Transgendered people?

[Julia Mae]

[quote=GEddie;9404414]

Originally Posted by WillP

Two-headed persons, if they exist (have never heard an instance of one beyond hearsay)

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

There were a set of sisters sharing a body on 60 minutes a few years ago. I think all their episodes are online, maybe you can find it. I saw it, it's not hearsay.

[InSearchofGrace]

Originally Posted by Viviphilia

The topic of this thread is how to address a trans woman.

When a person refers to a trans woman as a man, it is called misgendering. Normally, it is on accident and benign. The problem is when it is deliberate, as it was on that thread. The deliberate misgendering which was going on in that thread was certainly hateful.

By the way, I'll check that thread later to see if you ever apologized for the demonstrably false accusations you made against me. I hope to see you there.

So, you take the liberty to peddle misinformation about a related thread and when you are taken to task on it you switch to the topic of the OP. Nice!

You probably know by now your false 'false accusation' story has been addressed sufficiently and as in this one, your method of debate leaves much to be desired.

You're all over the forum, Viv. But your posts are traceable.

As for the charge of deliberate hateful misgendering in that other thread, you chose to engage someone (not me) who happens to be a doctor (whom you disbelieved as not being one, and regarded as a quack in another instance). Who was being hateful there? Further, you participated in a debate on transgenderism full steam on which you could not possibly have objectivity as you have an open transgender agenda. You alluded as much to knowing that a good number of doctors as well as regular folks are against transitioning and sex reassignment surgery. In fact, the Church also has a clear position against SRS but understands situations when surgery may be involved for strictly therapeutic reasons or corrective purposes, such as reconstruction to free a block that hampers urination, for example. But never to approve of mutilation of healthy organs as in the process of changing one's sex.

I did not intend to go this far but you did make provocative statements that are not true. I apologize to the followers of thread for this side discussion.
,

[Viviphilia]

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

I think they are looking into mosaicism as possible culprit in some cases.

Yes, it appears there are a several types and causes of gender variance. Mosaicism is believed to be an intersex variety which can lead to transsexuality.

http://www.transchristians.org/inter...sex-conditions

[exnihilo]

Originally Posted by Viviphilia

Yes, it appears there are a several types and causes of gender variance. Mosaicism is believed to be an intersex variety which can lead to transsexuality.

What seems strange about this idea is that if gender is something real then it must be a metaphysical reality. I guess a person could say their brain is literally a certain gendered brain. But then of course feminism would be finished. If there is a woman's brain then sex discrimination would be very justified. So those promoting gender, so long as they are encumbered by logic, will have to say there is a metaphysical mind. That would seem to open up all sorts of problems for them as well since that allows for Natural Law and the revealed religion of Christianity to be true.

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by exnihilo

What seems strange about this idea is that if gender is something real then it must be a metaphysical reality. I guess a person could say their brain is literally a certain gendered brain. But then of course feminism would be finished. If there is a woman's brain then sex discrimination would be very justified. So those promoting gender, so long as they are encumbered by logic, will have to say there is a metaphysical mind. That would seem to open up all sorts of problems for them as well since that allows for Natural Law and the revealed religion of Christianity to be true.

And, of course, we know that one's nervous system is fine-tuned by gender effects, just like the muscle tone, body build, and voice.

The senses are part of our CNS, and it is well known that women have stronger noses than men, and can perceive smells than men cannot. Likewise, there are women who can see four primary colors rather than the standard three in human sight ( the genetic change allowing this occurs only in females). Possibly this accounts in part for the stereotypical female sensitivity to smells and colors?

Perceiving is part of what the brain does, so there are brain differences between M and F.

The existence of a "metaphysical mind" does not at all negate the need for a (gendered) brain to express it.

ICXC NIKA

[Dakota Roberts]

Originally Posted by GEddie

And, of course, we know that one's nervous system is fine-tuned by gender effects, just like the muscle tone, body build, and voice.

The senses are part of our CNS, and it is well known that women have stronger noses than men, and can perceive smells than men cannot. Likewise, there are women who can see four primary colors rather than the standard three in human sight ( the genetic change allowing this occurs only in females). Possibly this accounts in part for the stereotypical female sensitivity to smells and colors?

Perceiving is part of what the brain does, so there are brain differences between M and F.

The existence of a "metaphysical mind" does not at all negate the need for a (gendered) brain to express it.

ICXC NIKA

Women are also more people oriented whereas males are more object oriented. In a group women are more egalitarian whereas men are more competitive. Women are prone to rationalizing things whereas men are prone to doggedly following the rules.

Both sides have strengths and weaknesses and overall they are equal

[Viviphilia]

Originally Posted by exnihilo

I guess a person could say their brain is literally a certain gendered brain. But then of course feminism would be finished. If there is a woman's brain then sex discrimination would be very justified. So those promoting gender, so long as they are encumbered by logic, will have to say there is a metaphysical mind.

There is biological evidence for brain differences between genders.

