This is why I'll never send my kids to public school

[LaughingBoy1503]

Originally Posted by heart4home

Did I say a Catholic family can not live in the world? No, I don't think I said that at all.

Actually, I think a Catholic family should be involved in the world....together!!!

What I don't believe is that it is wise for Catholic/Christian children to be out in the world alone, trying to live our their under developed faith, in a public school while the teacher's educate them all day, void of the word and wisdom of God. Add to that the exclusionary "clubs"/ bullying that start in first grade these days, the same sex couple acceptance that is now introduced in many school systems as Mandatory in Kindy, the teaching that masturbating is healthy, that contraception is necessary, and that abortion is sometimes the best choice, no thank you, not for my children.

The president of this country, just announced that he supports gay marriage. Do you not believe that the schools he oversees will do the same? Do you really believe that's where God would want your children spending an enormous part of their waking hours each and every day, even if it's at the expense of being indoctrinated with teachings that go against Him and His laws and teachings? You may have the upper hand while children are young, but believe me, by middle school, peers and teachers will have just as much if not more of an influence on developing what your child believes and holds to be true.



Oh and I had to laugh how you accuse me of something, by taking my post and only quoting one part, totally ignoring the part where I said that we should be doing exactly what you accused me of not doing......

Notice how I said...
We nourish them with the word of God and the Sacraments and we help them bloom and grow into strong healthy adults. Then when they have a solid foundation and full understanding of who they are in Christ, they can go out to be the light in the world on their own, but until that time it should be under our guidances. As adults we are to be the light in our children's world

So what is your opinion about parents who both need to work to support their children? Or parents who are barely getting by and cannot afford to send their children to a private Catholic school? Or say children of immagrants who have no real education themselfs? What should they do? Or are they just out of luck, with their children doomed to grow up corrupted for being sent to public school?

Im sure there are a lot of places God does not want his children to be exposed to. Parents can do what mine did to me. Tell them we did not really come from monkeys and hope it sticks. And explain why it is not okay for a man and a man to be together. And send them to Sunday school. As for the bullying, I was bullied somtimes and it is a good way to learn how to stand up for yourself. It should not be, but that is just life. But like I said in the past, I am old school

[PaulinVA]

heart4home, my kids are all older - teens and twenties - so I have seen the result.

They are not lambs being led to the slaughter. My kids are people who have worked through their faith, know what they believe, and can defend it.

We do not have the temperament to home school, and do not believe philosophically that home schooling is for us. We decided that, instead of paying Catholic school tuition, we would have another baby, as the Pope said in Humana Vitae that a sibling is the greatest gift you can your kids.

Our public school experience has not been bad. My kids have had to defend their faith (not in a hostile environment, but to their friends) and have learned why we believe what we believe. One friend has converted, another is going to a TOB series at our parish with the high school kids.

I have about 16 years of public school experience with kids, with about three more to go. I would not do this differently given the chance.

[heart4home]

Originally Posted by PaulinVA

heart4home, my kids are all older - teens and twenties - so I have seen the result.

They are not lambs being led to the slaughter. My kids are people who have worked through their faith, know what they believe, and can defend it.

We do not have the temperament to home school, and do not believe philosophically that home schooling is for us. We decided that, instead of paying Catholic school tuition, we would have another baby, as the Pope said in Humana Vitae that a sibling is the greatest gift you can your kids.

Our public school experience has not been bad. My kids have had to defend their faith (not in a hostile environment, but to their friends) and have learned why we believe what we believe. One friend has converted, another is going to a TOB series at our parish with the high school kids.

I have about 16 years of public school experience with kids, with about three more to go. I would not do this differently given the chance.

Well, it's good that it has worked well for you and your children and that you are confident in your decision. My children range in age from 24 down to 3 so I too know how things have changed and will continue to change before my youngest is an adult. My oldest by the way is a university graduate working in his profession and my next two are in university now.

Anyways, I know that many children do leave public school with their faith intact, but I strongly disagree with the argument that our children are called to fight the cultural wars. I think they are often forced to fight wars, they were never intended to fight.

[heart4home]

Originally Posted by LaughingBoy1503

So what is your opinion about parents who both need to work to support their children? Or parents who are barely getting by and cannot afford to send their children to a private Catholic school? Or say children of immagrants who have no real education themselfs? What should they do? Or are they just out of luck, with their children doomed to grow up corrupted for being sent to public school?

Im sure there are a lot of places God does not want his children to be exposed to. Parents can do what mine did to me. Tell them we did not really come from monkeys and hope it sticks. And explain why it is not okay for a man and a man to be together. And send them to Sunday school. As for the bullying, I was bullied somtimes and it is a good way to learn how to stand up for yourself. It should not be, but that is just life. But like I said in the past, I am old school

I think that we are all going to be held accountable for doing the best that we can, with what we have been given. Children can and will come out of public school just fine, faith intact, better for having gone, but I do not believe that purposely exposing innocents to spend great amounts of time under the influence of those who oppose or refute Christian beliefs is the best choice. Is it necessary at times? Yes.

