Biden: I'm 'absolutely comfortable' with gay marriage - Page 3

Elizabeth502 · #31 May 6, '12, 5:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

I did, they're addressing homosexual marriage, not civil rights

Wrong. They have a statement in there about civil unions as well. Please read it. It's there. Separately they address homosexual marriage. They address both and oppose both.

ellipsis2 · #32 May 6, '12, 5:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRRTFAN

If you, as a Jewish person, print out your respones and read it in light of the Holocaust, would you continue to adhere to what is, in point of fact, an unrealistic and, not to be offensive, an imbecilic response? Frankly, it's nonsensical and rather immature, but that's just my opinion. You don't mind me having an opinion, do you?

"We are lost" The Captain shouted....

Un BE Lievable!

Woah! Way out of line in my opinion.

CMatt25 · #33 May 6, '12, 5:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by meltzerboy

What exactly does this issue have to do with the Holocaust? No, I don't mind your having an opinion, but I must admit to being curious about what you consider an offensive one.

Nothing. This issue can not begin to compare to the harm to society caused by the holocaust. It's comparing apples and oranges. Since I don't take issue with what the Catholic American Vice President Joseph Biden said in regard to stating his view, I might be offended if only I didn't find it's par for the course sometimes for people to do such comparisons here.

Elizabeth502 · #34 May 6, '12, 5:16 pm

From the USCCB website:

Quote:

Isn’t the Church discriminating against homosexual persons by opposing same sex unions?
To uphold God’s intent for marriage, in which sexual relations have their proper and exclusive place, is not to offend the dignity of homosexual persons. Christians must give witness to the whole truth and, therefore, oppose as immoral both homosexual acts and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons.
It is not unjust to deny legal status to same-sex unions because marriage and same-sex unions are essentially different realities. In fact, justice requires society to do so.

The legal recognition of marriage, including benefits associated with it, is not only about personal commitment, but also about the social commitment that husband and wife make to the well-being of society. It would be wrong to redefine marriage for the sake of providing benefits to those who cannot rightfully enter into marriage. It should be noted that some benefits currently sought by persons in homosexual unions can already be obtained without regard to marital status. For example, individuals can agree to own property jointly, and they can generally designate anyone they choose to be a beneficiary of their will or to make health care decisions in case they become incompetent.

What is the Church’s position on legislation to allow civil unions or domestic partnerships?On two different occasions, in 2003 and 2006, the USCCB Administrative Committee stated: “We strongly oppose any legislative and judicial attempts, both at state and federal levels, to grant same-sex unions the equivalent status and rights of marriage – by naming them marriage, civil unions, or by other means.”
In 2003 a statement from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith stated: “Every humanly-created law is legitimate insofar as it is consistent with the natural moral law, recognized by right reason, and insofar as it respects the inalienable rights of every person. Laws in favor of homosexual unions are contrary to right reason because they confer legal guarantees, analogous to those granted to marriage, to unions between persons of the same sex” (Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons, n.6).

CMatt25 · #35 May 6, '12, 5:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellipsis2

Woah! Way out of line in my opinion.

In mine too

CatholicBoy1957 · #36 May 6, '12, 5:57 pm

It looks as though it's double standards time from the double standardizers.

Sorry, but there's been plenty of times, on this forum, where someone compared being Gay, with being Black. Never mind that I, as a Black, consider it offensive, as though being Black is some sort of disorder. Now we have a comparison of being a Jew and being a Gay.

SaintPatrick333 · #37 May 6, '12, 6:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea

Can't believe we spend so much time on this issue. Of all the things to be concerned about, this doesn't even crack my top 1,000.

As Catholics we are called to oppose all sin. Turning your back on it or ignoring it makes you guilty by indifference. It is not acting in love and charity to watch people sin and say nothing. We can't force anyone not to marry, obviously, but we can at least try to reach them through Christ and stand against political actions that would support them in sinning (especially if it attacks our faith given us by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ).

Lokabrenna · #38 May 6, '12, 6:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatholicBoy1957

Now we have a comparison of being a Jew and being a Gay.

