KoC Obligations?

[dorpus]

Hello, I was recently baptized and confirmed into the faith (back in Alabama). At the end of the ceremony, the local KoC leader shook hands and invited me to join.

What obligations come with becoming KoC? Are there membership dues? Am I required to purchase a uniform? Do I need to walk around in costumes and drive little cars at parades? Is there pressure to give money to charities? I ask because I am financially strapped -- I have a new job in Texas, and I am supporting my family that is staying in Alabama for now. I have a lot of debts to pay off. I would be interested in networking opportunities to become acquainted with the new city, but not if it involves too much commitment of time or money.

[marty1818]

Are there membership dues?

Yes

Am I required to purchase a uniform?

No. There are four degrees in the K of C. Once you are a third degree you are considered a full member. After some time you can become a fourth degree if you want to. Those are the guys that dress up in tuxedos with the hat and sword for honor guards at parades or masses.

Do I need to walk around in costumes and drive little cars at parades?

Participating in the honor guard is something optional you can do and there are no little cars like the Shriners.

Is there pressure to give money to charities?

There are a number of fundraisers most councils take part in to raise the money given to charity. As far as personal donations, there's no pressure to donate. When it comes to donating your money and time, you give what you can give.

[tee_eff_em]

Originally Posted by marty1818

There are four degrees in the K of C. Once you are a third degree you are considered a full member. After some time you can become a fourth degree if you want to. Those are the guys that dress up in tuxedos with the hat and sword for honor guards at parades or masses.

Originally Posted by marty1818

Participating in the honor guard is something optional you can do and there are no little cars like the Shriners

Just to to make it more obviouser: Even in the Fourth Degree, purchase of regalia and participation in the Color Corps is completely optional.


One other thing to mention is that in addition to many things you already know about the Knights, the KofC is also an insurance association*. The purchase of insurance products is also completely optional, and though it is not typically a hard-sell, if they are doing their job it will be persistent -- Expect to hear from the insurance agency at least once a year. Say "no, thank you" every time if you so choose, and no one will think any less of you.

(* Many of the organization's notable charitable works are supported by investments of the agency side of things)

tee

[Bartolome Casas]

Originally Posted by dorpus

Hello, I was recently baptized and confirmed into the faith (back in Alabama). At the end of the ceremony, the local KoC leader shook hands and invited me to join.

What obligations come with becoming KoC? Are there membership dues? Am I required to purchase a uniform? Do I need to walk around in costumes and drive little cars at parades? Is there pressure to give money to charities? I ask because I am financially strapped -- I have a new job in Texas, and I am supporting my family that is staying in Alabama for now. I have a lot of debts to pay off. I would be interested in networking opportunities to become acquainted with the new city, but not if it involves too much commitment of time or money.

Soon after joining, you will be contacted by one of the K of C insurance agents, and he will put heavy pressure on your to by life insurance. I am a member of K of C. The agent you contacted me almost would not take no for an answer. I know of some K of C members who bought life insurance that they could not afford just to not seem like some one who was against the K of C.

Original and main purpose of the K of C was to provide avoidable life insurance to Catholic workers.

Other than that, I don't think there are any heavy demand in terms of dues, volunteering, or donations.

I think lots of men do join the K of C for business networking opportunities. Other join just for the friendships and brotherhood. Some join just for the beer parties.

[Luigi Daniele]

Expect to be asked about purchasing their insurance yearly.

[Elizium23]

I am not sure you have the right intention if you only view this as a networking opportunity to get ahead in business.

The Order is a spiritual community where men come together in prayer and service for God, the Church, and the community. You don't need a lot of money to participate. I have a low income. But I offer my time and talent in stewardship to my parish and my council in all activities where I can be helpful. We participate in fundraising activities, we foster educational values in children, and we strongly support the Holy Father, clergy, and vocations to the priesthood and religious life.

One of the primary complaints in my council is that we have brother Knights on the roster who do not volunteer for committees and do not participate when there is a call for service. We find that the same dozen people are constantly pulling the weight of 120+ member council. Needless to say, this limits the scope and type of events we can provide for the parish.

I am not saying that the Knights will take all your time. Many of us have jobs, and families and other committments. We have busy seasons and off-seasons here; during Lent, there is a Fish Fry every week, and we need people with Food Handler cards in the kitchen. That's about 4 hours a week. The monthly meetings run about an hour and a half. I am Recording Secretary, and I spend another hour or so a month on transcribing and printing the meeting minutes. I also spend a couple hours on creating a bimonthly newsletter for the council. That is a typical committment you can expect if you are in the Third Degree.