Sure, parents can do what yours did and tell children that we really did not come from monkeys and hope it sticks. Sadly, look around our culture, Christians are falling away from their faith in large numbers and even those who call themselves Christian support many immoral teachings. Yes, learning to deal with a bully can help a child learn to stand up for them self but sometimes it can also damage their hearts and lead to life long problems. We don't throw our children to the wolves to teach them to run fast. The idea that we should put them in harms way so they can be tough, and survive in the real world, is not the teachings of Christ or the Church and yet many parents have their children returning to face bullies every day.

The Church certainly does support parents who use public school, BUT the schools do not support what the Church teaches. It's a conflict, that is only going to grow bigger and wider as our culture moves further and further away from Christian values and openly views immoral behavior as the norm.

[mini_me640]

Originally Posted by heart4home

Yes, it is possible that kids can come out of school with their faith intact and yes homeschooled / Catholic schooled kids do lose their faith as well. But when I stand before God, I want to be able to say I did everything possible to help them form their faith into a strong and deep faith without the secular influence chipping a way at it, while it was still being formed.

My job is to nurture and protect my children from the evil of this world until they are old enough to do it on their own. If you think that the immoral yet mandated teachings of public school are not evil, then there is really nothing to discuss. If you think they are, but that are children have to be exposed to them at 5, 6, 7, 8 well then we just disagree.

Not all public schools are the same. I live in a conservative, largely evangelical area and my many friends with kids in our local public schools have not had any significant problems with exposure to immorality in the school, particularly not at the elementary level. But at my own parish's school, the residing SEMINARIAN told a class of 7th graders that he masturbates regularly. Seriously.

[LaughingBoy1503]

Originally Posted by heart4home

I think that we are all going to be held accountable for doing the best that we can, with what we have been given. Children can and will come out of public school just fine, faith intact, better for having gone, but I do not believe that purposely exposing innocents to spend great amounts of time under the influence of those who oppose or refute Christian beliefs is the best choice. Is it necessary at times? Yes.

Sure, parents can do what yours did and tell children that we really did not come from monkeys and hope it sticks. Sadly, look around our culture, Christians are falling away from their faith in large numbers and even those who call themselves Christian support many immoral teachings. Yes, learning to deal with a bully can help a child learn to stand up for them self but sometimes it can also damage their hearts and lead to life long problems. We don't throw our children to the wolves to teach them to run fast. The idea that we should put them in harms way so they can be tough, and survive in the real world, is not the teachings of Christ or the Church and yet many parents have their children returning to face bullies every day.

The Church certainly does support parents who use public school, BUT the schools do not support what the Church teaches. It's a conflict, that is only going to grow bigger and wider as our culture moves further and further away from Christian values and openly views immoral behavior as the norm.

Experience in learning that not all people are good is part of life. Sending your kids to public school is not "Throwing them to the wolves" because they will have to deal with a bully at some time. We will have to agree to disagree there. That is why parents also need to teach their kids to be strong. Being Christian/Catholic does not make them seccont class citizens who cannot stand up for themselfs when bullied. They will hear and see bad things, but to say that they are being "thrown to the wolves" Is a over the top statement.

Ideally, yes it would be great if all parents had the blessing to be able to home school their children or send them to Catholic school. I dont think my parents are going to be condemmed by not doing the best they could for sending me to public school just because I was exposed to teachings contrary to Christianity. They taught me well enough that none of the seeds sprouted and I came out stronger and with more life experience than any home schooled kid. Why not forbid a child to watch any tv? Cartoons included because a mouse hits a cat over the head with a frying pan? After all, that is violence. Or forbid a child from reading anything other than the bible? Or play with other kids because one might be a bully? Wouldent those be the best things to do so your child is not being "Thrown to the wolves"?

Like I said I do understand where you are comming from, but kinda sorta understand where I am comming from?

[PaulinVA]

Originally Posted by heart4home

Anyways, I know that many children do leave public school with their faith intact, but I strongly disagree with the argument that our children are called to fight the cultural wars. I think they are often forced to fight wars, they were never intended to fight.

I think that we are ALL called to evangelize the world, in an age appropriate way according to our talents.

Removing faithful Catholics from the public sphere (in this case, public school) removes the authentic voice of Christ from that venue. These people, these fallen-away Catholics, these non believing protestants, these secularists, deserve to see the Gospel lived out as an example to them.

Who are are we going to let influence this generation? Are we going to remove ourselves from the fight and concede defeat, or are we going to fight for the hearts and minds of this generation?

