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  #61  
Old May 14, '12, 10:21 pm
ltwin ltwin is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by Wiljo2050 View Post
You Only partly said What I am Saying" Go ahead and speak your mind freely.even if people disagree!But should we legislate against people that dont have same values as long as their not hurting other people?Do we legislate against people that dont have same religion?Lots of people think they are right,If they obey our laws and pay taxes who is anyone?What about people that have serious issues with catholic church does that give them the right to appeal catholic marriage or abolish it because its against their beliefs?What I am saying are all people equal as any catholic even though its the true religon?Can we grant only certain laws and exclude others from the same law because we disagree with them?Havent we all fallen short?
As far as I see it, Christians who want to uphold the biblical concept of marriage are not denying rights to anyone. Until a few years ago, the concept of same sex marriage did not exist. Then, out of thin air, it became a fundamental human right all of a sudden. Sorry, but the burden is not on us to defend what society has always believed. It is on those who wish to change society and the churches to explain to us the need to change. I personally, am not convinced, but I'm sad to see that other Christians are all to willing to buy into a destructive "gospel of indiscriminate inclusivity" as Mark Lawrence, the Episcopal Bishop of South Carolina, has so eloquently called it.
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  #62  
Old May 14, '12, 10:27 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

I think perhaps some in this thread are exagerating a bit. While I am unfamiliar with the UCCs position on gay "marriage", it I am familiar with the Episcopalians position.
I am a former Episcopalian myself.

They do not practice homosexaul marriages, some practice same-sex unions which is signifacally different from Marriage. Samesex unions will never fly in my former diocese which is very conservative.

Let alone same sex "marriage".

July in General Convention a liturgy for OPTIONAL same sex unions, not marriages will be proposed. A handfull of very liberal dioseses may adopt that, but for the majority it will be business as usaul.
  #63  
Old May 14, '12, 10:56 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but I watched the Borgias on Showtime last night. The episode was set in Florence and a Dominican Savanarola was accusing those he dissagreed with sodomy, and these "sodomites" without proof of their sodomy were being stoned to death becuase they dissagreed with Savaranola on some point.

I know it's hollywood, but it reminds me of Baptist preacher Fred Phelps who condemns the US military of being f@gs by association. Everyone according to Phelps is a f@g, Including the church if they dont condemn with equal ferocity
  #64  
Old May 14, '12, 11:01 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

I just looked up Savanarola, and he was properly burnt as a heretic.
  #65  
Old May 15, '12, 7:55 am
Pdaniels2 Pdaniels2 is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

Most Anglicans and Episcopals support it. I heard that Episcopals even allow gay priests. Not sure how true that is.
  #66  
Old May 15, '12, 8:03 am
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Ohana Ohana is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

I think the words for and against are too polarizing. I don't know that anyone is "for" homosexuality, including some with SSA. It is a difficult life. I think a better term would be to have compassion for, and frankly, I think the Catholic Church as opposed to some Catholics, falls into that category.
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  #67  
Old May 15, '12, 9:44 am
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seanman611 seanman611 is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by The Holy War 11 View Post
Lutherans are very conservative aren't they? I'm pretty sure they're against it. I think Anglicans are for it, and I know Episcopalions are for it. Episcopals are VERY liberal, and they have a lot of hate for the Catholic Church.
That's a pretty narrow view of Episcopalians and not a very accurate portrayal of Episcopalians or Anglicans. Don't get me wrong, I don't have my head in the sand, however, this is not accurate.

Are a majority of clergy, bishops, and laity for gay marriage? The answer is yes, but there are about 8-9 Episcopal Dioceses, with a sizable amount of parishioners, who uphold the traditional view of marriage. Even in more liberal dioceses, there are sizable amounts of parishioners who uphold the traditional definition of marriage.

Is the Episcopal Church trending leftward? Yes, but I wouldn't broad brush the church as VERY liberal. It's no different than labeling the RCC as very liberal, after all, a majority of Catholics in the United States support the liberal agenda and vote democrat. One of the biggest liberals in this country, Nancy Pelosi, is a "Catholic," so labels aren't always accurate, are they?
  #68  
Old May 15, '12, 9:57 am
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by Ohana View Post
I think the words for and against are too polarizing. I don't know that anyone is "for" homosexuality, including some with SSA. It is a difficult life. I think a better term would be to have compassion for, and frankly, I think the Catholic Church as opposed to some Catholics, falls into that category.
Of course the church had compassion on those with SSA. But I don't think the word has sunk in with many individual Catholics.

I see that often on the moral theology board here in CAF.

Many if not most there on the threads condemn homosexuality outright and they never seperate sexual acts which are mortal sin with homosexual orientation, which is a temptation to sin but not sinfull in and of it'self.

It's all mixed together, which I think sinfull it'self. Not to mention unfair.
  #69  
Old May 15, '12, 6:55 pm
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by MidnightSun12 View Post
I'm fairly confident that liberal Anglicans and Lutherans support these things.

