Intelligent life in outer space?

itullian · #1 Apr 29, '12, 9:57 pm

At this point in time, what do you think?

ivory · #2 Apr 29, '12, 11:14 pm

Given the scale of the cosmos, it's entirely plausible that in some galaxy, somewhere in the universe, there is another advanced civilization asking the same question. The thing is though, we simply do not know right now. All we can do is speculate. If you're wondering, Catholicism does not exclude the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life. If I recall correctly, a Vatican astronomer quipped that he would look forward to evangelizing to members of an alien race.

**tonyrey** · #3 Apr 30, '12, 12:26 am

1. There is no guarantee at all that there are other forms of intelligent life in the universe.

2. Even the most powerful instruments supply no evidence of any form of life.

3. The fine tuning essential for life to exist increases the probability that it is extremely rare.

4. Stephen Hawking has argued, plausibly in my opinion, that intelligence militates against survival.

5. Even if intelligent life exists elsewhere the vastness of the universe diminishes the probability that it will be discovered.

6. Whether or not life exists elsewhere it is a miracle!

prodigalson2011 · #4 Apr 30, '12, 12:29 am

I lean towards "No." We're so improbable, we shouldn't even be here, from a materialistic perspective anyway.

ivory · #5 Apr 30, '12, 12:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyrey

1. There is no guarantee at all that there are other forms of intelligent life in the universe.

No guarantee, yes.

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2. Even the most powerful instruments supply no evidence of any form of life.

There's so much we can't see, even with our present day technology. According to our limited ability of observation, there is no sign of life out there, but that could be subject to change some day.

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3. The fine tuning essential for life to exist increases the probability that it is extremely rare.

The extremely specific conditions that are required for life (as we understand it) are indeed rare, but we're not sure how rare. When you think about the scale of the cosmos, it's possible that some solar system somewhere got lucky. Possible being the key word.

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4. Stephen Hawking has argued, plausibly in my opinion, that intelligence militates against survival.

Where did he say this? I'm interested in reading it.

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5. Even if intelligent life exists elsewhere the vastness of the universe diminishes the probability that it will be discovered.

Agreed. If intelligent extraterrestrials exist, they would have to have access to some sort of faster-than-light travel (which to our understanding is impossible), cross-dimensional travel (think hyperspace), or the ability to maintain themselves and their vessels over thousand, million, or even billion year long trips. All of those are equally unlikely when you take the size of the universe into consideration.

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6. Whether or not life exists elsewhere it is a miracle!

Amen

**tonyrey** · #6 Apr 30, '12, 2:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivory

Quote:

1. There is no guarantee at all that there are other forms of intelligent life in the universe.

No guarantee, yes.

Quote:

2. Even the most powerful instruments supply no evidence of any form of life.

There's so much we can't see, even with our present day technology. According to our limited ability of observation, there is no sign of life out there, but that could be subject to change some day.

I agree.

Quote:

3. The fine tuning essential for life to exist increases the probability that it is extremely rare.

The extremely specific conditions that are required for life (as we understand it) are indeed rare, but we're not sure how rare. When you think about the scale of the cosmos, it's possible that some solar system somewhere got lucky. Possible being the key word.

Quote:

5. Even if intelligent life exists elsewhere the vastness of the universe diminishes the probability that it will be discovered.

Agreed. If intelligent extraterrestrials exist, they would have to have access to some sort of faster-than-light travel (which to our understanding is impossible), cross-dimensional travel (think hyperspace), or the ability to maintain themselves and their vessels over thousand, million, or even billion year long trips. All of those are equally unlikely when you take the size of the universe into consideration.

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6. Whether or not life exists elsewhere it is a miracle!

Amen. No guarantee, yes.

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4. Stephen Hawking has argued, plausibly in my opinion, that intelligence militates against survival.

Where did he say this? I'm interested in reading it.

In a recent article which eludes me but he also make the point here:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/life-in-the-universe.html
I should add that his argument has the flaws to be expected from a materialist!

**tonyrey** · #7 Apr 30, '12, 2:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigalson2011

I lean towards "No." We're so improbable, we shouldn't even be here, from a materialistic perspective anyway.