[Schieffelin]

Originally Posted by mini_me640

Not all public schools are the same. I live in a conservative, largely evangelical area and my many friends with kids in our local public schools have not had any significant problems with exposure to immorality in the school, particularly not at the elementary level. But at my own parish's school, the residing SEMINARIAN told a class of 7th graders that he masturbates regularly. Seriously.

I grew up in a small, conservative protestant town in the South. Now all my classmates are the same ones supporting gay marriage on FB. These were the "good" kids in high school. They weren't getting into immoral things at the time--it's just that they've been brainwashed (subtly) by the public school faculty and they were never taught to think for themselves. And since protestants are mostly fine with birth control and divorce, it's only the next logical step that they would begin to embrace gay marriage.

I have no question that many of the Catholic schools are just as bad or worse.

[mini_me640]

Originally Posted by Schieffelin

I grew up in a small, conservative protestant town in the South. Now all my classmates are the same ones supporting gay marriage on FB. These were the "good" kids in high school. They weren't getting into immoral things at the time--it's just that they've been brainwashed (subtly) by the public school faculty and they were never taught to think for themselves. And since protestants are mostly fine with birth control and divorce, it's only the next logical step that they would begin to embrace gay marriage.

I have no question that many of the Catholic schools are just as bad or worse.

I didn't experience brainwashing in public schools. I have also taught in public schools. Public school faculty are pretty representative of the community, so in a liberal area they will be more liberal, and in conservative areas they will be more conservative.

The evangelicals in my area are much more conservative than most of the Catholics I know. In fact, the only "religious" people I know thaf support gay marriage are Catholic and one Methodist. My baptist friends and coworkers are strongly against it.

[heart4home]

I thought this was a timely article. I didn't get to see the documentary, but I'm going to see if it's available online.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...prison-system/

I'm sure it's over sensationalized, but likely some food for thought and holding some truth at least for some.

[Megan7]

Originally Posted by heart4home

I thought this was a timely article. I didn't get to see the documentary, but I'm going to see if it's available online.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...prison-system/

I'm sure it's over sensationalized, but likely some food for thought and holding some truth at least for some.

Thanks for this post!

Please post or send me via PM the link for the video, I would love to see.

If I find it, I will post it as well.

Thanks,

God Bless you,

PAX

[GodIsMyLight]

I know that I am new here but I still would like to voice my opinion.

I am 20 years olds, almost 21. I went to an all girls private Catholic school since kindergarten to 6th grade (not here in the US but in another country), for my 7th grade I went to a co-ed Catholic private school. However, my family and me moved to South Florida before my 8th grade started. So I went to public schools from 8th grade to my senior year in HS. I don't really understand why some Catholics want to exclude their children from the world. I am so grateful that my parents didn't homeschool me and din't even consider that option, my best years were probably when I went to public schools. Of course it is not a perfect world, and there were still bad people and bad influences, but if the foundation is good, then why doubt your children? To me it doesn't seem logical to exclude your children from the real world, they sooner or later will have to live in it and it is better if they know how to avoid certain situations.

I hope my message is not taken in the wrong way it is just my opinion
And sorry if the message doesn't make a lot of sense, English is not my first language! I am still learning

[heart4home]

Originally Posted by GodIsMyLight

So I went to public schools from 8th grade to my senior year in HS. I don't really understand why some Catholics want to exclude their children from the world. I am so grateful that my parents didn't homeschool me and din't even consider that option, my best years were probably when I went to public schools. Of course it is not a perfect world, and there were still bad people and bad influences, but if the foundation is good, then why doubt your children? To me it doesn't seem logical to exclude your children from the real world, they sooner or later will have to live in it and it is better if they know how to avoid certain situations.

Why do you think our children will not be able to avoid or handle certain situations?

It seems many need to realize that homeschooling DOES NOT EXCLUDE children from the world. My children are out in the world all the time. They socialize with people all the time. They just do so under our guidance. Our children also do things without us; for example they have been to the movies without us, they have gone out with friends to eat or to their homes without us, but we are very involved in who their friends are, how much time they spend with them and in the day to day,9-5 overseeing of their faith and academic education, instead of just an hour or two a day at most..

Homeschooled children are allowed to have friends and go out and do things. They socialize in other settings as well. Family rosaries with other families, bbqs with other families,Catholic homeschool co-ops, bowling, visiting the nursing home once a month, volunteering in our parish etc. etc. Our neighbors, many of whom are not Catholic, love our children and hire them often to house sit and watch their children. They are being light and a Christian example to them.

It's not about doubting our children, it's about wanting to be the one that oversees that their faith is being taught regularly, daily, hourly, not for a few hours a week, at Mass and during religious education. We are commanded in scripture to do so and while the Church does not prohibit or speak out against public education, it certainly states that the parents are the primary source....

