Civil partnership, medieval style: In the days when same-sex marriage was a Christian rite

[SeanF1989]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tian-rite.html

[Havard]

Originally Posted by SeanF1989

http://www.dailymail.co.uk

[SeanF1989]

Originally Posted by Havard

My feelings exactly!

[Uriah_Betrayed]

The Dailymail seems to be schizophrenic about if they are a Liberal news source or the voice of Conservative UK....

Then again I guess being faithful Christians isn't really part of the equation in the UK.

[Aelred Minor]

Repeat the lie often enough and people will start believing it, no matter how absurd it is.

[_Abyssinia]

I just look on Wikipedia about Saints Sergius and Bacchus and it says this:

Scholar John Boswell .. suggested that the two were even united in a rite known as adelphopoiesis or (brother-making), which he argued was a type of early Christian same-sex union or blessing, reinforcing his view of tolerant early Christian attitudes toward homosexuality.

See Criticism of Boswell:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelpho...ism_of_Boswell

The medieval church showed many examples of honouring close male relationships for their spiritual value, from Aelred of Rievaulx’s book, 'On Spiritual Friendship', to the love letters and poetry addressed by many bishops and abbots to their own beloveds.

In the Western Church, the practice of making 'sworn brothers' included liturgical rituals, celebrated in church with the Eucharist, and created legal ties of kinship between the families: an equivalent term for 'sworn brother' was 'wedded brother'. Same -sex weddings, in church, are hardly new, although the earlier meaning was not the same as current usage.

In 4th and 5th century Macedonia, and later in the Western church, there is archaeological and tombstone evidence of another way in which these relationships were honoured by the church: same – sex pairs buried in shared graves, just as many (opposite – sex) married couples were. A much later example of this is the well – known example of Cardinal John Henry Newman, who specifically asked to be buried alongside his beloved Aubrey St John (a request that does not appear to have caused any surprise to his community)."

http://lasalettejourney.blogspot.com...l-need-to.html

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Sergius, Bacchus, and the growing myth of “early Christian gay marriage”

Boswell’s claims have been completely debunked by David Woods, Robin Young, and Brent Shaw (to name the first three authors I found during a simple internet search).

Some samples of the conclusions of their debunking:

http://www.catholicvoteaction.org/am...dex.php?p=8289

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Gay Marriage: Reimagining Church History

...

Before becoming emperor, Basil was made brother of one John, a native of Achaia, although he had at first resisted entering into a relationship with an underling. According to Boswell's translation of the historian Theophanes Continuator, Basil "honored [John] with the title protospatarius and granted him intimacy with him on account of their earlier shared life in ceremonial union." The word for "intimacy" here is parrhesia, meaning the freedom- of-speech, the boldness, enjoyed by an inferior before his superior. And "earlier . . . union" is more readily translated as "previous association in spiritual brotherhood," the Greek clause reading: kai tes pros auton parresias metedoke dia ten phthasasan koinonian tes pneumatikes adelphotetos. Contrary to Boswell, koinonia rarely means sexual intercourse, even though, in Boswell's words, "Basil was thus what modern Americans would call a 'hunk.'" It is hard to see, by the way, how Figure 13, a reproduction of a manuscript illumination of this episode in Theophanes, bears out either Boswell's interpretation of this adoption ceremony as a "liturgical union" or his estimation of Basil's physical allure.

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft94...s/darling.html

[Mrs Sally]

"Brother-making" and same-sex marriage are not the same thing. The early rituals sound much more like peer adoption than a wedding. The homosexual agenda has almost been harder on male friendships than it has been on real marrige. So sad.

[gilliam]

As for the works of John Boswell, they have been debunked here and in other places several times. Basically, his is a misreading of the texts.


see:
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=4511

http://www.paratheke.net/stephanos/articles/adelphopoiesis.html

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=98234&highlight=John+Bo swell

http://www.firstthings.com/article.p...e=john+boswell+

[_Abyssinia]

Originally Posted by Mrs Sally

"Brother-making" and same-sex marriage are not the same thing. The early rituals sound much more like peer adoption than a wedding. The homosexual agenda has almost been harder on male friendships than it has been on real marrige. So sad.

Almost any examples of friendship between two people of the same gender (Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, etc.), in the Old Testament or New Testament or between Saints is made into a 'homosexual relationship' by some. It is bizarre.

[oldcelt]

Almost any examples of friendship between two people of the same gender in the Old Testament or New Testament or between Saints is made into a 'homosexual relationship' by some. It is bizarre.

I agree. While homosexual behavior was widely accepted, or at least winked at, I have never seen anything by the church that codified it in any way. Mrs. Sally's interpretation of "Brother Making" sounds very reasonable to me.

I will put forth one thing that may be controversial: Was Saint Paul's thorn in his side same sex attraction? We will probably never know, but his call to celibacy, as he lived, would line up. Mind you, I have absolutely no proof of this, just a thought that has often occurred to me.

John

[Jerusha]

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Almost any examples of friendship between two people of the same gender (Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, etc.), in the Old Testament or New Testament or between Saints is made into a 'homosexual relationship' by some. It is bizarre.

However, David was apparently chosen because he was eye-candy for Jonathan's father Saul, who was pretty debauched.

[coco2]

I'd say it is a bit far-fetched.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tian-rite.html


The Vatican better make a statement about this as soon as possible, before every media outlet runs rampant with it, which causes people to form opinions before hearing from the "other side".

[cjmclark]

Already being discussed here.

[Lost Wanderer]

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Almost any examples of friendship between two people of the same gender (Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, etc.), in the Old Testament or New Testament or between Saints is made into a 'homosexual relationship' by some. It is bizarre.

No, it's simply the shipping mentality that has seeped from the bowels of fanfiction culture. I should know. I associate myself with it. >_<;;;

[gam197]

or

originally posted by Abyssinia
Almost any examples of friendship between two people of the same gender (Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, etc.), in the Old Testament or New Testament or between Saints is made into a 'homosexual relationship' by some. It is bizarre.

originally posted by gilliam

http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...t=John+Boswell

The thread that was posted goes back to 2006

These two names keep resurfacing