Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Moral Theology
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old May 7, '12, 11:29 am
Prodigal_40s Prodigal_40s is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2009
Posts: 198
Religion: Catholic
Default Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

I know that when I have a complaint locally, i.e. within my parish I complain to the diocese office (the bishop). However, today in Dublin, the organisation; led mainly by people known to the Vatican; known as the Association of Catholic Priests overstepped the mark by directly challenging teachings of the church that have been endorsed by the Holy Father. These teachings include celibacy for priests and the ordination of women. The secular media have reported it in Ireland and Great Britain and I've had enough. Can you please tell me how I can complain about this and who to?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 7, '12, 12:49 pm
Elizium23's Avatar
Elizium23 Elizium23 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 5,917
Religion: Practicing Catholic
Send a message via AIM to Elizium23
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

First you need to understand the difference between a Church teaching, that must receive assent of faith, and a Church discipline that can be easily changed by simple decree.

Ordination of women goes against constant Church teaching, and it is heresy to believe that a woman can be validly ordained.

Clerical celibacy is a discipline in Canon Law and the Latin Church. It is not a doctrinal teaching. You can see that it is flexible, because permanent deacons can be married, married men are ordained to the priesthood, and it is quite common in the Eastern Churches for married priests to be in charge of parishes and the like. Otherwise, priests make promises or vows of celibacy which they must uphold.

It is not a sin to protest against clerical celibacy, but it seems vain and hypocritical for a group of priests to do so, when they themselves are bound by vows or promises of celibacy. Vain, because it has been the discipline of the Latin Church for hundreds of years, and there is no sign that it will change, nor much evidence that it would make much of a difference to the problems perhaps faced in Ireland.
__________________
íViva Cristo Rey!
"A man who is well grounded in the testimonies of the Scripture is the bulwark of the Church." -- Saint Jerome
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 7, '12, 4:06 pm
Prodigal_40s Prodigal_40s is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2009
Posts: 198
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Can one of the apologists please advise me on this matter?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 8, '12, 7:38 am
Prodigal_40s Prodigal_40s is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2009
Posts: 198
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizium23 View Post
First you need to understand the difference between a Church teaching, that must receive assent of faith, and a Church discipline that can be easily changed by simple decree.

Ordination of women goes against constant Church teaching, and it is heresy to believe that a woman can be validly ordained.

Clerical celibacy is a discipline in Canon Law and the Latin Church. It is not a doctrinal teaching. You can see that it is flexible, because permanent deacons can be married, married men are ordained to the priesthood, and it is quite common in the Eastern Churches for married priests to be in charge of parishes and the like. Otherwise, priests make promises or vows of celibacy which they must uphold.

It is not a sin to protest against clerical celibacy, but it seems vain and hypocritical for a group of priests to do so, when they themselves are bound by vows or promises of celibacy. Vain, because it has been the discipline of the Latin Church for hundreds of years, and there is no sign that it will change, nor much evidence that it would make much of a difference to the problems perhaps faced in Ireland.
Thanks. I complained through the nuncio and I've requested the removal of individuals who have been responsible for heresy so I assume an investigation will be instigated. I've had enough of people who disrespect the law of infallibility thinking that they should remain within the church. Time for them to go
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 8, '12, 9:35 am
pepipop's Avatar
pepipop pepipop is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Posts: 1,804
Religion: catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

I just heard on the radio news, that no bishops or archbishops attended the conference.

Is there a list of the priests who are members of the ACP and/or which parishes - possibly I am being unchristian, however I'm not sure if their advice in confession would be as reliable as traditional priests that still refer to Rome in obedience, and for direction and guidance.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 8, '12, 10:12 am
StevieD StevieD is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2008
Posts: 454
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

The BBC and some other news media have stated that the ACP has 850 priest members. This is not the case. The ACP has never claim this number of member priests but they do not correct those who quote this incorrect information. Their MEMBERSHIP is claimed to be 850 but is open to religious and laypeople. I have e-mailed the BBC and suggest that others do the same. The ACP naturally prefer people to think that they represent a large number of priests but I think that the last definite claim they made was of "about 200" priest members (of over 2,000 Irish priests). As they have a history of being 'economical with the truth', the real number may be considerably less than 200. We are never likely to know. It is also notable that, from the comments made at the meeting, some members have already left the Church and so are not even Catholics let alone Catholic Priests.

It is also notable that hardly any young people were present at their Dublin meeting yesterday. Thank God.
__________________



Miraculous Crucifix of Limpias

Jesus Christ said, " This is my Body. " You say, " No. It is not His Body!" Who am I to believe? I prefer to believe Jesus Christ.-- Bl. Dominic Barberi
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 8, '12, 10:28 am
pepipop's Avatar
pepipop pepipop is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Posts: 1,804
Religion: catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieD View Post
The BBC and some other news media have stated that the ACP has 850 priest members. This is not the case. The ACP has never claim this number of member priests but they do not correct those who quote this incorrect information. Their MEMBERSHIP is claimed to be 850 but is open to religious and laypeople. I have e-mailed the BBC and suggest that others do the same. The ACP naturally prefer people to think that they represent a large number of priests but I think that the last definite claim they made was of "about 200" priest members (of over 2,000 Irish priests). As they have a history of being 'economical with the truth', the real number may be considerably less than 200. We are never likely to know. It is also notable that, from the comments made at the meeting, some members have already left the Church and so are not even Catholics let alone Catholic Priests.