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.......

2207 The family is the original cell of social life. It is the natural society in which husband and wife are called to give themselves in love and in the gift of life. Authority, stability, and a life of relationships within the family constitute the foundations for freedom, security, and fraternity within society. The family is the community in which, from childhood, one can learn moral values, begin to honor God, and make good use of freedom. Family life is an initiation into life in society.

This is what we do. We initiate our children into life in society.

2221 The fecundity of conjugal love cannot be reduced solely to the procreation of children, but must extend to their moral education and their spiritual formation. "The role of parents in education is of such importance that it is almost impossible to provide an adequate substitute."29 The right and the duty of parents to educate their children are primordial and inalienable.30

No substitute. Yes, we can certainly get help from schools, but the Church clearly makes i our responsibility.

2223 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues. This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery - the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the "material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones."31 Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children. By knowing how to acknowledge their own failings to their children, parents will be better able to guide and correct them:

and just to be inclusive......


2229 As those first responsible for the education of their children, parents have the right to choose a school for them which corresponds to their own convictions. This right is fundamental. As far as possible parents have the duty of choosing schools that will best help them in their task as Christian educators.38 Public authorities have the duty of guaranteeing this parental right and of ensuring the concrete conditions for its exercise.

I'm sorry, but in our Public Schools you have no RIGHT to know if they are Christian educators or if they even share your beliefs. You may ask, but they don't have to answer. No prayer allowed, no mention of Christmas or any other Christian holiday. Doesn't seem like Christian educators to me. There are gay, co-habitating, contraceptive pushing, abortion supporting people educating many children. This may be of no importance, to any of you, but it is to me. Again the church says we need educators that will help us in our task as Christian educators, not work against us in the area of values and morals, which public school does in many ways, whether any wish to acknowledge that point or not.

The Church clearly teaches it is our most important priority to teach our children well in their faith and it is our job to initiate them into society, and THEN when they are adults they will have been fully initiated ready to go off on their own with a fully formed conscience, into this ever increasing anti-Christian world. This doesn't mean they won't stumble, fall or doubt at times, but as parents we will have done our job to the best of our ability and be able to answer to God accordingly for our choices with confidence. If you feel you can do the same, utilizing public schools, that teach things as GOOD and TRUE that go against our faith, than so be it.

[Mickey]

Originally Posted by heart4home

Why do you think our children will not be able to avoid or handle certain situations?

It seems many need to realize that homeschooling DOES NOT EXCLUDE children from the world. My children are out in the world all the time. They socialize with people all the time. They just do so under our guidance. Our children also do things without us; for example they have been to the movies without us, they have gone out with friends to eat or to their homes without us, but we are very involved in who their friends are, how much time they spend with them and in the day to day,9-5 overseeing of their faith and academic education, instead of just an hour or two a day at most..

Homeschooled children are allowed to have friends and go out and do things. They socialize in other settings as well. Family rosaries with other families, bbqs with other families,Catholic homeschool co-ops, bowling, visiting the nursing home once a month, volunteering in our parish etc. etc. Our neighbors, many of whom are not Catholic, love our children and hire them often to house sit and watch their children. They are being light and a Christian example to them.

Yes. When someone hears that my child is home schooled....the first thing out of their mouths are questions about limited social interaction. In other words, most people think that home schooled children are socially retarded. This is a sad myth. My child is definitely not socially retarded...and I have never met a socially challenged home schooled child. In fact, the opposite is true.

[PaulinVA]

Originally Posted by heart4home

The Church clearly teaches it is our most important priority to teach our children well in their faith and it is our job to initiate them into society, and THEN when they are adults they will have been fully initiated ready to go off on their own with a fully formed conscience, into this ever increasing anti-Christian world. This doesn't mean they won't stumble, fall or doubt at times, but as parents we will have done our job to the best of our ability and be able to answer to God accordingly for our choices with confidence. If you feel you can do the same, utilizing public schools, that teach things as GOOD and TRUE that go against our faith, than so be it.

heart4home, you are missing the point. At least, you're missing my point.

While you are taking such care to bring your children up in the faith, the world is forming the conscience of their peers in the public schools. By the time your saintly kids with their well-formed consciences break onto the scene in their twenties, the battle is lost. Not for them, for others who need to see their witness.

I firmly believe that the world needs to see us, see our children. Not in little well-controlled doses, but in the sloppy, unpredictable every day life that we all participate in.

If you think that there are things being taught in public schools as being GOOD and TRUE but are not, and you are not doing anything to counter that, if you are abandoning these poor kids to the voices of liberal secularism, then that is wrong. This is not about OUR children. OUR kids will turn out fine. It's about all of the other kids.