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  #196  
Old May 8, '12, 5:59 pm
LisaA LisaA is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Originally Posted by CMatt25 View Post
Can they now contract for all federal benefits too? I'm just asking because I keep seeing on this thread that all gay couples have to do is go to an attorney and draw up a contract. And I know heterosexuals who have had the right to Social Security spousal benefits for instance without having to draw up a separate contract.
Boy thats a compelling reason to allow same sex marriage...take advantage of government bennies! Let's encourage more feeding at the public trough. Let's change thousands of years of history and tradition so Bob can put Bill on his medical insurance.

Actually government entities have been far more lenient (since they don't have to PAY for it) about benefits for "domestic partners" regardless of whether it's Bob and Joe or Bob and Mary Jo. I have a hard time believing this is a major issue.

I think the issue has been ability to visit the partner in the hospital (this tear jerker has been used for years) buy or rent property together, leave assets to the partner, etc. That they can do.

Lisa
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  #197  
Old May 8, '12, 6:18 pm
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

Again, let's be clear that it is not in the interest of the State to provide identical benefits to homosexual partners as to married heterosexual partners, as the latter is seen as promoting the overall heatlh and welfare of the State, uniquely, unlike other kinds of partnerships (homosexual or heterosexual). If there are no distinctions in benefits, then all lifestyles, all arrangements would be viewed as equally beneficial to a well-ordered society.
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  #198  
Old May 8, '12, 6:51 pm
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Again, let's be clear that it is not in the interest of the State to provide identical benefits to homosexual partners as to married heterosexual partners, as the latter is seen as promoting the overall heatlh and welfare of the State, uniquely, unlike other kinds of partnerships (homosexual or heterosexual). If there are no distinctions in benefits, then all lifestyles, all arrangements would be viewed as equally beneficial to a well-ordered society.
In fact, if homosexual marriage is permitted, so should any coupling be permitted. Only the traditional family provides societal benefits. Therefore, once marriage means nothing, there is no reason for the state to provide any special benefits to marriage at all.

Children will be the losers in all this, but they have been the losers in nearly all the social changes brought about by the contraceptive revolution.
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  #199  
Old May 8, '12, 7:48 pm
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bellasbane bellasbane is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

Same-sex marriage has been legal in Massachusetts since 2004. During this time, the divorce rate in the state has dropped from 2.2 to 1.8 (per 1,000), making it the lowest in the nation. Not bad for a state full of liberal Democrats.

So I'd like to know how long do we have to wait for all hell to break loose? Seems like some sort of negative impact should be evident by now.

I know the Bishops say, but this one just doesn't make sense to me. At one time, opposing witchcraft and heresy was all the rage among the hierarchy - today it's gay marriage. I don't see how this is any different, so I'm not going to support the Bishop's agenda on this one. It just feels wrong to me. The gay couples I know are not threats to society. If God has a problem with that, I guess I'll find out about it someday. I'd rather trust in God's mercy than go against my conscience.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923080.html
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  #200  
Old May 8, '12, 7:55 pm
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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In fact, if homosexual marriage is permitted, so should any coupling be permitted. Only the traditional family provides societal benefits. Therefore, once marriage means nothing, there is no reason for the state to provide any special benefits to marriage at all.

Children will be the losers in all this, but they have been the losers in nearly all the social changes brought about by the contraceptive revolution.

Totally.
[underlining mine]
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  #201  
Old May 8, '12, 8:22 pm
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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I know the Bishops say, but this one just doesn't make sense to me.
First of all, if you were well grounded in Catholic reasoning, including Life issues and Life theology as espoused in the Catechism and in Theology of the Body, the Bishops and Vatican teachings on fundamental opposition of homosexual behavior to the Order of Creation, not to mention the the purpose of heterosexual marriage within this Order, you would understand perfectly. To reject this, you must reject the essential fact that homosexual behavior itself is fundamentally disordered, which is a core Catholic belief which cannot be separated from other aspects of Catholic sexuality.

Second, there are dogmas and doctrines of the Church, which like the doctrines on sexuality, are not optional for Catholics to believe, yet to many of us, not all of them "make sense." We follow (obey) by the faith of an informed and willing conscience. The Virgin Birth, the Immaculate Conception, the Trinity, Transubstantiation, the Resurrection, the invisible sanctifying grace of the sacraments also "do not make sense," but they are similarly core elements of Catholicism.

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Originally Posted by bellasbane View Post
At one time, opposing witchcraft and heresy was all the rage among the hierarchy - today it's gay marriage. I don't see how this is any different, so I'm not going to support the Bishop's agenda on this one. It just feels wrong to me.
Yeah. Imagine. The hierarchy opposing witchcraft and heresy. How unreasonable of them. And, truly, how SIMILAR to their opposition to something as equally acceptable as witchcraft and heresy: gay "marriage."

And finally, yeah: no question. How something "feels" is the standard by which we form our consciences in Catholicism. (Not. )
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  #202  
Old May 8, '12, 8:25 pm
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Dawnia Dawnia is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Originally Posted by bellasbane View Post
Same-sex marriage has been legal in Massachusetts since 2004. During this time, the divorce rate in the state has dropped from 2.2 to 1.8 (per 1,000), making it the lowest in the nation. Not bad for a state full of liberal Democrats.

So I'd like to know how long do we have to wait for all hell to break loose? Seems like some sort of negative impact should be evident by now.