The Fourth Degree ceremony requires that you wear a tuxedo, which can be rented. The Fourth Degree also has a parallel organization, the Assembly, which has its own monthly meetings and officer positions. If you are sensitive to cost or time committments, it is sometimes wise to stay in the Third Degree. Then again, if you eventually find that you would like to attend two meetings a month, and possibly hold office in the assembly, and participate in the Color Guard, you will find that brother Knights can be very generous in donating items like the sword and chapeau to reduce your cost.

There will be plenty of time for networking. After meetings we typically have snacks and beer. On the fifth Sundays, we have a Corporate Communion event, when all Knights attend the same Mass. And we have recently restarted a monthly social hour with dinner at a local establishment. You would also do well to be involved in District and State-level events such as the annual State Convention, where you can be a voting delegate, get to know the inner workings of the State Council, and meet brother Knights from near and far, usually in a cushy resort hotel setting.

I hope that you do consider joining the Knights. You will find that it pays dividends in many ways. It will make you a stronger man, a better husband, a better father, and a better Catholic.

[CatholicBoy1957]

I normally recommend that if a person has plenty of money, and have no problem taking care of themselves, perhaps they can have some fun in the Knights. But you are saying that you have debts, and that's a problem. I wish I could have back the money and time that I've stuck into the Knights over the past, almost 30 years. It was a complete waste for me.

I know there are those who claim they are happy with their membership, and perhaps, if a person belongs to one of the better councils, perhaps they didn't have to pay dues when they completely ran out of luck, and perhaps their council was there for them. For me, that was not the case. I can't even get a yearly membership card, even though I've submitted an application for a dues waiver, and submitted proof from the Social Security Administration, that I am totally and permanently disabled. I've gone through bankruptcy, and have difficulty paying for medicines, and have stopped taking many of them. The response from the Grand Knight of my council was to ignore my inquiry as to the status of my dues waiver application, and if I can't get past that, I guess I won't be expecting any other help.

I strongly recommend that you think long and hard about joining. If you do, good luck to you, and I hope you find one of the supposedly good councils, and find someone that cares. If you are pro-life, take a look at how well the pro-abortion politicians that are Knights are treated.

[Elizium23]

I think that's a rather unfair characterization of all Knights just because of your unfortunate experiences with one council. You open some unanswered questions :- did you also talk to St. Vincent de Paul? Were you an active volunteer in your parish community and your council? Did you talk to your pastor or the council chaplain about your concerns? What about the district deputy? State council? Supreme? Did you ask the Grand Knight to place your name on a regular basis in Good of the Order, in which brother Knights are called to assist brothers in need? Did you visit neighboring councils and present your case?

On the face of it, it sounds like your council was lacking in the core values taught in each of the degrees (Charity, Unity, Fraternity, Patriotism) but we don't know all the facts.

As for the abortion issue and politicians who are also brother Knights, the requirement to be a "practical Catholic in communion with the Holy See" requires self-identification, not any inquisition into the sincerity of a brother Knight's faith or practice. The Order has been very clear that neither councils nor Supreme can independently decide that a brother Knight is unworthy of membership and boot him out.

[CatholicBoy1957]

Originally Posted by Elizium23

I think that's a rather unfair characterization of all Knights just because of your unfortunate experiences with one council.

Actually, I did recognize in my post, the Knights that are happy with their membership. Frankly, you would have to search long and far to find more Knights with the misfortune that has befallen me. This was an opportunity for my council to test their mettle, and they failed. The Knights is probably great, as long as you don't need them.

Nonetheless, I'm certainly agreeable to reading testimonies from other Knights regarding the good things the Knights has done for them.

You open some unanswered questions :- did you also talk to St. Vincent de Paul?

No. My church doesn't have one. I can't imagine what they would have to do with obtaining a membership card for the Knights. That is a sad testament of the Knights if another organization needs to intercede in the matters of the Knights, or worse yet, pay those dues. Why can't the Knights handle their own affairs, waive their own dues, and issue their own membership cards?

My church does have a Chi Rho. The woman that runs it is a member of the choir, and we certainly know each other, and we've talked, and I've talked to her husband. He was a borough council member, until recently. He said the borough is going to issue large fines to me, because of some problems with my property that I'm having difficulty taking care of. That helps a lot, doesn't it?

While I'm discussing them, let me discuss this matter related to them. Their son is a member of my council, my parish, and attends Malvern Retreat House, where I see him, and we've talked, and he knows me. A few years ago, he asked me to help at the Fish Fry, and I agreed to help, but I felt my presence needed to be approved because of my membership card situation, and I told him to verify that, and get back to me, but he didn't. Some time later, he asked why I didn't help at the Fish Fry, and I reminded him of our agreement, and he asked if anyone got in touch with me, and I informed him they did not, and that he was supposed to do that.

