LDS worship - Page 4

Stephen168 · #46 May 9, '12, 3:23 pm

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Originally Posted by Stephen168

I just read on a Judaish website that the rituals preformed in “The Temple” were sacrifices and most of the sacrifices were eaten. Are any Mormon Temple rituals sacrifices?

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Originally Posted by RebeccaJ

Joseph Smith taught in Oct. 1840 that animal sacrifices in the Mormon temple would be practiced. Brigham Young taught the same in Salt Lake. There are a few people who wrote of performing animal sacrifices in the SLC temple, in a clandestine fashion, but it is not a practice that took hold.

Mormons don't perform any ritual sacrifices, other than as has been mentioned, they performed a symbolic one as part of oathes. Making motions of slitting their own throat and slicing open their own torso. These symbols and actions were removed from the Mormon temple ceremony in 1991.

So Mormon Temple rituals have nothing to do with Jewish Temple rituals?

TexanKnight · #47 May 9, '12, 3:32 pm

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Originally Posted by Stephen168

So Mormon Temple rituals have nothing to do with Jewish Temple rituals?

the only thing they really have in common is the word "temple"

RebeccaJ · #48 May 9, '12, 3:38 pm

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Originally Posted by TexanKnight

the only thing they really have in common is the word "temple"

Mormons view their temple rituals as necessary for their salvation.

Stephen168 · #49 May 9, '12, 3:45 pm

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Originally Posted by RebeccaJ

Mormons view their temple rituals as necessary for their salvation.

So the purpose of the rituals are the same, but the actual rituals are not.

HonoraDominum · #50 May 9, '12, 6:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen168

So the purpose of the rituals are the same, but the actual rituals are not.

Not quite. The purpose of Jewish temple ceremonies was to offer sacrifice to God. The purpose of Mormon temple ceremonies is to swear oaths of allegiance to the LDS church, and to learn the "signs and symbols" needed for entrance into heaven. The allegience is in a vow of consecration, not to Christ but to the "building up of the Kingdom of God" (read: building up of the LDS church). ("You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.")

It's not the blessings a person gets in the temple that gets one into heaven, it's those all important handshakes and code phrases that one learns that gives us the "tokens" to slip through the veil and into heaven. Without these handshakes and code words, a person cannot get into heaven. Of course, with a quick Google search, anyone can find the entire verbiage of the ceremony, and learn the phrases. There's even a video from Big Love with the end part of the ceremony, where the woman gets pulled through the veil, with language that is actually used in the temple. But Joseph Smith apparently did not prophesy about the Internet when he wrote the ceremonies and made people vow to keep them secret.

batman1973 · #51 May 9, '12, 6:43 pm

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Originally Posted by CHRISTINE77

Kind of sounds like prison!

Naw, at least in prison they can watch tv, or otherwise entertain themselves. Mormon church services are boring. There's no spirit there. It's a void.

LivingWaters7 · #52 May 10, '12, 7:38 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonoraDominum

These ceremonies which you hold so dear have been based on a book that has been positively proven to be based on a book which was not translated, but created in the mind of Joseph Smith under false pretenses. And Joseph didn't just steal from Masons As a Catholic catechumen, I had a huge shock when I went through the Rite of Acceptance as a Catholic:

Those of us who went through the Mormon Temple ceremonies before 2000 will feel an eerie deja vu to this ceremony and one that happens in the Temple. To refresh your memory - "... your ears, that you may hear the word of the Lord; your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error ... your shoulders, that they may bear the burdens that shall be placed thereon; ... your arms and hands, that they may be strong and wield the sword of justice in defense of truth and virtue ... your legs and feet, that you might run and not be weary, and walk and not faint." Not 100% the same, but with the symbolism of the blessing each part of the body separately with a specific blessing, it rattled me to the bones and gave me further testimony of the Mormon religion and temple rite being a complete and total lie.

I highly doubt that Joseph Smith took anything from the Catholic Rite of Acceptance, because first one would have to demonstrate that this part of RCIA was being practiced in the 1800s, that an apparently optional part of the rite (the "signing of the senses") was being practiced then, as well as that Joseph Smith had access to/knowledge of this rite. What is clear however is that washing and anointing rites have been a part of Judeo-Christian ritual since ancient times, and Latter-day Saints are not surprised when we see striking parallels to our practices anciently. Washing and Anointing is one of the most beautiful parts of temple worship for me, and I love hearing the blessings pronounced during it. And I love reading this blog that talks about washings and anointings in the restored Church of Jesus Christ as well as anciently: Washings and Anointings.

