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  #121  
Old May 7, '12, 7:46 am
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
So if you really think there is not evidence, does that mean you will not be reducing your GHG emissions or looking for ways to do so?
Yes I am also not going fence my yard in to keep Wooly Mammoths out of my yard until I see evidence they are in the neighborhood
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  #122  
Old May 7, '12, 10:03 am
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

Originally Posted by lynnvinc
So if you really think there is not evidence, does that mean you will not be reducing your GHG emissions or looking for ways to do so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
Yes I am also not going fence my yard in to keep Wooly Mammoths out of my yard until I see evidence they are in the neighborhood
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  #123  
Old May 7, '12, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

Originally Posted by seekerz
The greatest threat I see to the Church right now is simply that people (and this is exemplified by our political parties) assume the right to pick and choose which parts of the Gospel to live and which they can dispense with!


Originally Posted by ishii
CAn you give us some examples of what you're talking about here?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1voice View Post
September 2008, Biden was barred, by Joseph Francis Martino, the bishop of Scranton, Pennsylvania, from receiving Holy Communion in the diocese because of his support for abortion rights.

Biden's record on abortion includes receiving a 100% rating from NARAL Pro-Choice America in four of the last five years

Nancy Pelosi. The late Ted Kennedy.
Posted by 1voice:

Biden: “I’m absolutely comfortable” with gay marriage

“I think ‘Will & Grace’ probably did more to educate the American public than almost anything anybody’s ever done.”
...Joe Biden

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/meet-the-...12632#47312632
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  #124  
Old May 7, '12, 5:10 pm
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
Yes I am also not going fence my yard in to keep Wooly Mammoths out of my yard until I see evidence they are in the neighborhood
Well, it's people who refuse to do their part in reducing their GHG emissions that push me toward supporting some kind of regs and voting for Democrats so as to prevent the worse-case scenarios from greatly harming and killing the children and yet unborn.

You're not the only one -- most Americans have actually increased their GHG emissions over the past 20 years, not reduced them.

It's very sad people do not even want to save money (without lowering living standards or productivity) from the myriad AGW mitigation solutions,* just to show they don't believe there is serious environmental risk to future generations, despite the fact there is plenty of scientific evidence AND JPII & BXVI have been calling on us since to reduce our GHGs.

We are such a materialistic, profligate, arrogant society. I guess it will be harder for an American to get into heaven than for a elephant to go through the eye of the needle.

Then the choir of baby-killers has to laugh at me. I don't care. I stand with Jesus as they crowned him with thorns and taunted him.

Peace be with you all. My prayers are with you.

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* We've reduced our GHG emissions by 70% since 1990 cost-effectively even increasing our living standard a bit. It really does not hurt to do good, and if one seeks first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, all thing will be added unto them. I guess people don't believe in that either.
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  #125  
Old May 7, '12, 5:26 pm
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
Well, it's people who refuse to do their part in reducing their GHG emissions that push me toward supporting some kind of regs and voting for Democrats so as to prevent the worse-case scenarios from greatly harming and killing the children and yet unborn.

You're not the only one -- most Americans have actually increased their GHG emissions over the past 20 years, not reduced them.

It's very sad people do not even want to save money (without lowering living standards or productivity) from the myriad AGW mitigation solutions,* just to show they don't believe there is serious environmental risk to future generations, despite the fact there is plenty of scientific evidence AND JPII & BXVI have been calling on us since to reduce our GHGs.

We are such a materialistic, profligate, arrogant society. I guess it will be harder for an American to get into heaven than for a elephant to go through the eye of the needle.

Then the choir of baby-killers has to laugh at me. I don't care. I stand with Jesus as they crowned him with thorns and taunted him.

Peace be with you all. My prayers are with you.

_________________
* We've reduced our GHG emissions by 70% since 1990 cost-effectively even increasing our living standard a bit. It really does not hurt to do good, and if one seeks first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, all thing will be added unto them. I guess people don't believe in that either.
So when did people who are not global warming alarmists become "baby killers"
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  #126  
Old May 8, '12, 8:18 am
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

Quote:
Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
So when did people who are not global warming alarmists become "baby killers"
Physical harms out in the environment do not exist or fail to exist because people either believe or disbelieve they are there.

There are many ways in which we are killing babies through our environmental harms that are connected to activities in which GHGs are emitted. For instance local pollution from ICE car driving or coal-fired electricity use causes miscarriages & birth defects, and harms and deaths, esp to the more vulnerable children and elderly. Fracking for gas also leads to miscarriages and a number of other ailments. Regional pollution from N2O and SO2 from ICE cars electric plants -- esp when it turns of nitric and sulfuric acid also harms people, including babies/fetuses, and other things. And carbonic acid from emitting CO2 is also harmful to the ocean, soil, etc.

