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  #1  
Old Apr 27, '12, 1:57 pm
Jesusismyfriend Jesusismyfriend is offline
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Default How much can you trust psychology?

There are many Christian and non-Christian psychologists out there. I think they have some beliefs that are contrary to Christ's teachings. Like hypnosis, for one. You can tag a Christian name on something, but does that mean it is Christian? There is a group csalled "Christian Wiccans." Are they Christians or are they wiccan? Seems obvious. But psychology is one thing that is considered acceptable to a lot of Christians. Less obvious. Some people get so stuck in it, they think they can diagnose anyone with a mental illness. And some mental illness have such variety. Schizophrenia varies for each person. And I think psychology does stress too much that a certain symptom links a person to an illness.
I guess what I mean is we are humans who cannot understand everything that goes on in the mind of other people. So is becoming too interested in psychology safe? Some psychiatrists believe themselves to be infallible, and is that a good thing? And where does this infalliability or wisdom come from?
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  #2  
Old Apr 27, '12, 3:20 pm
meltzerboy meltzerboy is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesusismyfriend View Post
There are many Christian and non-Christian psychologists out there. I think they have some beliefs that are contrary to Christ's teachings. Like hypnosis, for one. You can tag a Christian name on something, but does that mean it is Christian? There is a group csalled "Christian Wiccans." Are they Christians or are they wiccan? Seems obvious. But psychology is one thing that is considered acceptable to a lot of Christians. Less obvious. Some people get so stuck in it, they think they can diagnose anyone with a mental illness. And some mental illness have such variety. Schizophrenia varies for each person. And I think psychology does stress too much that a certain symptom links a person to an illness.
I guess what I mean is we are humans who cannot understand everything that goes on in the mind of other people. So is becoming too interested in psychology safe? Some psychiatrists believe themselves to be infallible, and is that a good thing? And where does this infalliability or wisdom come from?
Any psychologist worth their salt will be the first to admit there is more not understood about the human mind than what is known. I'm curious whether you have ever studied psychology or taken an introductory psychology course. If you have, you undoubtedly learned that psychology involves much more than the study of people with psychological disorders. Your post talks about abnormal and clinical psychology, while there are many more branches that have nothing to do with mental illness. I can tell you from professional experience that it is safe.
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  #3  
Old Apr 27, '12, 3:51 pm
GEddie GEddie is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Anybody who has a scientific education understands that there is no infallibility in science!

Psychology is a science, not a religion, and not all of it is related to such matters as sexuality or the subconscious.

Our human mind comes from the spiritual soul, but it lives in a bodily head. As such, it can be studied scientifically and theories can be formed and tested about it.

ICXC NIKA
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  #4  
Old Apr 27, '12, 4:23 pm
James224 James224 is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesusismyfriend View Post
There are many Christian and non-Christian psychologists out there. I think they have some beliefs that are contrary to Christ's teachings. Like hypnosis, for one. You can tag a Christian name on something, but does that mean it is Christian? There is a group csalled "Christian Wiccans." Are they Christians or are they wiccan? Seems obvious. But psychology is one thing that is considered acceptable to a lot of Christians. Less obvious. Some people get so stuck in it, they think they can diagnose anyone with a mental illness. And some mental illness have such variety. Schizophrenia varies for each person. And I think psychology does stress too much that a certain symptom links a person to an illness.
I guess what I mean is we are humans who cannot understand everything that goes on in the mind of other people. So is becoming too interested in psychology safe? Some psychiatrists believe themselves to be infallible, and is that a good thing? And where does this infalliability or wisdom come from?
I guess there is a place for some of it but where it is dangerous is when it is put above the Faith or is contrary to the Faith. A lot a psychology today is really a pseudo-science and comes out of politics and the atheistic worldview. Carl Jung was very popular in Catholic circles in the 1900's.There is a book by Fr Mitch Pacwa entitled "Catholic and the New Age" where he devotes a chapter to Jung. If I studied psychology, I would study with a critical eye. What you really need is to be immersed in the Catholic Faith which would include Thomism.
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  #5  
Old Apr 27, '12, 4:30 pm
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Darran Darran is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Hopefully not a lot! Our Bishop doesn't put too much weight on the psychological tests of our seminarians (unless there is a problem, ofc). I was more than a bit skeptical of the "draw a house" test though, before it pretty much sussed me down to a T.
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  #6  
Old Apr 27, '12, 5:03 pm
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Jerusha Jerusha is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

There are psychologists and psychiatrists of all flavors. Make sure you find one who is suitable to you, and your belief system, but smart and strong enough to call you on your BS.
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  #7  
Old Apr 27, '12, 7:57 pm
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InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

My primary issue with psychology is that many of the basic issues we face day to day:
anxiety
irrational fear
sleeplessness
confusion
helplessness
etc.

can be overcome through prayer.

