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  #226  
Old May 12, '12, 8:33 pm
thewanderer thewanderer is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
Of course not. I dont know why this is so difficult for all of us to show. There is a certain point every Mass where the people outside of the instruction of the Church do the SAME Gesture every single Mass at the exact same spot. It isn't a personal devotion, it isn't something you do with someone you care about and are at Mass with like your sister, it is something that is expected and done at the same point every Mass. To sell it as ok, or not forbidden by name, or spontaneous is not understanding what is going on. The church dictates the Mass to the people, not the other way around. You of course can hold your sisters hand but if you and every single person in Mass give a giant thumbs up at the consecration EVERY MASS, because you want to show joy and everyone in the parish is doing it ! That would be outside of the bounds. Same here.
If say on 9-12 2001 you were saying the our father at Mass and everyone was weeping then yes go ahead! Hold a hand, but every Mass every day of every week!? That is inserting something into the Mass that doesn't belong.

Football teams like to show unity and community by slapping each other on the backside.
Do you think this would be appropriate at the Our Father for Masses involving these team members? nope.

Yes, of course not everything goes. I'm really nit sure if you've actually read what I'vebeen saying. I've been saying that yes, there is an abuse going on, but holding hands during the Our Father is not in and of itself an abuse, so please don't talk about it as if it is always an abuse. I am not in ant way trying to claim that the abuse that many experience is ok. So I really don't understand why you seem to think that's what I'm saying. some people were disagreeing about holding hands and i thought it was because they were not making a distinction between the abuse and the innocent legitimate practice and for some reason some thought that meant I didn't think there was an abuse going on. That is not what I was trying to say.
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  #227  
Old May 12, '12, 11:36 pm
Moore11 Moore11 is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by thewanderer View Post
Yes, of course not everything goes. I'm really nit sure if you've actually read what I'vebeen saying. I've been saying that yes, there is an abuse going on, but holding hands during the Our Father is not in and of itself an abuse, so please don't talk about it as if it is always an abuse. I am not in ant way trying to claim that the abuse that many experience is ok. So I really don't understand why you seem to think that's what I'm saying. some people were disagreeing about holding hands and i thought it was because they were not making a distinction between the abuse and the innocent legitimate practice and for some reason some thought that meant I didn't think there was an abuse going on. That is not what I was trying to say.
In what context is it "ok" can you tell me how you think it is being done correctly?
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  #228  
Old May 13, '12, 6:20 am
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Irishgal49 Irishgal49 is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

I was at Mass last night and someone tried to grab my hand. I just shook my head no, closed my eyes and prayed. I'm sure they thought I was rude but I'm not being bullied into this.
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  #229  
Old May 13, '12, 7:02 am
adrift adrift is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by thewanderer View Post
Yes, of course not everything goes. I'm really nit sure if you've actually read what I'vebeen saying. I've been saying that yes, there is an abuse going on, but holding hands during the Our Father is not in and of itself an abuse, so please don't talk about it as if it is always an abuse. I am not in ant way trying to claim that the abuse that many experience is ok. So I really don't understand why you seem to think that's what I'm saying. some people were disagreeing about holding hands and i thought it was because they were not making a distinction between the abuse and the innocent legitimate practice and for some reason some thought that meant I didn't think there was an abuse going on. That is not what I was trying to say.
I am not sure if you are correct. The questions isn't if families are holding hands. It is about the practice of the congregation holds hands. When the Congregation holds hands, then it is an abuse in my opinion based on the fact that it is being unlawfully added to the Mass.
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  #230  
Old May 13, '12, 6:01 pm
EcceAgnusDei EcceAgnusDei is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by Irishgal49 View Post
I was at Mass last night and someone tried to grab my hand. I just shook my head no, closed my eyes and prayed. I'm sure they thought I was rude but I'm not being bullied into this.
I always keep my hands together at my chest (palms and fingers together, right thumb over left). This makes it clear that I am not going to hold hands and it would make anyone who tried to hold my hand clearly violate my personal space to do so. Once, however, I had the woman on my right reach across me and hold the hand of the woman on my left. It was rather odd having these women hold their hands right in front of my chest, especially when they lifted them right in front of my face during "For thine is the kingdom..."

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  #231  
Old May 13, '12, 6:49 pm
Diana Catherine Diana Catherine is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by EcceAgnusDei View Post
I always keep my hands together at my chest (palms and fingers together, right thumb over left). This makes it clear that I am not going to hold hands and it would make anyone who tried to hold my hand clearly violate my personal space to do so. Once, however, I had the woman on my right reach across me and hold the hand of the woman on my left. It was rather odd having these women hold their hands right in front of my chest, especially when they lifted them right in front of my face during "For thine is the kingdom..."

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Okay, that was totally rude of them.