The goal of feminism is not to turn women into men, but rather to give women the freedom to move about in society without man-made barriers.

I don't know what you mean by "metaphysical mind."

[SwizzleStick]

Originally Posted by Viviphilia

Haha, there happens to be just such a thread!

Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?

Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.

Disagreeing with someone is not hatred.

[SwizzleStick]

Originally Posted by InSearchofGrace

This is untrue and a mischaracterization of the discussion with the CAF member(s) with whom you engaged in that thread. There has not been hatred or injustice expressed.,

I agree. I saw no hatred.

[SwizzleStick]

Originally Posted by GEddie

If you admit that it is a departure from the norm, and not as is claimed, "a wrong body," then we have nothing to disagree about.

I don't know or much care what process leads to those mentations; I do maintain that God does not give "someone the wrong body". That is impossible. The soul is formed in and for that body.

Two-headed persons, if they exist (have never heard an instance of one beyond hearsay), are the result of a disorder of development. But unlike the anomalies being considered in the thread, no-one would consider "two-headism" (or the scientific term) a normal variation.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA

Not to derail the thread, but two-headed people do exist. In fact, a baby (twins?) with that birth issue was recently born in Brazil. Also, google Abigail and Brittany Hensel, twin girls with one body. I saw a couple of documentaries about those twins.

Brazilian baby 'born healthy with two heads... and both are suckling mother's breasts'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oel-Jesus.html

Now, back to the thread.

[exnihilo]

Originally Posted by Viviphilia

There is biological evidence for brain differences between genders.

The goal of feminism is not to turn women into men, but rather to give women the freedom to move about in society without man-made barriers.

I don't know what you mean by "metaphysical mind."

Feminism is based on the assertion that men and women are equal. If not only the body but also the brain is different then feminism is pretty silly. It would be based on an absurd claim refuted by all scientific evidence.

By 'metaphysical mind' I really mean 'a mind, which is necessarily metaphysical'. I'm drawing the distinction between brain and mind. Brain is the physical organ in which thinking occurs. The mind is that which really does the thinking and it is not physical. It is metaphysical.

Originally Posted by GEddie

The existence of a "metaphysical mind" does not at all negate the need for a (gendered) brain to express it.

I would substitute sexed for gendered. But I agree we need a brain, in this world, to express the thoughts of our mind and it would seem that this brain would be sexed like the rest of our bodies.

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by Viviphilia

Haha, there happens to be just such a thread!

Are transgendered people allowed to get married or be in relationships?

Be warned, there is a huge amount of hatred being expressed there.

No such "huge amount of hatred" would ever be allowed to continue on this forum.

The truth is not hatred.

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by exnihilo

Feminism is based on the assertion that men and women are equal. If not only the body but also the brain is different then feminism is pretty silly. It would be based on an absurd claim refuted by all scientific evidence.

By 'metaphysical mind' I really mean 'a mind, which is necessarily metaphysical'. I'm drawing the distinction between brain and mind. Brain is the physical organ in which thinking occurs. The mind is that which really does the thinking and it is not physical. It is metaphysical.



I would substitute sexed for gendered. But I agree we need a brain, in this world, to express the thoughts of our mind and it would seem that this brain would be sexed like the rest of our bodies.

I'd day that every in eternity we will need the equivalent of our human head; we need something to see and smell from, and to hold our memories in.

And I'd stock with "gendered". Sexed implies "motivated by sexual desire or behavior", as when we say "oversexed" or "strongly sexed", which was not what I meant.

ICXC NIKA

[exnihilo]

Originally Posted by GEddie

I'd day that every in eternity we will need the equivalent of our human head; we need something to see and smell from, and to hold our memories in.

God can do those things without a body. Of course we will get a resurrected body. The mind holds our memories.

Originally Posted by GEddie

And I'd stock with "gendered". Sexed implies "motivated by sexual desire or behavior", as when we say "oversexed" or "strongly sexed", which was not what I meant.

Gender used to refer to grammar. I agree those ideas can come to mind when you hear the word sexed. But sexed can mean to a farmer that a chick has had its sex determined. I stick with the old meanings of words because I prefer the clarity of thought we once had.

[John Paul Jones]

Originally Posted by GEddie

The Church considers that to be a disorder.
However, there is nothing to be gained by sticking this in somebody's face, If they have already "changed." (the gender does not really change, it's in the DNA). IMNAAHO, we should use the name they have chosen and respect them in their new persona; they are going through enough.

ICXC NIKA

A "persona" is a mask that one can take off when he is done. Gender reassignment isn't a removable mask.

Originally Posted by KerryA02

Why do you think you get to make that decision for anyone else?

It is unrealistic to try and reduce life to DNA. Sometimes mistakes are made during the development of Human bodies. It seems plausible that a woman could accidentally have been born with a penis and testosterone when she should have been born with a vagina and estrogen. Who are you to say otherwise? Why would you deny that to a woman who sincerely believes it is true?

And yet where would life be without DNA?