For some reason, psychologists are unable or unwilling to go there.
Instead, Psychologists prefer to go the "controlled" route of experimenting with medication cocktails.

Please don't get me wrong, I know many who have been helped enormously through both therapy and medicine; but, it seems that medicine is used too often when it is not necessary.
__________________
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
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  #8  
Old Apr 27, '12, 9:46 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesusismyfriend View Post
There are many Christian and non-Christian psychologists out there. I think they have some beliefs that are contrary to Christ's teachings. Like hypnosis, for one. You can tag a Christian name on something, but does that mean it is Christian? There is a group csalled "Christian Wiccans." Are they Christians or are they wiccan? Seems obvious. But psychology is one thing that is considered acceptable to a lot of Christians. Less obvious. Some people get so stuck in it, they think they can diagnose anyone with a mental illness. And some mental illness have such variety. Schizophrenia varies for each person. And I think psychology does stress too much that a certain symptom links a person to an illness.
I guess what I mean is we are humans who cannot understand everything that goes on in the mind of other people. So is becoming too interested in psychology safe? Some psychiatrists believe themselves to be infallible, and is that a good thing? And where does this infalliability or wisdom come from?
Friend,

I am a trained hypnotherapist. Hypnosis is nothing more that guided visualization. Do you dream? Do you relax? Do you recall the days driving when you missed your offramp because your mind was elsewhere? Do you recall having to ask someone to repeat something because your mind was elsewhere? You were under hypnosis. All hypnosis is self hypnosis. Whenever you hear the word imagine it is engaging your uncoscious mind and that is all it is.

In my opinion Psychologist know little of solving problems. They learn about abnormal psychology as they learn to give you advice. You would do better to learn about General Semantics, NLP and Neurosemantics....that will teach you how the mind functions normally and how to solve problems.

Here is a starter. Your brain works a certain way. Never ask yourself why. For instance...why did I do that or why can't I understand that or this....the mind works best when asked what & how. For instance...

What is the problem. How do I solve it.

example. I eat too much and can't stop...Why do I eat so much...this will drive you crazy and you will never get an answer.

What is the problem. I eat too much. How do I fix that problem. You may not get the answer right away however if you pose a question to your brain in that way you will get an answer.
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  #9  
Old Apr 27, '12, 9:51 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiritCarol View Post
My primary issue with psychology is that many of the basic issues we face day to day:
anxiety
irrational fear
sleeplessness
confusion
helplessness
etc.

can be overcome through prayer.

For some reason, psychologists are unable or unwilling to go there.
Instead, Psychologists prefer to go the "controlled" route of experimenting with medication cocktails.

Please don't get me wrong, I know many who have been helped enormously through both therapy and medicine; but, it seems that medicine is used too often when it is not necessary.
Carol,

Hypnotherapy addresses all of these issues very well...you may think of prayer as a form of hypnotherapy..
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  #10  
Old Apr 27, '12, 10:22 pm
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InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
Carol,

Hypnotherapy addresses all of these issues very well...you may think of prayer as a form of hypnotherapy..
Well, since you bring it up, here's my very own personal problem with hypnosis and, by extension, most of society these days.

Our enlightened Western culture has forgotten "the invisible" part of the creed.

We think (include myself of 7 years ago in this estimation) that all inspiration comes from us is filtered by us and is emitted by us.

Some of the more "religious" bring a god into the equation, but there is always some understood safety mechanism. A belief that our brains do not allow us to do that which we do not want to do.

Hypnotism has been "proven" to be "completely safe" in this way, I have been told time and again.

Here's the rub.

What if most of the human experience over time and throughout the world isn't wrong?
What if there are "powers and principalities" that not only exist, but are bent on our destruction?

When we empty ourselves - when we let go of control without inviting God in specifically as we do do in prayer; what else can find its way in?

I'm not offended if you pooh-pooh this.
If I had not seen what I have, I would be the first to do so.

If you do see... some logic in this, please do just consider filling the voids in your life with God.

The rest really does fall into place.

Peace and Blessings.
__________________
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
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  #11  
Old Apr 27, '12, 10:25 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiritCarol View Post
Well, since you bring it up, here's my very own personal problem with hypnosis and, by extension, most of society these days.

