, back massages (pre-baby they may have led somewhere, but post-baby they usually mean sleep), cuddling. So long as you both work at it, you'll make it work.

[sky_heart]

Originally Posted by searching04

I thank you as well. But, ah, the turmoil: we follow church teachings on sex (we have four kids vis NFP; it works), and my wife and I disagree about following church teachings, and it has impacted our marriage. While I totally agree with you, and my wife and I had non-intercourse sex in between NFP phases (hated condoms and the pill) for many years, that changed. Read about the "radical extreme" in the article I posted, and that is where we are. Sad, hurts, but a reality, made worse by us viewing it differently. But such an extreme will be denied by the majority of posters here, that there is no way NFP and church teachings can cause this. Well, the article was written by a priest.

And so my advice to jonnlaureng is the same as yours - do what you need to preserve your marriage and pray and go to confession and make peace with your conscience and with God, but speaking from painful experience, the radical extreme is not the way to go. All because semen is supposed to land in one spot.

I do not for the life of me believe that God intends for couples to live with this kind of pain and separation, but we are told we are supposed to. Should we strive for intercourse as the ideal, as agape love is the ideal (again, read the article)? Yes. Should marriages suffer and couples not have sex or be sexually intimate at all for not being able to afford more kids or because the man orgasms other than thru intercourse? Not at all, nor do I believe that is what God wants. But it is what we are told.

God bless you and your wonderful family!
That is truly great that NFP has complimented your and your wife's situation! Its so funny because me and my husband agree about nearly all church teachings, yet nearly the point of contention for us, as a couple has always been conception. We want so badly to do the right thing, but its highly complicated given our individual situation. I totally agree with you too, non-intercourse sex is a wonderful way to find intimacy with your partner and to strengthen the bond. The article that you posted is truly beautiful, insightful and, most of all, poignant as the priest himself mentions that should climax occur that it is not a sin. The priest who penned the article brutally and honestly instructs that spouses should be honest with each other- in fact, here is one of my favorite passages:

"....It means that common difficulties of catholic couples are not of such gravity as to require going to confession each time they appear. If the spouses try to preserve the established boundaries, but do not always succeed in it, it is better for them to take Communion regularly, praying for the gift of an even purer love, rather than, being tormented with ever-increasing guilt and another failure, constantly think about the necessity of confessing their sexual sins"

In one word this passage is PERFECT! The priest acknowledges the challenges and difficulties yet he doesn't damn the couple. He doesn't scare them with the realities of their mortality... he takes into mind that the couple should take communion, should pray to God and to not torment. I couldn't agree more. Tormenting leads to the eventual shunning of your spouse, or worse, yourself. It makes you feel imperfect to the point where one can never feel truly clean as the vice of sin cannot be escaped. I don't simply think its as easy as condemning someone literally to hell.

I should mention, in fact, beyond this thread, I hope we can be friends on here and stay in contact Its always great to have a friend- particularly one with lots of insight and this article has truly inspired me to fact-find even more on the subject. I am truly appalled by those on here that are so black and white and by the book about everything. Love, when purely experienced, is hardly by the book. In fact, to some extent, some posters on this thread have boiled down human intimacy and the marriage covenant down to horrible number figures with percentages.... love is rarely so simple that we can all ascribe to one definition and one instruction perfectly without error or without free-thinking as instruction doesn't take into account the totality of challenges faced by a truly in-love married couple.

I totally and utterly agree with what you've said here: "I do not for the life of me believe that God intends for couples to live with this kind of pain and separation, but we are told we are supposed to. Should we strive for intercourse as the ideal, as agape love is the ideal (again, read the article)? Yes. Should marriages suffer and couples not have sex or be sexually intimate at all for not being able to afford more kids or because the man orgasms other than thru intercourse? Not at all, nor do I believe that is what God wants. But it is what we are told." I don't believe God wants us to further separate our relationships, the intensity of love we feel for our spouses---- to experience the pain and separation you've mentioned......I completely agree that we should always strive, at all points, to do what follows the church's teaching-- God's teaching foremost. But I also think we should understand we are human. We cannot be stratified and summed up in numbers or words.... Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for you post... you have given me lots to think about and hopefully some on here can read the article you've posted and educate themselves against judging others for truly embracing their humanity and for following their hearts.

[sky_heart]

In response to all of The Bucket's posts:

I'm not entirely positive if anything you've written here was expressly addressed to me, but, i'd like to respond. I can understand your agitation but this poster that has asked for the help of those of us on this board is genuinely in need. How some are acting on here (including your original posts) are obviously NOT intended to be good-spirited, helpful, or instructive to someone in need. If you aren't to say anything beneficial then why waste your breath? To cause a fight? To make someone feel ignorant? I cannot stand those who try to hurt those genuinely needing help. That is against the church and only serves to push Catholics away or intimidate them into either NOT asking question or INTO being ashamed of themselves and that is wholly intolerable, in my opinion. Your comments are snarky and misdirected as one poster cannot be made responsible for the hundreds of posts i'm sure you've encountered in your time as a member of this board.

