A question to all the Ukrainian Greek Catholics...

[ByzCathCantor]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

But what they need is self determination, patriarch or not. They do not have that and will not have that even if the Pope say it's OK to have a patriarch. The change in title is really not going to make much of a difference.

The synod needs to name all of their own bishops anywhere in the world. They need to erect dioceses overseas on their own authority, even in Russia, Poland, Bielorussia and Lithuania ... as well as in North and South America as needed.

They need to give their Bielorussian brothers a bishop or two, since Rome will not. They should give their Russian brothers a bishop, since Rome will not.

Rome is telling them that they do not have authority within their own traditional lands of the Union of Brest.

If Rome told the Melkites that they have no authority in Israel or Lebanon, how do you think the Melkites would take it? Rome will not do that because Rome would not get away with it.

This is the K'yivan Rus church, as long as they just see themselves and portray themselves in this limited fashion as people who want a patriarch for nationalist reasons, they have only themselves to blame.

Amen! Considering that the UGCC is already a global Church, the argument about territorial limitations has as much logic in modern context as suggesting that extensions of the Church of Rome be limited territorially to area formerly comprising the Papal States.

[Phillip Rolfes]

I've just been told that in both the U.K. and Ireland His Beatitude Patriarch Sviatoslav is in fact referred to as "Patriarch" during the Divine Liturgy.

[ConstantineTG]

Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes

I've just been told that in both the U.K. and Ireland His Beatitude Patriarch Sviatoslav is in fact referred to as "Patriarch" during the Divine Liturgy.

He is referred to as Patriarch anywhere within the Ukrainian Catholic Church

[Phillip Rolfes]

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

He is referred to as Patriarch anywhere within the Ukrainian Catholic Church

Thanks, Constantine. I had my suspicion that this was so. It's nice to have it confirmed. It seems that the only one who hasn't recognized the fact that the UGCC is a Patriarchate is Rome. Give 'em time. Rome is a little overly cautious some times.

[ByzCathCantor]

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

He is referred to as Patriarch anywhere within the Ukrainian Catholic Church

I recently received a personal copy of the UGCC's The Divine Liturgy: An Anthology for Worship.

In the Great Litany, the following petition appears:

Deacon: For our most holy universal Pontiff [Name], Pope of Rome, for our most blessed Patriarch (Major Archbishop) [Name], our most reverend Metropolitan [Name], our God-loving Bishop [Name], the reverend priesthood, the diaconate in Christ, and all the clergy and the people, let us pray to the Lord.

Not sure how the parenthetical (Major Archbishop) is supposed to be used or taken, but I was willing to bet $ that it is ignored in practice, and a Patriarch is commemorated.

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor

I recently received a personal copy of the UGCC's The Divine Liturgy: An Anthology for Worship.

In the Great Litany, the following petition appears:

Deacon: For our most holy universal Pontiff [Name], Pope of Rome, for our most blessed Patriarch (Major Archbishop) [Name], our most reverend Metropolitan [Name], our God-loving Bishop [Name], the reverend priesthood, the diaconate in Christ, and all the clergy and the people, let us pray to the Lord.

Not sure how the parenthetical (Major Archbishop) is supposed to be used or taken, but I was willing to bet $ that it is ignored in practice, and a Patriarch is commemorated.

If His Beatitude Sviatoslav officially becomes the patriarch, much partying will take place.