It is also notable that hardly any young people were present at their Dublin meeting yesterday. Thank God.
Good point. I've visited their site but see no members names, numbers of members, etc..., mind you, I suppose no organisation would publish members names.

I agree, nearly 50% of the total number of priests in Ireland seems very high, even 10% seems too many.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 8, '12, 11:03 am
Prodigal_40s Prodigal_40s is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2009
Posts: 198
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieD View Post

It is also notable that hardly any young people were present at their Dublin meeting yesterday. Thank God.
That was gratifying and it was noticeable. I was watching the news and apparently the deputy minister, Martin McGuinness has been critical of "Rome" as he put it in not only failing to control abuse but also (from the UTV website) in silencing "progressive views of more liberal priests". My irony meter exploded while reading it. The former commander of a violent organisation who used terrorist tactics is now an ambassador for liberal moral views. Seriously!!!???
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 8, '12, 11:06 am
StevieD StevieD is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2008
Posts: 454
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieD View Post
The BBC and some other news media have stated that the ACP has 850 priest members. This is not the case. The ACP has never claim this number of member priests but they do not correct those who quote this incorrect information. Their MEMBERSHIP is claimed to be 850 but is open to religious and laypeople. I have e-mailed the BBC and suggest that others do the same. The ACP naturally prefer people to think that they represent a large number of priests but I think that the last definite claim they made was of "about 200" priest members (of over 2,000 Irish priests). As they have a history of being 'economical with the truth', the real number may be considerably less than 200. We are never likely to know. It is also notable that, from the comments made at the meeting, some members have already left the Church and so are not even Catholics let alone Catholic Priests.

It is also notable that hardly any young people were present at their Dublin meeting yesterday. Thank God.
CORRECTION - There are more than 4,000 priests in Ireland.
__________________



Miraculous Crucifix of Limpias

Jesus Christ said, " This is my Body. " You say, " No. It is not His Body!" Who am I to believe? I prefer to believe Jesus Christ.-- Bl. Dominic Barberi
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 8, '12, 4:13 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: June 24, 2004
Posts: 15,853
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieD View Post
... As they have a history of being 'economical with the truth',..
I like your phrasing of that. It reminds me of a previous pastor who was testifying in a workman comp case. He was asked if it was his position that the plaintiff was lying. He responded that the plaintiff tended to make a little truth cover a lot of territory.
__________________
I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live,
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 8, '12, 4:19 pm
mitex mitex is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2012
Posts: 544
Religion: Protestant Church
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigal_40s View Post
I know that when I have a complaint locally, i.e. within my parish I complain to the diocese office (the bishop). However, today in Dublin, the organisation; led mainly by people known to the Vatican; known as the Association of Catholic Priests overstepped the mark by directly challenging teachings of the church that have been endorsed by the Holy Father. These teachings include celibacy for priests and the ordination of women. The secular media have reported it in Ireland and Great Britain and I've had enough. Can you please tell me how I can complain about this and who to?

Thanks
Must we tell on everyone who disagrees with the Pope?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 8, '12, 4:28 pm
StevieD StevieD is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2008
Posts: 454
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitex View Post
Must we tell on everyone who disagrees with the Pope?
"We"??? You are not a Catholic, what has it got to do with you?
__________________



Miraculous Crucifix of Limpias

Jesus Christ said, " This is my Body. " You say, " No. It is not His Body!" Who am I to believe? I prefer to believe Jesus Christ.-- Bl. Dominic Barberi
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old May 9, '12, 1:24 am
Prodigal_40s Prodigal_40s is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2009
Posts: 198
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitex View Post
Must we tell on everyone who disagrees with the Pope?
Mitex, it's nothing to do with disagreeing with the Pope. It's contradicting fundamental Catholic teaching. There's a great misunderstanding of this. The Pope could be individually be in error but where there is a moral or faith matter that comes from the Ordinary or Extraordinary Magisterium, then that cannot be erroneous. I know that your church does not hold with that view but please research it and understand what it means. I accept your view as different but believe me, individual interpretation leads to differing views that restrain us in understanding. There is a huge theological school within the Vatican which ensures that we use intellectual engagement to arrive at these infallible truths.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old May 9, '12, 7:51 am
1ke 1ke is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: May 25, 2004
Posts: 24,276
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigal_40s View Post
Can one of the apologists please advise me on this matter?
If you want someone from AAA to respond, you need to pose this as a question in AAA. The staff apologists do not typically participate in the forum discussions.
__________________
Pax, ke

ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old May 9, '12, 11:02 am
Prodigal_40s Prodigal_40s is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2009
Posts: 198
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Complain about the Association of Catholic Priests - procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ke View Post
If you want someone from AAA to respond, you need to pose this as a question in AAA. The staff apologists do not typically participate in the forum discussions.
That's right. Slainte mate. I'm new here but yes, I saw that area of the forum. I'm happy though that there are people in here who feel the same about these liberals who clearly are at odds with the Holy Father's teaching and yet want to stay in our church. I actually find them very odd people
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Moral Theology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8304Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
5071CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4358Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: lsbar
4035OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: 3DOCTORS
3853SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3616Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3264Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3212Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3202Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3069For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Theresa DeSensi



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:24 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.