Manufacture & use of synthetic fertilizer, which also contributes to AGW thru increasing N2O in the atmosphere, can lead to nitrate leaching into ground water, causing blue-baby syndrome and the death of babies (locally where the fertilizer is manufactured and/or used).

These are just a few of the many reasons why we should reduce our fossil fuel energy and synthetic fertilizer use, in addition to striving to reduce GHG emissions from these activities.

As for harms to babies from AGW, there are the drought-caused famines, severe storms, vector disease spread, increased floods and increase in deadly heat waves that harm and kill children -- either directly or through diminishing food and water needed to keep them alive. The fact that night lows are increasing faster than day highs (a signature of GW), is actually more harmful, because people need to recouperate during the night from extreme day temps. They attribute about half the deaths in the 2003 European heatwave to AGW, pointing out the role that the higher night lows played in these deaths.

It would take a book or set of books to write about all the ways our refusal to reduce our GHGs (and concomitant pollutants) is harming and killing people, especially the most vulnerable -- elderly, health-compromised, and babies.

And this is just the beginning, and at this point it is somewhat difficult to attribute all this to AGW at the 95% confidence level scientists usually require. When AGW really sets in from the GHGs already in the atmosphere (and those we deign to add from now on), the harms will be much much worse...perhaps as during the end-Permian great warming when 95% of life died out, or even worse than that. If we fail to mitigate something similar to the end-Permian could happen in which the warming causes the oceans to become anoxic, and a certain bacteria turns the CH4 (methane) into hydrogen sulfide, a deadly gas -- a process that was thought to nearly wipe out the remainder of life after the warming had done great harm to life -- see http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/c...33/5/397.short

The point is our ICE vehicle and other emissions/activities of today that contribute to AGW and other enviro problems will be harming people, esp babies and the elderly, well into the future for 1000s of years, esp if we fail to mitigate.

These processes are not dependent on whether or not we believe they are happening.
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"The Lord God lives before whom I stand."
-- 1 Kings 17:1

"Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
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  #127  
Old May 8, '12, 8:34 am
JimG JimG is online now
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

In any case I would not vote for any candidate who threatens my religious liberty, promotes abortion and homosexual marriage, or threatens to force the nation intor bankruptcy.
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  #128  
Old May 8, '12, 8:41 am
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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In any case I would not vote for any candidate who threatens my religious liberty, promotes abortion and homosexual marriage, or threatens to force the nation intor bankruptcy.


But what if he drives a Prius?
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  #129  
Old May 8, '12, 8:45 am
JimG JimG is online now
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
But what if he drives a Prius?
I'd prefer that he drive a 1963 Dodge Dart with 104,000 miles on it which is only used to drive to church on Sundays.
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  #130  
Old May 8, '12, 9:08 am
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
Physical harms out in the environment do not exist or fail to exist because people either believe or disbelieve they are there.

There are many ways in which we are killing babies through our environmental harms that are connected to activities in which GHGs are emitted. For instance local pollution from ICE car driving or coal-fired electricity use causes miscarriages & birth defects, and harms and deaths, esp to the more vulnerable children and elderly. Fracking for gas also leads to miscarriages and a number of other ailments. Regional pollution from N2O and SO2 from ICE cars electric plants -- esp when it turns of nitric and sulfuric acid also harms people, including babies/fetuses, and other things. And carbonic acid from emitting CO2 is also harmful to the ocean, soil, etc.

Manufacture & use of synthetic fertilizer, which also contributes to AGW thru increasing N2O in the atmosphere, can lead to nitrate leaching into ground water, causing blue-baby syndrome and the death of babies (locally where the fertilizer is manufactured and/or used).

These are just a few of the many reasons why we should reduce our fossil fuel energy and synthetic fertilizer use, in addition to striving to reduce GHG emissions from these activities.

As for harms to babies from AGW, there are the drought-caused famines, severe storms, vector disease spread, increased floods and increase in deadly heat waves that harm and kill children -- either directly or through diminishing food and water needed to keep them alive. The fact that night lows are increasing faster than day highs (a signature of GW), is actually more harmful, because people need to recouperate during the night from extreme day temps. They attribute about half the deaths in the 2003 European heatwave to AGW, pointing out the role that the higher night lows played in these deaths.

It would take a book or set of books to write about all the ways our refusal to reduce our GHGs (and concomitant pollutants) is harming and killing people, especially the most vulnerable -- elderly, health-compromised, and babies.