Well, both Jews and gays were killed in the Holocaust, some of those gays were also Jewish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle

http://www.jewishmemory.info/images/1-1999/1622/2.jpg

and some actual pictures:

http://andrejkoymasky.com/mem/holocaust/03/pinktr.jpg
http://www.hardenet.com/homocaust/pr...forfollcal.jpg
http://cghs.dadeschools.net/holocaust/pink_triangle.jpg

DaddyGirl · #39 May 6, '12, 7:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth502

Regarding this and your previous post, I find it hard to wrap my mind around the concept of choosing to withhold a righteous moral conviction on the grounds of "letting others live and let live." If one really believes that something harms society as a whole, I consider it cowardice, not prudence, to withdraw from personal witness on the grounds of not rocking the boat. That's a social reason, not a moral reason.
.

Many, many people think religion is harmful to society as a whole...and they may voice their opinions about it and write books about it and come here on CAF and write about it-- but they don't try to make it a law that you cannot be Catholic. They live and let you live as you believe. That's live and let live.

oldcelt · #40 May 6, '12, 7:28 pm

I thought long and hard before responding to this thread. Anyway, here it is:

I disagree with the VP regarding "Gay Marriage." Marriage has long been defined as the union of a man and a woman....that long precedes the HRCC.

Civil unions, on the other hand, I have no problem. Where people find what they prefer to call love is none of my business. Those unions have not one thing to do with the dogmas of the Church, and those who insist that they do are attempting to force their version of morality upon the populace at large.

If they ever attempt to force any church to recognize these unions, I would consider that to be a major affront to religious liberty.

Until then, I am not even remotely concerned.

John

JRRTFAN · #41 May 7, '12, 2:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by meltzerboy

What exactly does this issue have to do with the Holocaust? No, I don't mind your having an opinion, but I must admit to being curious about what you consider an offensive one.

That's the problem. Look, uh, I wouldn't participate in a Holocaust myself but who am I to stop you from what you think is alright. The problem is you don't connect the dots.

CatholicBoy1957 · #42 May 7, '12, 4:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lokabrenna

Well, both Jews and gays were killed in the Holocaust, some of those gays were also Jewish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle

http://www.jewishmemory.info/images/1-1999/1622/2.jpg

and some actual pictures:

http://andrejkoymasky.com/mem/holocaust/03/pinktr.jpg
http://www.hardenet.com/homocaust/pr...forfollcal.jpg
http://cghs.dadeschools.net/holocaust/pink_triangle.jpg

I'm not in favor of putting either to death because of their ethnicity or disorder. I am in favor of legislation against crimes against society, but it should not entail the death penalty for paraphilia disorders, even if any of the participants are minors.

But the Allies did impose their beliefs upon the administration in Germany.

Elizabeth502 · #43 May 7, '12, 6:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyGirl

Many, many people think religion is harmful to society as a whole...and they may voice their opinions about it and write books about it and come here on CAF and write about it-- but they don't try to make it a law that you cannot be Catholic. They live and let you live as you believe. That's live and let live.

Your post has absolutely nothing to do with the concepts of standing for principles, witness, and being a voice for truth -- regardless of that person's understanding of truth. Many, many people without any formal religious affiliation think that amorality and immorality are harmful to society as a whole. They voice their opinions about it and write books about it and come here on CAF and write about it. They don't try to make it a law that "you" cannot be an immoral or amoral person, nor that society "cannot" be immoral or amoral, but they strongly advocate for a moral and ethical society, and they describe explicitly what values and principles should be part of such a society. That's live and let live. It is also an indication of character, courage, and full personhood. Many such people are members of philosophical organizations and other movements without formal religious association.

That is also precisely what religious organizations do: they advocate. They don't "try to make it a law that you cannot be a person opposed to Catholic (or other religious) beliefs."

What you describe is not "live and let live" but political and "social" correctness, as well as (often) cowardice.

Have a nice day.

itullian · #44 May 7, '12, 6:52 am

how depressing

Scott_Lafrance · #45 May 7, '12, 7:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecoclimber

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...-marriage?lite

Vice President Joe Biden on Sunday said that's he's "absolutely comfortable" with married same-sex couples being granted the same rights as heterosexual pairs.

"I am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women, and heterosexual men and women marrying another are entitled to the same exact rights, all the civil rights, all the civil liberties," he told NBC's David Gregory on "Meet the Press." "And quite frankly, I don't see much of a distinction beyond that." (Msnbc.com is a joint venture of Microsoft and NBC Universal.)

I believe Obama just lost the election. With the evangelical vote 40% and those Catholics who support the magesterium of the Catholic Church and the call of Catholic Bishops to oppose homosexual unions and Obama's HHS mandate, apparently the Obama administration would rather receive the support of 4% of the population in this issue.

Vice President Biden needs to square his faith with the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

And this man calls himself a devout Catholic,