LivingWaters7 · #53 May 10, '12, 7:38 am

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Originally Posted by tarboy

TExan
I'm suprised at your comments.

When I want to reference official Catholic postions and doctrine, I link to official sources like the catechism or the Catholic Encyclopedia here. I don't refer to anti-catholic sites like CARM to represent proper doctrine.

Why should mormons or any other religous group be any different? Why shouldn't they refer to official sources to explain their official teachings?

Thank you. I am not interested in "proving" Latter-day Saint beliefs to those that do not believe in the Faith, nor am I interested in converting people here. The purpose of posting links to Latter-day Saint articles is to show how believing Latter-day Saints understand and defend certain issues. Everyone is welcome to agree or disagree. This is no different than what I see many Catholics doing throughout this forum, including in the Non-Catholic Religions section, posting links to Catholic websites to expound on Catholic understandings of certain issues, including links to articles on this very website. There is nothing wrong with using those "biased" (not my word) websites to help people understand the Catholic perspective(s) and defense on certain issues, and there should not be an issue of a Latter-day Saint referencing the LDS equivalent of such resources to offer Latter-day Saint perspective(s) and defense on certain issues.

LivingWaters7 · #54 May 10, '12, 7:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HonoraDominum

Not quite. The purpose of Jewish temple ceremonies was to offer sacrifice to God. The purpose of Mormon temple ceremonies is to swear oaths of allegiance to the LDS church, and to learn the "signs and symbols" needed for entrance into heaven. The allegience is in a vow of consecration, not to Christ but to the "building up of the Kingdom of God" (read: building up of the LDS church). ("You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.")

It's not the blessings a person gets in the temple that gets one into heaven, it's those all important handshakes and code phrases that one learns that gives us the "tokens" to slip through the veil and into heaven. Without these handshakes and code words, a person cannot get into heaven. Of course, with a quick Google search, anyone can find the entire verbiage of the ceremony, and learn the phrases. There's even a video from Big Love with the end part of the ceremony, where the woman gets pulled through the veil, with language that is actually used in the temple. But Joseph Smith apparently did not prophesy about the Internet when he wrote the ceremonies and made people vow to keep them secret.

The purpose of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to receive blessings from God in this life and the next, to unite families together for eternity, to symbolically (and literally) enter into the presence of God, and to offer various sacred ordinances to the deceased. In the Endowment ordinance, as I have already mentioned, the Plan of Salvation is presented, and one enters into various covenants with God, including obeying the law of sacrifice (yes, the principle of sacrifice is important in the temple and in Latter-day Saint theology), obeying Christ's Gospel, and doing our part to build the Lord's Kingdom. The blessings received in the temple most certainly are a part of how one enters the Celestial Kingdom.

TexanKnight · #55 May 10, '12, 7:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingWaters7

I highly doubt that Joseph Smith took anything from the Catholic Rite of Acceptance, because first one would have to demonstrate that this part of RCIA was being practiced in the 1800s, that an apparently optional part of the rite (the "signing of the senses") was being practiced then, as well as that Joseph Smith had access to/knowledge of this rite. What is clear however is that washing and anointing rites have been a part of Judeo-Christian ritual since ancient times, and Latter-day Saints are not surprised when we see striking parallels to our practices anciently. Washing and Anointing is one of the most beautiful parts of temple worship for me, and I love hearing the blessings pronounced during it. And I love reading this blog that talks about washings and anointings in the restored Church of Jesus Christ as well as anciently: Washings and Anointings.

You keep talking about striking parallels, but you never really ever mention any. Did the Jews make promises to kill each other as Mormons did pre-1990?

TexanKnight · #56 May 10, '12, 7:59 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingWaters7

Thank you. I am not interested in "proving" Latter-day Saint beliefs to those that do not believe in the Faith, nor am I interested in converting people here. The purpose of posting links to Latter-day Saint articles is to show how believing Latter-day Saints understand and defend certain issues. Everyone is welcome to agree or disagree. This is no different than what I see many Catholics doing throughout this forum, including in the Non-Catholic Religions section, posting links to Catholic websites to expound on Catholic understandings of certain issues, including links to articles on this very website. There is nothing wrong with using those "biased" (not my word) websites to help people understand the Catholic perspective(s) and defense on certain issues, and there should not be an issue of a Latter-day Saint referencing the LDS equivalent of such resources to offer Latter-day Saint perspective(s) and defense on certain issues.