The church obviously has a "crystal clear" stance on the contraception. This is undeniable. But, if we are to talk about God, extenuating circumstances, and such, the church does not go into such detail as it cannot predict every possibility of situation we, as Catholics, face.

I definitely see a good majority of your points, and I appreciate your point of view. I must say, as a new Catholic, I fully embrace the church into my life as much as possible. But I also get the point that we cannot be perfect as humans and that it is against God to pretend to be as such. We should aspire to be as close to him as possible but I genuinely have always believed (even before becoming Catholic- I was raised in a Catholic household) that as long as you try to live your life as close to God as possible and do the best you can, even in the face of adversity, that God will genuinely love you and welcome you into his kingdom as he knows, with all your heart, your intent was pure. This might be flawed thinking for some but this is how i've always felt. I don't think it is hard at all to be a good person as long as you always acting purely of heart, God will know where you stand. I simply do not and will never believe that a person who uses condoms, particularly because they have financial problems, will get condemned for an eternity in the same pit as murderers, criminals, and the like. Sure using condoms counts against us as it is against the church, but, if God loves all, and you have a justification, and you pray about it and confess it, surely he will know your truest intent.

I completely see what you mean, but I know in my heart, I have peace. As long as I can be the very best mother, wife, daughter, friend that I can be, as long as I keep the love of God in every action I take in my life, as long as I do the best I can in life and aspire to be better at every turn, I am at peace in my soul and that, to me, is priceless. I will always try to do better but peace is quite easy to find and keep when you do the best you can.

[sky_heart]

Originally Posted by JNdoum

There are strong reasons for not using contraceptives. Half of them are really abortions, because they irritate the walls of the uterus, making fertilized eggs incapable of implanting there, and the other half almost invariably lead to sins against chastity. I'm 15 years old, and I realize that sex cannot be solely for enjoyment. It seems a sort of moot point to simply do it for the sake of doing it. Oftentimes I don't see the point of anyone having sex at all, because a lot of the time it's used to hurt themselves and others. When you're using contraception, it generally means that you aren't doing what you're doing out of love, or for the glory of God. As I see it, if you don't do it for that, what's the point?

As for the OP, I will pray for you. I'm sorry, but age and inexperience prevent me from giving any authoritative or useful advice.

I appreciate your point of view and honest about inexperience JNdoum!
But I do believe it's a bit odd... only because when you are married and in a committed relationship, a condom cannot be a "sin against chastity" as you've called it. I appreciate how deeply rooted you are in your own beliefs, but, sex isn't purely for enjoyment, you are right. I believe your youth might explain your lack of fathoming that when you love someone, and you are honestly committed, there are plenty of ways to be intimate, sex happens to be one of them and, to protect the marriage, as well as the family at large, partners should be able to explore their sexuality openly and freely. We are not animals (per se) and sexuality is rarely as simple as having sex only when you want to procreate although i'm sure with age, experience and knowing the physical intensity of love two individuals can share (when you get to this point in your life) you will find not exploring certain levels of intimacy are simply much easier said than done. I do also believe you saying use of contraception equates to "not doing it out of love or the Glory of God" again, smacks of inexperience and lack of life knowledge. There are a number of reasons a couple would use contraception- health, emotional, mental and physical reasons- none of which have a bit to do with anything you've honestly mentioned. To be honest, the question comes to mind of which is far MORE irresponsible-- to bring a miracle to life-- one you cannot realistically provide for, mentally, emotionally or financially or to use contraception... I believe God would take more fault with the former as opposed to the latter, but again, life experience will show this to you in just time.

[sky_heart]

Originally Posted by LucyLight

Sometimes I can't stand these forums. Their have been some wonderful posts here but some of the posts hit below the belt. The OP is upset and is seeking help. She said she was angry and didn't want to be. Getting anrgy back at her shows a lack of empathy. Berating the OP and pointing out things like you shouldn't of had sex out of marriage is unhelpful and smug. If you can't respond with charity to someone who is upset and asking for help than why are you responding? What is your intention?

I 3000% percent agree with you, LucyLight!
I believe some on here either are in marriages or life situations they are fully not personally satisfied with as to why they would come on here and make the original poster not only feel ashamed, but horrible about the strength and courage it takes to ask a question. This, I thought, was a forum where we are to help fellow Catholics, to give them insight, NOT to damn them to hell (As if this is our right or responsibility as no one can do this but God himself-- and the "holier than thou" card is a pretty ridiculous one to play, especially considering how pride is a sin in itself). This woman is asking for our help- our guidance.. not snarky attitudes, not non-instructive diatribes saying you are breaking God's law or that "it's your own fault" but genuine help. I thought that we are supposed to be Catholic- the lot of us-- where are our virtues? I agree--- if you cannot respond with charity to someone who genuinely needs the help, why respond? what are the true intentions to write things that are rude, cold and just downright mean-spirited? And yet most of these people follow church teaching but cannot give charity, understanding or compassion?! Seriously??