In the friend zone

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by Pink_Lemonade

I think you need to use more discretion with who you see as a potential romantic partner. From the way it sounds, you would date any one of your female friends. No one wants to date someone who would date just anyone who will take them, and the women you've expressed interest in can probably tell that you are more interested in a relationship than in them as a woman.

That is why some of us have suggested that you take a step back, and stop looking at every female as a potential date. You should not be attracted to so many people, and if you are it is a sign that your intentions are wrong, because you are not attracted to who a woman is, you are attracted to what you think she can give you (a relationship, title of girlfriend, whatever). If you do want to eventually have a healthy relationship, you will need to be able to live without one first.

I think I should tell the 2 reasons why I do this.
1. It's because my female friends understand my complexities. None of my ex-girlfriends understood me. Two of them used me to advance their own ends and it was highly dishonorable.
2. It is to avoid dating male-to-female transgenders. A lot of them have had sexual reassignment surgeries and hormone treatments hence it is EXTREMELY difficult to distinguish them from actual women. Background checks, research and strip searches can only go so far especially with the sophistication of surgical techniques nowadays.

Hmmmmm, I am not attracted to multiple people, fortunately.

[mellowcalico]

Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady

Oh dear. I always hated the friend zone. And it happened to me A LOT. I have a lot of masculine interests, video games, sci-fi, fantasy, comic books, football, etc. Most of my friends are guys, but of course every now and then I would find one that I had feelings for. It always hurt when we would go to the sports bar and watch the game, only to have him get the bartender's number. But, as I got a bit older and guys wanted someone to settle down with suddenly the girl with all of the same interests, hobbies, and passions started looking better than the ditzy waitress or the girly girl who was annoyed by football and star wars. But it was too late, by then I'd found a man who saw me as a catch from the start.

Perhaps you're the same way? I know its pretty common for the guys girls type to be overlooked as "just a friend".

Regardless you're 22. Life hasn't even started yet. I wouldn't worry about your decade of failed dating because most of it happened when you were a teen.

I am starting to wonder if you are one of my few female friends! LOL. I was pretty much the same way and still am a bit of a "tomboy." I never had many feminine interests and still don't. I like SciFi, computer games, X-men comics, etc. On the flip side, I've gotten one pedicure in my life and I think two manicures. And I ran into the same, crushed on a handful of my friends when I was single... only to have them not be interested since I was "one of the guys."

So to the OP, it happens a lot really (the friend zone) to men and women too. Don't worry, at 22 a lot of us didn't have dates. Remember, you don't need a lot of dates, etc... you just need to meet that one "right" person. Good luck!

[Pink_Lemonade]

Originally Posted by Crescentinus

I think I should tell the 2 reasons why I do this.
1. It's because my female friends understand my complexities. None of my ex-girlfriends understood me. Two of them used me to advance their own ends and it was highly dishonorable.
2. It is to avoid dating male-to-female transgenders. A lot of them have had sexual reassignment surgeries and hormone treatments hence it is EXTREMELY difficult to distinguish them from actual women. Background checks, research and strip searches can only go so far especially with the sophistication of surgical techniques nowadays.

Just because someone understands you does not mean she will be interested in dating you. And it also does not mean that no one else will ever understand you, either.

As for your second point, I don't understand why this is even an issue or has anything to do with the thread.

[PatriceA]

Originally Posted by Pink_Lemonade

Just because someone understands you does not mean she will be interested in dating you. And it also does not mean that no one else will ever understand you, either.

As for your second point, I don't understand why this is even an issue or has anything to do with the thread.

The second point, maybe its time for the OP to think about the places he's trying to meet women if that is an actual problem.

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by Pink_Lemonade

Just because someone understands you does not mean she will be interested in dating you. And it also does not mean that no one else will ever understand you, either.

As for your second point, I don't understand why this is even an issue or has anything to do with the thread.

Good point. It does take time to understand my complexities.