I was asked again, the following year, to help at the Fish Fry by another member, and I gave him the whole, long version of my membership card story, and what happened the previous year with the Fish Fry, and told him to get back to me if it was okay. He also did not get back to me.

Were you an active volunteer in your parish community and your council?

I've been a lector for 45 years, and to the best of my recollection, the only child in my parish to be a regular Sunday lector. I was also a choir member and cantor for about 20 years, but I had to quit those recently because of the progression of my condition, and I might soon quit lectoring. There were a few other things, like Boy Scout leadership, the passion play parts, and working bingo. I participated in a number of groups in other parishes, even as a leader, including the Charismatic Renewal, Cursillo, Truth In Religion, and The Catholic Men of Good News.

I attended KofC meetings for many years, more steadily at first, as health permitted, but not much towards the end of my ability to work full time. I was insulted by the Grand Knight for showing a pro-life video at one of our meetings when I first joined, but that didn't stop me.

Did you talk to your pastor or the council chaplain about your concerns?

After writing to the then Financial Secretary and then Grand Knight, wouldn't that be going backwards?

What good would it do to strong-arm them now to give me a membership card? What would I be a member of? I don’t want the card anymore. I don't want to be a part of something that has treated me like this. They've blown the wind out of my sails for anything Knights of Columbus. Their hearts are not in it like mine was. How do I force someone to care about me? I know I have a tendency to try to succeed beyond reason, and I've taken an astounding amount of abuse in the past before giving up, but I've finally got it in my head by now.

I also had a lesson several years ago, about being careful when asking the pastor anything. I had a much more pressing matter than this, that I wanted an appointment with him so as to discuss it, and his response was that I should look it up on the internet. I realized that if that was his attitude, he was surely not going to be of any help, his heart wouldn't be in it, and indeed, I could probably find better help on the internet. The current pastor is a much more agreeable person, and he has given me cash for heating fuel and medicine already, but no, I'm not going to ask for help with the Knights.

[CatholicBoy1957]

What about the district deputy? State council? Supreme?

There again, I don't see the sense going to that extent to strong-arming my council to issue a card if their hearts are not in it, however, I did, just this year, write to the State Deputy and former District Deputy, regarding a suspension letter I received from the Financial Secretary, which indicated that they were sent a CC. I did not write to ask for a membership card, but rather, I wrote to point out that the letter stated that I was contacted by the council's Retention Committee. Not true!

The former District Deputy let me know that he spoke to the FS to let him know that I'm still on disability. The response from the SD was more intriguing. In addition to referring the matter to the current DD, he indicated that he received about 7 to 800 copies of this letter this fraternal year. This fact alone is making me think that perhaps I take my commitments much too seriously. While I was sweating about paying dues, or getting a dues waiver, other members are just walking away.

That seems to open a suggestion for Mr. dorpus, who is concerned about obligations, should he join. Perhaps he could join, and, if he doesn't find what he was looking for, he could just walk away from it, without sticking more money or time into it. That's not my style, and it's not something I would do, but it looks like I'm the odd one.

Did you ask the Grand Knight to place your name on a regular basis in Good of the Order, in which brother Knights are called to assist brothers in need?

Why ask him for that, when I couldn't even get a membership card? Not even a response, or reason why I can't have it? It would seem like that card is the absolutely bare minimum starting point. I live across the street from the church where they meet, and they see how I live. I've explained my situation in writing, to the then GK and then FS. If he didn't place my name in the Good of the Order, it's understandable. That seems like asking for a step beyond the step they haven't made yet, and frankly, at this point, they don't need to make. I'm done.

Did you visit neighboring councils and present your case?

I don't understand what part they would have in issuing a membership card for another council. Would they strong-arm my council? Again, I see no point in associating myself with them if this is the way it is.

On the face of it, it sounds like your council was lacking in the core values taught in each of the degrees (Charity, Unity, Fraternity, Patriotism) but we don't know all the facts.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask, even if it takes a while for me to respond.

As for the abortion issue and politicians who are also brother Knights, the requirement to be a "practical Catholic in communion with the Holy See" requires self-identification, not any inquisition into the sincerity of a brother Knight's faith or practice. The Order has been very clear that neither councils nor Supreme can independently decide that a brother Knight is unworthy of membership and boot him out.

Just ignore, or place on a list of not in good standing, for much more heinous evil, like being sick and broke.