I know the Bishops say, but this one just doesn't make sense to me. At one time, opposing witchcraft and heresy was all the rage among the hierarchy - today it's gay marriage. I don't see how this is any different, so I'm not going to support the Bishop's agenda on this one. It just feels wrong to me. The gay couples I know are not threats to society. If God has a problem with that, I guess I'll find out about it someday. I'd rather trust in God's mercy than go against my conscience.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923080.html
Well you can't have divorce without marriage. The divorce rate has gone down in Mass but so has the marriage rate. Where a very small minority of gays are getting married, a greater number of heterosexual couples are seeing marriage as a pointless shackle.
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  #203  
Old May 8, '12, 8:46 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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LOL Good one, Robert! Is this a civil or religious ceremony? I concur with the posters: oh no, polygamy....
But lest we not forget polygamy is a separate issue. You Meltzerboy and Robert have provided some laughs though.
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  #204  
Old May 8, '12, 8:46 pm
Jerry Miah Jerry Miah is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Originally Posted by meltzerboy View Post
On the other hand, many people, both Catholics and non-Catholics, choose not to impose their own moral values on others and prefer to live and let live. In case you haven't noticed, the issue of gay civil unions and marriage is not as big a deal as it once was, which is a huge understatement. There was a time when the very topic was not even on the radar screen.
Yes, as it fades from the news people will stop caring about it.
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  #205  
Old May 8, '12, 8:51 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey would disagree with you, Matt. He actually stated he thought Blacks would have appreciated civil rights being put to the test of a popular vote instead of legislated by the government. And he's a moderate Republican!
Well wouldn't be the first time I'd question the governor's thoughts. It kinda scares me though in some ways that Christie is today's definiton of a moderate Republican. But I suppose considering the direction they've taken in recent history, he could be.
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  #206  
Old May 8, '12, 8:53 pm
Et Cetera Et Cetera is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Well wouldn't be the first time I'd question the governor's thoughts. It kinda scares me though in some ways that Christie is today's definiton of a moderate Republican. But I suppose considering the direction they've taken in recent history, he could be.
Agreed.
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  #207  
Old May 8, '12, 8:56 pm
Et Cetera Et Cetera is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Originally Posted by LisaA View Post
Boy thats a compelling reason to allow same sex marriage...take advantage of government bennies! Let's encourage more feeding at the public trough. Let's change thousands of years of history and tradition so Bob can put Bill on his medical insurance.

Lisa
My God, this is some sour rhetoric. You're assuming that homosexuals want to get married to take advantage of government benefits? Uh, no. They want to get married to express their love for their partner in a country that is supposed to have a separation of church and state. The arguments concerning visitation rights and other benefits are only to illustrate that some people (myself included) believe that in a secular country these rights should not be denied on the basis of sexual orientation.

Furthermore, the arguments that homosexual unions will destroy this country have no basis in fact. Why do you feel threatened by two people of the same sex getting married? That's their private life. If you don't want to marry someone of the same sex, you don't have to. I'm straight, but I support homosexuals because in this country I just want people to be able to be happy. I don't feel threatened by different sexual orientations. In twenty years or so I suspect that this kind of stuff won't be much of an issue anymore as the country will become more accepting.
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  #208  
Old May 8, '12, 9:00 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Originally Posted by LisaA View Post
Boy thats a compelling reason to allow same sex marriage...take advantage of government bennies! Let's encourage more feeding at the public trough. Let's change thousands of years of history and tradition so Bob can put Bill on his medical insurance.

Actually government entities have been far more lenient (since they don't have to PAY for it) about benefits for "domestic partners" regardless of whether it's Bob and Joe or Bob and Mary Jo. I have a hard time believing this is a major issue.

I think the issue has been ability to visit the partner in the hospital (this tear jerker has been used for years) buy or rent property together, leave assets to the partner, etc. That they can do.

Lisa
Umm actually by Social Security spousal benefits I was referring to cases when one partner has died. My mother for instance was blessed to be able to receive SS based on her partner after his death since they were both heterosexual. I wasn't just talking medical insurance. Good thing some traditions and history change though. Lots of things written in Biblical times are not practiced today. Otherwise you and the other females here wouldn't be able to speak in churches for instance. In any case God bless and peace.
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  #209  
Old May 8, '12, 9:05 pm
Wiljo2050 Wiljo2050 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Originally Posted by Ecoclimber View Post
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...-marriage?lite

Vice President Joe Biden on Sunday said that's he's "absolutely comfortable" with married same-sex couples being granted the same rights as heterosexual pairs.

"I am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women, and heterosexual men and women marrying another are entitled to the same exact rights, all the civil rights, all the civil liberties," he told NBC's David Gregory on "Meet the Press." "And quite frankly, I don't see much of a distinction beyond that." (Msnbc.com is a joint venture of Microsoft and NBC Universal.)

I believe Obama just lost the election. With the evangelical vote 40% and those Catholics who support the magesterium of the Catholic Church and the call of Catholic Bishops to oppose homosexual unions and Obama's HHS mandate, apparently the Obama administration would rather receive the support of 4% of the population in this issue.

Vice President Biden needs to square his faith with the doctrines of the Catholic Church.
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  #210  
Old May 8, '12, 9:09 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
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Default Re: Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage

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Originally Posted by bellasbane View Post
The gay couples I know are not threats to society. If God has a problem with that, I guess I'll find out about it someday. I'd rather trust in God's mercy than go against my conscience.
Some of them are even providing loving homes for children. So no they are not a threat to society and can actually be providing a benefit to it. I know a lot of people here are going to disagree. But go ask some of the children who are blessed to have found loving homes and tell them something is wrong with their parents and family. You might hurt them in the process. In any case I'd rather trust God's mercy too if I were to find out I was wrong than to go against my conscience. God bless you.

Last edited by CMatt25; May 8, '12 at 9:20 pm.
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