It had something to do with the topic, as I'll explain.
The reason why I started dating early at 13 is because here in the Philippines, it is illegal to have a sexual reassignment surgery unless one is 18 and above unlike in certain Western countries. If I had been in a relationship with someone below 18, then I'm sure that the female is a real one and not some dude. But, since I failed in that regard, I'm having problems.

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by PatriceA

The second point, maybe its time for the OP to think about the places he's trying to meet women if that is an actual problem.

I tend to meet women in the likely places and even in a few unlikely places such as net cafes and online games.

[PatriceA]

Originally Posted by Crescentinus

I tend to meet women in the likely places and even in a few unlikely places such as net cafes and online games.

What are the likely places? Because the unlikely places, that definitely could be part of your overall problem.

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by PatriceA

What are the likely places? Because the unlikely places, that definitely could be part of your overall problem.

Asides from school, there's malls, parks, the National Library and even bookstores. Going to places such as bars and discos are very expensive and failing in those places are known to be more embarrassing.

[Pink_Lemonade]

Originally Posted by Crescentinus

It had something to do with the topic, as I'll explain.
The reason why I started dating early at 13 is because here in the Philippines, it is illegal to have a sexual reassignment surgery unless one is 18 and above unlike in certain Western countries. If I had been in a relationship with someone below 18, then I'm sure that the female is a real one and not some dude. But, since I failed in that regard, I'm having problems.

Am I understanding correctly that because you did not find someone when you were younger and could be sure she was actually female, you are now worried that someone you end up dating might actually have had surgery to become a woman and therefore only want to date your friends who you know have always been female?

I'm sorry, I am just still confused. If this is the case, I think that there is much more going on here than any of us can help you with.

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by Pink_Lemonade

Am I understanding correctly that because you did not find someone when you were younger and could be sure she was actually female, you are now worried that someone you end up dating might actually have had surgery to become a woman and therefore only want to date your friends who you know have always been female?

I'm sorry, I am just still confused. If this is the case, I think that there is much more going on here than any of us can help you with.

Something like that. The question is, how can I know if someone's actually a woman and not some dude who had surgeries as well as hormone injections? Note that here in Asia, male-to-female transgenders look more feminine than their Western counterparts. The most convincing though fortunately, are not found here in Manila but in Thailand where being a male-to-female transgender is seen as a traditional part of their culture. Still, I can't take that risk lest I date a dude.

[mandajane]

Crescentinus, I'm only a few years older than you, so I understand what you mean about growing up in a 'friends with benefits' generation. Most of my female friends were sexually active long before I would have considered such a thing, and most of my male friends have made lewd comments to me, hoping for sex, since it's "no big deal".

Taking a break from dating is a very good idea. It wasn't until I stopped looking, and prayed, telling God, "I can't seem to find a guy who wants anything more than my ladybits, so You find one for me." Lo and behold, He did. Just stop trying. Go do things *you* enjoy, and the women you meet doing these things are bound to share one of your interests!

As far as transgenders, while I could give you tips on things they usually don't change in the surgeries (hip to shoulder ratio, etc), you might want to just be polite, and mention that you are interested in having children. Transgenders are incapable of that, and they will usually end it over that issue, but in all honesty, they should disclose the fact that they've had a reassignment within the first date.

Lastly, you talk about being in the 'friend zone' and lament your position there, but this is disrespectful to the women in question. Women are not vending machines that you put kindness tokens in until romance comes out. Sometimes, they wont be interested, and they are not obligated to return your interest. Is it sad? yes. Is it heartbreaking when they reject you? yes. But I would venture to say one loses more honor by treating the women he is close to as if they owe him a relationship (and are therefor slighting him when they don't give him one), than in being rejected by these women.

Feel free to PM me anytime, Crescentinus, if you have more questions or comments.

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by mandajane

Crescentinus, I'm only a few years older than you, so I understand what you mean about growing up in a 'friends with benefits' generation. Most of my female friends were sexually active long before I would have considered such a thing, and most of my male friends have made lewd comments to me, hoping for sex, since it's "no big deal".