I have seen others holding their arms the same way. I find it sad that this is going on and it is making it difficult for prayer to happen.
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Thus saith the Lord: Stand ye on the ways, and see and ask for the old paths which is the good way, and walk ye in it: and you shall find refreshment for your souls. Jeremiah 6:16[/i]
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  #232  
Old May 13, '12, 7:11 pm
EcceAgnusDei EcceAgnusDei is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by Diana Catherine View Post
Okay, that was totally rude of them.

I have seen others holding their arms the same way. I find it sad that this is going on and it is making it difficult for prayer to happen.
Well, in her defense, she probably thought it was rude of me to not hold her hand.

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  #233  
Old May 13, '12, 7:36 pm
Kielbasi Kielbasi is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

Holding hands during the our father is something which was borrowed from the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous.

It is really of recent vintage, AA started back during the Great Depression, I really don't think its offensive but it really should be something that is officially ok'ed before it is implemented.
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  #234  
Old May 13, '12, 7:51 pm
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CatherineOH CatherineOH is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

I'm a new convert. My mom is Methodist. Today, she came to mass with me. (mothers day)

As she looses her voice very quickly (she is elderly but fit) I knew singing the our father was beyond her ability at that moment. Right or wrong, It moved me to hold her hand. I seemed to be able to sing all the louder as well. (my imagination?)
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  #235  
Old May 13, '12, 7:54 pm
Moore11 Moore11 is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by CatherineOH View Post
I'm a new convert. My mom is Methodist. Today, she came to mass with me. (mothers day)

As she looses her voice very quickly (she is elderly but fit) I knew singing the our father was beyond her ability at that moment. Right or wrong, It moved me to hold her hand. I seemed to be able to sing all the louder as well. (my imagination?)
Hey, that is awesome. And that is how it should be used. Now if everyone helpd your mother's hand that would be awkward. I'm still waiting for red rover to send someone right over at the Lords Prayer.
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  #236  
Old May 13, '12, 8:01 pm
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beehumble beehumble is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

Rampant abortion, gay-marriage, freedom of religion under attack, worldwide apostasy of Christians, the Christian world splitting into Church and anti-Church, Gospel/anti-Gospel - I think people need to focus on and pray about more important things that present a clear and present danger to the Church.

God bless you.
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I will take Francisco and Jacinta [to Heaven] soon, but you must remain A While Longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me better known and loved.
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  #237  
Old May 13, '12, 8:04 pm
Moore11 Moore11 is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

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Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
Rampant abortion, gay-marriage, freedom of religion under attack, worldwide apostasy of Christians, the Christian world splitting into Church and anti-Church, Gospel/anti-Gospel - I think people need to focus on and pray about more important things that present a clear and present danger to the Church.

God bless you.
Yes, but some might think that it starts with a correct understanding and orthodoxy of what the Mass is......and isn't.
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  #238  
Old May 13, '12, 8:30 pm
mattkubes mattkubes is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

Quote:
Originally Posted by EcceAgnusDei View Post
I always keep my hands together at my chest (palms and fingers together, right thumb over left). This makes it clear that I am not going to hold hands and it would make anyone who tried to hold my hand clearly violate my personal space to do so. Once, however, I had the woman on my right reach across me and hold the hand of the woman on my left. It was rather odd having these women hold their hands right in front of my chest, especially when they lifted them right in front of my face during "For thine is the kingdom..."
Whoa wait, you mean almost broke the Pater Noster Prayer Chain ( 1969)? You do realise that would have invalidated the Mass, right? Good thing those ladies were quick thinkers...
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  #239  
Old May 14, '12, 6:12 am
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robwar robwar is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

Quote:
Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
Rampant abortion, gay-marriage, freedom of religion under attack, worldwide apostasy of Christians, the Christian world splitting into Church and anti-Church, Gospel/anti-Gospel - I think people need to focus on and pray about more important things that present a clear and present danger to the Church.

God bless you.
thank you! has any one bothered by holding hands in Our Father ever spoken to the Priest about their feelings on this? It should be brought up to the Priest to be delt with. No one can make you do something you feel is wrong and you shouldn't if you feel it is inappropriate
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  #240  
Old May 14, '12, 6:59 am
Diana Catherine Diana Catherine is offline
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Default Re: Holding Hands during the Our Father

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatherineOH View Post
I'm a new convert. My mom is Methodist. Today, she came to mass with me. (mothers day)

As she looses her voice very quickly (she is elderly but fit) I knew singing the our father was beyond her ability at that moment. Right or wrong, It moved me to hold her hand. I seemed to be able to sing all the louder as well. (my imagination?)
Welcome. I returned to the Catholic church about 3 years ago. I have Methodist family also. That was probably a very awesome moment to be remembered. It is just when others who are not so inclined to hold hands while praying feel pushed into it, it becomes inappropriate.
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God bless.

Thus saith the Lord: Stand ye on the ways, and see and ask for the old paths which is the good way, and walk ye in it: and you shall find refreshment for your souls. Jeremiah 6:16[/i]
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