Our enlightened Western culture has forgotten "the invisible" part of the creed.

We think (include myself of 7 years ago in this estimation) that all inspiration comes from us is filtered by us and is emitted by us.

Some of the more "religious" bring a god into the equation, but there is always some understood safety mechanism. A belief that our brains do not allow us to do that which we do not want to do.

Hypnotism has been "proven" to be "completely safe" in this way, I have been told time and again.

Here's the rub.

What if most of the human experience over time and throughout the world isn't wrong?
What if there are "powers and principalities" that not only exist, but are bent on our destruction?

When we empty ourselves - when we let go of control without inviting God in specifically as we do do in prayer; what else can find its way in?

I'm not offended if you pooh-pooh this.
If I had not seen what I have, I would be the first to do so.

If you do see... some logic in this, please do just consider filling the voids in your life with God.

The rest really does fall into place.

Peace and Blessings.
Carol,

Any hypnotherapist will tell you that there is no way to cause you to do something that you do not want to do and in hypnotherapy you are reminded that you are in control and you have the ability to do what it is you choose to do...explain your concern..
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  #12  
Old Apr 27, '12, 11:48 pm
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InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
Carol,

Any hypnotherapist will tell you that there is no way to cause you to do something that you do not want to do and in hypnotherapy you are reminded that you are in control and you have the ability to do what it is you choose to do...explain your concern..
As I said also above... I've heard that explanation ad nausium.

Sorry, CopticChristian, it is almost impossible to explain because reality itself is completely different depending on one's perspective.
There isn't any middle ground.
Either one's paradigm allows for interaction with the preternatural, or it does not.

I can see how as a professional you have witnessed countless people helped through your service. That is certainly commendable.

Hopefully both a subjective explanation and a more objective explanation will complete the picture for you.

Subjectively
I'll be straight with you. This place where I am right now is inexplicably bad. I'm not kidding, I'm not alone in my estimation; and I have tons of empirical evidence. Yes, an exorcist is involved.

Now, I neither require nor expect your belief (I might think you a fool if you did just take me at my word); all that is required is your comprehension that that is my perspective.

We (my family and others in the community and elsewhere) are constantly praying to keep some very bad stuff at bay. God protects us, don't get me wrong, but we have learned to never lower our guard.

Hypnosis lowers one's guard. Simple as that. Sort of like St. Pio would not allow anesthesia to be used on him for surgery.

Thank you for taking a moment to consider this alternate perspective.
Hopefully this is clearer to you.

A little more Objectively
Surprisingly Wikipedia has this to say regarding hypnotherapy:
A person who is hypnotized displays certain unusual characteristics and propensities, compared with a non-hypnotized subject, most notably hyper-suggestibility, which some authorities have considered a sine qua non of hypnosis, this is why it is very dangerous and can be used to inject anything into somebody's mind.
Clark L. Hull, probably the first major empirical researcher in the field, wrote

If a subject after submitting to the hypnotic procedure shows no genuine increase in susceptibility to any suggestions whatever, there seems no point in calling him hypnotised...
So, regardless of your comprehension or belief in my perspective, doesn't it strike you as being a conflict of interest when hypnotherapists assure us that hypnotherapy is safe?

How can one truly judge whether a person would have done a thing or not?

Prayer itself is very transformative. That is one of its main purposes. Hypnotherapy is like prayer in that way, it is supposed to transform. With one, God is the goal; with the other what? What is transforming us with hypnotherapy? The therapist? Us?

Ultimately, I can only trust God.
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Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
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  #13  
Old Apr 27, '12, 11:56 pm
CopticChristian CopticChristian is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiritCarol View Post
As I said also above... I've heard that explanation ad nausium.

Sorry, CopticChristian, it is almost impossible to explain because reality itself is completely different depending on one's perspective.
There isn't any middle ground.
Either one's paradigm allows for interaction with the preternatural, or it does not.

I can see how as a professional you have witnessed countless people helped through your service. That is certainly commendable.

Hopefully both a subjective explanation and a more objective explanation will complete the picture for you.

Subjectively
I'll be straight with you. This place where I am right now is inexplicably bad. I'm not kidding, I'm not alone in my estimation; and I have tons of empirical evidence. Yes, an exorcist is involved.

Now, I neither require nor expect your belief (I might think you a fool if you did just take me at my word); all that is required is your comprehension that that is my perspective.

We (my family and others in the community and elsewhere) are constantly praying to keep some very bad stuff at bay. God protects us, don't get me wrong, but we have learned to never lower our guard.

