Debate between Husband and Wife

sergius89 · #1 May 12, '12, 6:56 am

(This question references cannon 2366 to 2370 in the CCC)

My wife and I are having a debate. Based upon the cannons listed above, it is my understanding that the "marriage act" is meant to serve two purposes, the creation of life and as an expression of love between the husband and wife. By logical extension this tells me that if a married couple uses contraception then the act is sinful since they are blocking the creation of life. My wife's standpoint is that since a large number of Catholics use contraception then the act is not sinful. My standpoint is that since this is the teaching of the church then it must be followed to be a good Catholic. My wife's standpoint is that since it is not followed by a large number of Catholics then the idea that it is sinful is irrelevant since it is not practiced, at least by the Catholics we know.

Opinions?

ZoeyBdo · #2 May 12, '12, 7:00 am

You are correct, your wife is incorrect.

God said thou shalt not kill, yet so many on this planet do. Is it then not sinful? No.

Same premise.

Armor of Light · #3 May 12, '12, 7:05 am

I kind of hate to add to this, since The 'debate' has been settled so nicely in post #2..
So, I won't!! There is nothing more to say. Chalk one up for the husbands.

Sillara · #4 May 12, '12, 7:07 am

Doubtless your wife doesn't know us in real life, but my husband and I are Catholics. We are real people. And we are not contracepting. Just in case that helps?

april32010 · #5 May 12, '12, 7:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sillara

Doubtless your wife doesn't know us in real life, but my husband and I are Catholics. We are real people. And we are not contracepting. Just in case that helps?

this isn't real life!?

Pfaffenhoffen · #6 May 12, '12, 7:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergius89

(This question references cannon 2366 to 2370 in the CCC)

My wife and I are having a debate. Based upon the cannons listed above, it is my understanding that the "marriage act" is meant to serve two purposes, the creation of life and as an expression of love between the husband and wife. By logical extension this tells me that if a married couple uses contraception then the act is sinful since they are blocking the creation of life. My wife's standpoint is that since a large number of Catholics use contraception then the act is not sinful. My standpoint is that since this is the teaching of the church then it must be followed to be a good Catholic. My wife's standpoint is that since it is not followed by a large number of Catholics then the idea that it is sinful is irrelevant since it is not practiced, at least by the Catholics we know.

Opinions?

There are some confusions in your wife's thinking.
1st, the Catholic church is not a democracy.
2nd, people in the RCC are sinners like in any other religion. so, the sins of others (I am not saying that they are sinning, I say, sins of others) are not justification for my sins.

bmullins · #7 May 12, '12, 7:39 am

"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
― Leo Tolstoy

There have been many people wearing the label of Catholic who have been pedophiles, murders, rapists, and liars. That doesn't make any of those things right, or any less heinous. It means that they aren't really Catholic. Orthodoxy vs orthopraxy.

april32010 · #8 May 12, '12, 7:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sillara

Doubtless your wife doesn't know us in real life, but my husband and I are Catholics. We are real people. And we are not contracepting. Just in case that helps?

this isn't real life!?

TheRealJuliane · #9 May 12, '12, 7:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmullins

"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
― Leo Tolstoy

There have been many people wearing the label of Catholic who have been pedophiles, murders, rapists, and liars. That doesn't make any of those things right, or any less heinous. It means that they aren't really Catholic. Orthodoxy vs orthopraxy.

Well, if they have been baptized, then they are "really Catholic." They are bad Catholics, sinful Catholics, maybe even heretical Catholics, but they ARE Catholics.

**GEddie** · #10 May 12, '12, 8:02 am

Our LORD Himself said that "few" would find the way to life.

To me, that means that we cannot use the actions of the majority ( if it is in fact a majority), as a guide to truth or virtue. Only Church teaching can do that.

ICXC NIKA

bmullins · #11 May 12, '12, 8:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

Well, if they have been baptized, then they are "really Catholic." They are bad Catholics, sinful Catholics, maybe even heretical Catholics, but they ARE Catholics.

Very good point, I should have said they aren't following their faith instead of aren't Catholics. Thank you for your admonishment, my apologies.

TheRealJuliane · #12 May 12, '12, 10:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmullins

Very good point, I should have said they aren't following their faith instead of aren't Catholics. Thank you for your admonishment, my apologies.

Hey, I was lapsed for 20+ years and never would I have considered myself to be a Catholic during that period, but once I returned, I learned to my

great horror that had I died during that lapse, I most definitely would have gone straight to hell for my sins, since I was still a Catholic.

Our sacraments leave us changed forever, not just for as long as we acknowledge them, but forever.

Crescentinus · #13 May 12, '12, 10:40 am

Using argumentum ad populum doesn't make evil as good.

PatriceA · #14 May 12, '12, 11:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armor of Light

I kind of hate to add to this, since The 'debate' has been settled so nicely in post #2..
So, I won't!! There is nothing more to say. Chalk one up for the husbands.

No, chalk one up for Catholics, husbands or wives, that know the true teachings of their faith. This isn't a competition between husbands and wives, there are just as many wives that know the teachings as there are husbands that are all for contraception. Careful not to make one spouse better than the other.

**1ke** · #15 May 12, '12, 11:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergius89

(This question references cannon 2366 to 2370 in the CCC)

My wife and I are having a debate. Based upon the cannons listed above,

Just a technical point, the Catechism does not contain canons, as in canon law. They are referred to as paragraphs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergius89

it is my understanding that the "marriage act" is meant to serve two purposes, the creation of life and as an expression of love between the husband and wife. By logical extension this tells me that if a married couple uses contraception then the act is sinful since they are blocking the creation of life.

Correct. Each act of intercourse must be unaltered, objectively both unitive and procreative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergius89

My wife's standpoint is that since a large number of Catholics use contraception then the act is not sinful.

This is a logical fallacy. And not one that it takes much thought to find. By this logic, abortion is moral. After all, there are over 40 million a year, and some (misguided) Catholics participate in them.

Morality is not determined by majority. It is determind objectively, by God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergius89

My standpoint is that since this is the teaching of the church then it must be followed to be a good Catholic.

Yes, this is correct. The teachings of the Church require assent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergius89

My wife's standpoint is that since it is not followed by a large number of Catholics then the idea that it is sinful is irrelevant since it is not practiced, at least by the Catholics we know.

Your wife is being quite silly.