Often times, "christians" who support homosexual activity like to say that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was really the result of "inhospitality" when the angels came to the city. It's also mentioned elswhere (more explicitly) in the bible that homosexual acts will lead to eternal separation from God, but I've heard homosexual advocates argue that these passages are only referring to situations where "heterosexual men" are comitting homosexual acts (obviously they believe that homosexuality is natural and it's only "unnatural" when you're not experiencing sexual attraction to commit the act).

Obviously these are all garbage arguments. If homosexuality was not one of the major reasons for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, then why would it even be mentioned that the men of sodom were comitting homosexual acts in the bible?? The second agrument is grossly ingorant of humanity's fallen nature and that we are all tempted to sin on a very deep, internal level (and that this temptation must be fought with all of our might). Simply put, the view put forth in the second argument would translate into a belief that following one's venial desires is virtuous, and going against your own temptations must therefore be sinful (and I don't think satan could phrase an argument like this better, himself).

Really, this whole thing just makes me glad that I am a Catholic and that I have an infallible document, known as the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that can cast out all doubt. The problem is that when you believe in Sola Scriptura, and that your personal interpertation of the bible must be valid, then it leaves holes for abominable beliefs like this to exist under the umbrella of christianity.
Episcopalians and Scandinavian Lutherans do. German Lutherans (i.e LCMS and less uniformly conservative factions of the ELCA) don't. The ELCA is kind of 50/50 (laity) on gay marriage from what I can tell, but the hierarchy is all liberal. At least in my family, everyone who is Lutheran has at least somewhat conservative morals and is against gay marriage, but stays in the ELCA just because.
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  #70  
Old May 15, '12, 6:57 pm
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Swiss Guy Swiss Guy is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by seanman611 View Post
That's a pretty narrow view of Episcopalians and not a very accurate portrayal of Episcopalians or Anglicans. Don't get me wrong, I don't have my head in the sand, however, this is not accurate.

Are a majority of clergy, bishops, and laity for gay marriage? The answer is yes, but there are about 8-9 Episcopal Dioceses, with a sizable amount of parishioners, who uphold the traditional view of marriage. Even in more liberal dioceses, there are sizable amounts of parishioners who uphold the traditional definition of marriage.

Is the Episcopal Church trending leftward? Yes, but I wouldn't broad brush the church as VERY liberal. It's no different than labeling the RCC as very liberal, after all, a majority of Catholics in the United States support the liberal agenda and vote democrat. One of the biggest liberals in this country, Nancy Pelosi, is a "Catholic," so labels aren't always accurate, are they?
From what I know about history and American politics, wasn't the CC considered liberal until abortion became an issue? I mean with all of the union, social security, and immigration stuff.
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  #71  
Old May 15, '12, 7:42 pm
The West The West is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

Our Teacher taught that homosexuality is caused by either homosexual abuse during childhood or the mothers desire to have a child of a different gender impacting on the child's sense of gender (through the link a mother and child have).

Our Teacher taught that homosexuality requires new youth to be brought in to satisfy the cravings of the 'bull' homosexual and that once a boy had been broken in in this way, he became (to varying degrees), impotent.

The state of most passive male homosexuals became very hard to change and most men living this way had no desire to be healed and a very slim chance at that, unless helped by a genuine spiritual teacher.

Believe this as you will, but I think this demonstrates what a horrible and unnatural misery homosexuality is.

Giving official legal sanction to a such a horrendous phenomena seems like the sharp end of liberal naivety.

I would contend that it is possible that one day psychologists will uncover some of this and the otherwise well-meaning liberal reformers will be able to see the true human rights issue behind this.

Hopefully it will not be too late for many societies.
  #72  
Old May 15, '12, 8:42 pm
ltwin ltwin is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by The West View Post
Our Teacher taught that homosexuality requires new youth to be brought in to satisfy the cravings of the 'bull' homosexual and that once a boy had been broken in in this way, he became (to varying degrees), impotent.
With all due respect (and I am in no way defending homosexual acts), this is really odd and just plain creepy. It sounds positively fantastical. Do you have any proof to back up such a strange statement?
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  #73  
Old May 15, '12, 10:52 pm
The West The West is offline
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Default Re: What Christian Denominations Support Gay Marriage?

No. Any psychologist doing research into this sought of thing and coming up with conclusions like this would be hounded out of the profession, no question. Psychiatrists who think homosexuality is conditioned are already ridiculed these days.

I'm sorry I can't give you any damning evidence. But this what our teacher told us through his experience of trying to help homosexuals to heal their sexual trauma. He told us that sodomy damages the ability to get an erection. I'm sorry, I can't explain in terms of the physical workings in that area, I'm not well acquainted with that area of knowledge.

But you'd think it makes sense, wouldn't you. Imagine what the trauma of gay rape would do ones sense of masculinity and sexual health? And I simply don't think a merciful God would consign humans to this type of sexuality as part of nature. It has to have some external factor as a cause.

In western movies and pop culture there is sometimes an element of macho gay rape posturing threatening which betrays a side to homosexuality that the gay lobby don't want you to see. But it comes out through the film makers desire to be seen as worldly wise.

And yes it is creepy. I don't think it could get more creepy. Such is the world, unfortunately.
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