Hypnosis lowers one's guard. Simple as that. Sort of like St. Pio would not allow anesthesia to be used on him for surgery.

Thank you for taking a moment to consider this alternate perspective.
Hopefully this is clearer to you.

A little more Objectively
Surprisingly Wikipedia has this to say regarding hypnotherapy:
A person who is hypnotized displays certain unusual characteristics and propensities, compared with a non-hypnotized subject, most notably hyper-suggestibility, which some authorities have considered a sine qua non of hypnosis, this is why it is very dangerous and can be used to inject anything into somebody's mind.
Clark L. Hull, probably the first major empirical researcher in the field, wrote

If a subject after submitting to the hypnotic procedure shows no genuine increase in susceptibility to any suggestions whatever, there seems no point in calling him hypnotised...
So, regardless of your comprehension or belief in my perspective, doesn't it strike you as being a conflict of interest when hypnotherapists assure us that hypnotherapy is safe?

How can one truly judge whether a person would have done a thing or not?

Prayer itself is very transformative. That is one of its main purposes. Hypnotherapy is like prayer in that way, it is supposed to transform. With one, God is the goal; with the other what? What is transforming us with hypnotherapy? The therapist? Us?

Ultimately, I can only trust God.
Carol,

I actually read books and learned about hypnosis to rid the body of evil spirits. "The unquiet dead" is a good book about that by Edith Fiore..another book "Many lives, many masters"..yes I read these books...

Richard Sutphen makes it his practice to rid bodies of attached spirits. I heard his wife and he give a talk about what they do..

http://www.richardsutphen.com/

Do I believe it. I formed the opinion that it does not matter what I believe here it is what the person seeking aid believes...

So while you may believe that hypnosis is a way to render yourself weak..reading on this material you will see that it is a means of strengthening yourself against these things...and coming to terms with ridding these demons...it is not as you say...
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  #14  
Old Apr 28, '12, 12:30 am
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InspiritCarol InspiritCarol is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopticChristian View Post
Carol,

I actually read books and learned about hypnosis to rid the body of evil spirits. "The unquiet dead" is a good book about that by Edith Fiore..another book "Many lives, many masters"..yes I read these books...

Richard Sutphen makes it his practice to rid bodies of attached spirits. I heard his wife and he give a talk about what they do..

http://www.richardsutphen.com/

Do I believe it. I formed the opinion that it does not matter what I believe here it is what the person seeking aid believes...

So while you may believe that hypnosis is a way to render yourself weak..reading on this material you will see that it is a means of strengthening yourself against these things...and coming to terms with ridding these demons...it is not as you say...
From your link:
Through direct communication with spirit guides, and often deceased loved ones, she is able to advise on a unique level.
"Spirit guides" are demons.
Trying to communicate with the deceased is divination and even if you don't think that is forbidden (it is); don't you see how it's a complete rejection of God and Church? (intentional capitalization)

Lorenzo Scupoli (a Theatine Priest in the 16th century) had this to say:
Distrust of yourself is so important in the spiritual combat that, without it, you may be assured that you will neither gain the desired victory, nor be able to overcome even the weakest of your passions. You must be firmly convinced in your mind that this is the case, for, through our natural conception, we are too prone to make a false estimate of ourselves. Although we are absolutely nothing, we persuade ourselves that we are something and presume without the slightest foundation on our own strength.
This echos what St. Paul says in Romans 7 and elsewhere.

Your approach relies on self.
Prayer relies on God.

I think you and I are reading different books.

Thanks for sharing. You have broadened my understanding, but I'm afraid you have made me far more leery.

Sorry ...
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Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux!
(May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!)
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  #15  
Old Apr 28, '12, 6:01 am
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Jerusha Jerusha is offline
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Default Re: How much can you trust psychology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiritCarol View Post
My primary issue with psychology is that many of the basic issues we face day to day:
anxiety
irrational fear
sleeplessness
confusion
helplessness
etc.

can be overcome through prayer.

For some reason, psychologists are unable or unwilling to go there.
Instead, Psychologists prefer to go the "controlled" route of experimenting with medication cocktails.

Please don't get me wrong, I know many who have been helped enormously through both therapy and medicine; but, it seems that medicine is used too often when it is not necessary.
And prayer can give us the inspiration to do something about the sociological issues which contribute to our discomfort. Excess medication will just make us comfortable with the status quo. Adequate medication will reduce the discomfort, especially anxiety, enough for us to take action.
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