Actually, you ARE trying to prove your points. You are trying, to use an example, to prove coke is better than Pepsi by using coke websites.

And THAT is your biggest problem.

Whether it is science, archaeology, Egyptology, Jewish similarities, etc. It does not matter WHATEVER the LDS position, NO non-LDS experts support a single one of them

TexanKnight · #57 May 10, '12, 8:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingWaters7

The purpose of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to receive blessings from God in this life and the next, to unite families together for eternity, to symbolically (and literally) enter into the presence of God, and to offer various sacred ordinances to the deceased.

Not true. In fact, it did just the opposite. My parents and family were not allowed to attend my wedding (sealing) in the temple because they were not LDS. How, exactly, is that uniting families?

In the Endowment ordinance, as I have already mentioned, the Plan of Salvation is presented, and one enters into various covenants with God, including obeying the law of sacrifice (yes, the principle of sacrifice is important in the temple and in Latter-day Saint theology), obeying Christ's Gospel, and doing our part to build the Lord's Kingdom. The blessings received in the temple most certainly are a part of how one enters the Celestial Kingdom.

Plan of Salvation? The one where a Catholic Priest is shown to be an agent of Satan?

LW, I pray daily for you and your family. I hope your soul will be strong enough to bring you out of the false church with its horribly wrong temple ceremonies. You are in my prayers

RebeccaJ · #58 May 10, '12, 8:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingWaters7

I highly doubt that Joseph Smith took anything from the Catholic Rite of Acceptance, because first one would have to demonstrate that this part of RCIA was being practiced in the 1800s, that an apparently optional part of the rite (the "signing of the senses") was being practiced then, as well as that Joseph Smith had access to/knowledge of this rite. What is clear however is that washing and anointing rites have been a part of Judeo-Christian ritual since ancient times, and Latter-day Saints are not surprised when we see striking parallels to our practices anciently. Washing and Anointing is one of the most beautiful parts of temple worship for me, and I love hearing the blessings pronounced during it. And I love reading this blog that talks about washings and anointings in the restored Church of Jesus Christ as well as anciently: Washings and Anointings.

Look to the history of the Masonic rites, which were specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation.

Masons made a claim that their rites came straight from Solomon, which, has been proven to be a false claim.

Joseph Smith was initiated into the Masons, and just a few weeks later, took the exact rite, word for word, and claimed it was given to him by God to be used in the Mormon temple. Brighamite Mormons have since changed their temple rite, several times.

It was all just a ruse, from beginning to end.

LivingWaters7 · #59 May 10, '12, 9:50 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaJ

Look to the history of the Masonic rites, which were specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation.

I would be interested in sources that document that Freemasonry degree ceremonies were "specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation".

Quote:

Masons made a claim that their rites came straight from Solomon, which, has been proven to be a false claim.

Right, this is quite common knowledge.

Quote:

Joseph Smith was initiated into the Masons, and just a few weeks later, took the exact rite, word for word, and claimed it was given to him by God to be used in the Mormon temple. Brighamite Mormons have since changed their temple rite, several times.

It was all just a ruse, from beginning to end.

I have read multiple books and articles on the topic, by Latter-day Saints (including some that are also Freemasons) and critics (including the popular "Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Temple Worship"). I am particularly fond of this review of that work, which briefly demonstrates the evolution of temple worship in the Church of Jesus Christ, including Freemasonry's relationship to a portion of it. What actually occurred is far more nuanced than the above.

TexanKnight · #60 May 10, '12, 2:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingWaters7

I would be interested in sources that document that Freemasonry degree ceremonies were "specifically designed to be a heretical mock of the Roman Catholic Mass, including our rites of initiation".

I find this request odd after I have asked several times for you to show how the LDS temple ceremonies resemble Jewish and early Christian ceremonies. My Jewish friends deny the claim.

Right, this is quite common knowledge.

I have read multiple books and articles on the topic, by Latter-day Saints (including some that are also Freemasons) and critics (including the popular "Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Temple Worship"). I am particularly fond of this review of that work, which briefly demonstrates the evolution of temple worship in the Church of Jesus Christ, including Freemasonry's relationship to a portion of it. What actually occurred is far more nuanced than the above.

Again, if you go to LDS books to look for answers, you will get LDS answers. That just means you have no real desire for the truth.