Taking a break from dating is a very good idea. It wasn't until I stopped looking, and prayed, telling God, "I can't seem to find a guy who wants anything more than my ladybits, so You find one for me." Lo and behold, He did. Just stop trying. Go do things *you* enjoy, and the women you meet doing these things are bound to share one of your interests!

As far as transgenders, while I could give you tips on things they usually don't change in the surgeries (hip to shoulder ratio, etc), you might want to just be polite, and mention that you are interested in having children. Transgenders are incapable of that, and they will usually end it over that issue, but in all honesty, they should disclose the fact that they've had a reassignment within the first date.

Lastly, you talk about being in the 'friend zone' and lament your position there, but this is disrespectful to the women in question. Women are not vending machines that you put kindness tokens in until romance comes out. Sometimes, they wont be interested, and they are not obligated to return your interest. Is it sad? yes. Is it heartbreaking when they reject you? yes. But I would venture to say one loses more honor by treating the women he is close to as if they owe him a relationship (and are therefor slighting him when they don't give him one), than in being rejected by these women.

Feel free to PM me anytime, Crescentinus, if you have more questions or comments.

I've seen many in my generation use each other simply for sex and then complain about it.

Good point. [:
But, my interests are not popular ones.

Question. What if they raise the "adoption" response and then attack me because I'm Catholic?

You have raised some very good points. On that note, mea culpa.

[mandajane]

As far as your interests not being popular ones, from your posts I would bet they run similar to my FH and I's. Just because an interest is not popular doesn't mean that others wont share it. You just have to become more active in that particular community. Even if you just join forums that discuss the topics online, you'll be meeting and exposed to new people.

If they raise the "adoption" thing, simply say that you would like to try having children naturally first. If they attack you because you're Catholic, they are looking for a fight, and to feel high and mighty about themselves. At that point in conversations, I usually excuse myself, and vacate the premises, or politely ask my guest to leave (if they're in my home).

I receive a lot of flak for being Catholic, because of the stereotypes that are perpetuated in the world. I make it a point to prove those stereotypes wrong. I act with kindness and compassion to everyone I meet, even if i don't agree with their lifestyle choices. I will not slight someone because they are transgender, or gay, or having lots of wild sex, what have you. I make a point to remind myself always "love the sinner, hate the sin". Having an attitude like this, and reacting calmly, but firmly and decisively, when someone tries to attack you about it, ensures that they come off as the one who is intolerant.

[Crescentinus]

Originally Posted by mandajane

As far as your interests not being popular ones, from your posts I would bet they run similar to my FH and I's. Just because an interest is not popular doesn't mean that others wont share it. You just have to become more active in that particular community. Even if you just join forums that discuss the topics online, you'll be meeting and exposed to new people.

If they raise the "adoption" thing, simply say that you would like to try having children naturally first. If they attack you because you're Catholic, they are looking for a fight, and to feel high and mighty about themselves. At that point in conversations, I usually excuse myself, and vacate the premises, or politely ask my guest to leave (if they're in my home).

I receive a lot of flak for being Catholic, because of the stereotypes that are perpetuated in the world. I make it a point to prove those stereotypes wrong. I act with kindness and compassion to everyone I meet, even if i don't agree with their lifestyle choices. I will not slight someone because they are transgender, or gay, or having lots of wild sex, what have you. I make a point to remind myself always "love the sinner, hate the sin". Having an attitude like this, and reacting calmly, but firmly and decisively, when someone tries to attack you about it, ensures that they come off as the one who is intolerant.

Hmmm, good point. [:
And what do you mean by "similar to FH and I's"?

Your approach is better than mine since I'm more prone to fight and debate with most opponents. Don't worry, I don't slight people often unlike back then.

[mandajane]

In another thread you made a reference to the spoony bard.

There were quite a few guffaws had on my end with that.