I agree - especially when you consider human achievements..

**tonyrey** · #8 Apr 30, '12, 3:06 am

It has occurred to me that the yearning to find other forms of life in the universe may well be due to the unbeliever's sense of isolation when confronted with the inscrutable expanse of eternity. It can't be very inspiring to believe that we are utterly alone and totally insignificant - and that reality could be so incredibly harsh. It amounts to the epitome of negativity!

One of the main hazards for life is the frequency of collisions:

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What has kept the Earth “safe” at least the past 65 million years, other than blind luck is the massive gravitational field of Jupiter, our cosmic guardian, with its stable circular orbit far from the sun, which assures a low number of impacts resulting in mass extinctions by sweeping up and scatters away most of the dangerous Earth-orbit-crossing comets and asteroids.

http://www.ethiopianreview.com/articles/14955

Am I alone in thinking this blessing is not due to "blind luck" but to Providence?

hansard · #9 Apr 30, '12, 3:43 am

It's not Catholic theology, but I believe that we are alone in the cosmos and that it will be the special role of all the faithful to beautify and fill the cosmos--for all eternity, after the return of Christ, in glorified bodies, and after evil has been done away with.
That, to me, is better than an eternity gazing at God or strumming harps on a cloud somewhere.

But I digress. The chance of life arising (at least in an earthly manner, based on amino acids and proteins) is virtually zero.
Quoting from Bill Bryson's popular science, The Complete History of Nearly Everything:
"To make collagen (a common type of protein), you need to arrange 1,055 amino acids in precisely the right sequence...but...you don't make it. It makes itself spontaneously , without direction, and this is where the unlikelihoods come in.
"...To grasp what a long shot [collagen's] existence is, visualize a standard Las Vegas slot machine but broadened greatly--to about 27 metres...--to accommodate 1,055 spinning wheels instead of the usual three or four, and with twenty symbols on each wheel (one for each amino acid). How long would you have to pull the handle before all 1,055 symbols came up in the right order? Effectively, for ever. Even if you reduced the number of spinning wheels to 200, which is actually a more typical number of amino acids for a protein, the odds against all 200 coming up in a prescribed sequence are 1 in 10/260 (that is one followed by 260 zeros**). That in itself is a larger number than all the atoms in the universe."

And, Bryson goes on to say, there are millions of proteins, all existing in spite of such huge improbability.

(**I couldn't do scientific notation. I also accept that Bryson is not a scientific source, but he's readable and digestible, which is what I need, not being a scientist myself).

No, life as know it is only here. Of course, there may be other forms of life that we can't imagine. All Catholics believe in spiritual life, and I can't imagine what that must be like, so to a Catholic the universe is probably teeming with this higher, unknowable form of life.

Irishgal49 · #10 Apr 30, '12, 3:48 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by itullian

At this point in time, what do you think?

Let's hope so as there isn't much intelligent life on this planet

agnes therese · #11 Apr 30, '12, 3:48 am

We don't know whether there is life out there. And at present, we can't know. Of course God could have created life whenever and wherever He chose.

mariyka · #12 Apr 30, '12, 4:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by agnes therese

We don't know whether there is life out there. And at present, we can't know. Of course God could have created life whenever and wherever He chose.

cajun2core · #13 Apr 30, '12, 6:15 am

Given Drake's equation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

I think it is possible. However, will the chances of us ever finding it are very slim. The needle in the haystack analogy.

TheRealJuliane · #14 Apr 30, '12, 6:24 am

If God had made some other life form, why wouldn't he have told us about it?

Also, since He died for everyone, wouldn't that imply that if he HAD created other life, they would need a Savior too?

I think the Other Intelligent Life theories came from people who had no relationship to the One True God.

Gaber · #15 Apr 30, '12, 6:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by itullian

At this point in time, what do you think?

I think it is a mistake to think of life as the "forms" that manifest it. Life is a Force, and as we see on Earth, it will ake any possible route to manifest an accomodation to conditions. So Life, as a Force, or that horribly missuesed word, "God," isn't localized to a planet, nor to the cosmos. Take it from there.