And this is just the beginning, and at this point it is somewhat difficult to attribute all this to AGW at the 95% confidence level scientists usually require. When AGW really sets in from the GHGs already in the atmosphere (and those we deign to add from now on), the harms will be much much worse...perhaps as during the end-Permian great warming when 95% of life died out, or even worse than that. If we fail to mitigate something similar to the end-Permian could happen in which the warming causes the oceans to become anoxic, and a certain bacteria turns the CH4 (methane) into hydrogen sulfide, a deadly gas -- a process that was thought to nearly wipe out the remainder of life after the warming had done great harm to life -- see http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/c...33/5/397.short

The point is our ICE vehicle and other emissions/activities of today that contribute to AGW and other enviro problems will be harming people, esp babies and the elderly, well into the future for 1000s of years, esp if we fail to mitigate.

These processes are not dependent on whether or not we believe they are happening.

But we have no evidence of that. Per the Global Warming Alarmists like Hansen we should already see rising temperatures and rising sea levels. We haven't And there is a certain amount of arrogance among the AGW crowd-the idea that we are been living under the absolute perfect climate and must move heaven and earth to maintain it. Why? What is so special about this climate We've had both warmer and cooler climates in the past. What makes the current client the perfect climate-the one we must maintain at all costs?
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We ought to speak, shout out against injustices, with confidence and without fear. We proclaim the principles of the Church, the reign of love, without forgetting that it is also a reign of justice.

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  #131  
Old May 8, '12, 9:56 am
ellipsis2 ellipsis2 is offline
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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Originally Posted by estesbob View Post
But we have no evidence of that. Per the Global Warming Alarmists like Hansen we should already see rising temperatures and rising sea levels. We haven't And there is a certain amount of arrogance among the AGW crowd-the idea that we are been living under the absolute perfect climate and must move heaven and earth to maintain it. Why? What is so special about this climate We've had both warmer and cooler climates in the past. What makes the current client the perfect climate-the one we must maintain at all costs?
"We have not evidence of that" Are you kidding? You live here, on Earth, right?
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  #132  
Old May 8, '12, 9:59 am
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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Originally Posted by ellipsis2 View Post
"We have not evidence of that" Are you kidding? You live here, on Earth, right?

An earth that has shown no warming since 1998. per the AGW alarmists models we should have a much high temperature now.
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  #133  
Old May 8, '12, 10:01 am
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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I'd prefer that he drive a 1963 Dodge Dart with 104,000 miles on it which is only used to drive to church on Sundays.
Good for you. It's people like you who would make me more willing to vote for the Republican CC denialist, who would be for reducing abortion (tho there is a terrible disconnect in such a person's logic as to why babies slated for abortion are important, but babies slated for death thru enviro harms are to be killed and discarded).

We don't really need regs or leadership from the top, if everyone just did their part in those small and easy ways that save them money while saving the earth for future generations.

In addition to simply driving less & reducing impact by refusing to buy a new car every 3 years, people can also "hypermile" and increase their fuel efficiency by 20% or even up to 100% in some cases.

We only got our Chevy Volt (our 2nd new car in 43 years of marriage), which we mainly drive on our 100% wind generated electricity, after our Taurus with over 125,000 miles on it started leaking everywhere and was going to cost a great bundle to fix....much more than it was worth. But we did our part before our Volt by living close to work/shops (within 1 or 2 miles) for the past 43 years, when the motivation back then was to save a finite fuel that was nearing peak for future generations. Living close to work & shops has also meant less stress, more family time, less hazardous fumes exposure, and great money savings, not only from less fuel but also less maintenance costs.

So with savings from that and the many other enviro things we do, we were able to afford a Volt....which will also be saving us and pay the difference btw it and the Taurus hubby wanted in about 7 years (it costs $1.23 in electricity to drive 40-42 miles).

I just wish the denialists would do something to reduce their GHG emissions and other pollutants, just to humor us "warmers."
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  #134  
Old May 8, '12, 10:36 am
exoflare exoflare is offline
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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Then the choir of baby-killers has to laugh at me. I don't care. I stand with Jesus as they crowned him with thorns and taunted him.
oh the ego on this one
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  #135  
Old May 8, '12, 11:40 am
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: Gallup: Catholic vote a tossup, 46/46

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oh the ego on this one
Thanks for pointing out my flaw, and please pray that I overcome my arrogance.

I realized later that I had spoken in arrogance by using the term "baby-killers." I have reasons -- the way anti-environmentalists have been labeling me & other environmentalists as baby-killers for being concerned about AGW and other enviro problems, but I have no excuses. None whatsoever. It was arrogance pure and simple. Which is actually very counterproductive, as it turns people off of mitigating environmental problems, rather than inspires them to do so.

So sorry.
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