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  #1  
Old May 13, '12, 4:08 pm
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Koineman Koineman is offline
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Default Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

As some may know, I am currently exploring the Catholic Church, reevaluating it after being away for some 27 years as a Protestant. So this post is not meant as an attack but rather as a sincere question.

I went to a mass yesterday at a local church. I liked the mass a lot, and I especially feel drawn to Catholic worship at the mass. Unlike so much of what goes on in many evangelical churches today, the worship is very solemn, shows a very high regard for Christ, and focuses on God.

Unfortunately, I came across something that I, quite frankly, as a Protestant found disturbing. So I am bringing it up here to see if any of you can shed some light on this for me.

I found a small card with this prayer printed on it:

"O Mary bright dawn of the new world, Mother of the living, to you do we entrust the cause of life: Look down, O Mother, upon the vast numbers of babies not allowed to be born, of the poor whose lives are made difficult, of men and women who are victims of brutal violence, of the elderly and the sick killed by indifference or out of misguided mercy. Grant that all who believe in your Son may proclaim the Gospel of life with honesty and love to the people of our time. Obtain for them the grace to accept that Gospel as a gift ever new, the joy of celebrating it with gratitude throughout their lives and the courage to bear witness to it resolutely, in order to build, together with all people of good will, the civilization of truth and love, to the praise and glory of God, the Creator and lover of life. Amen." --Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 1995

I understand Catholic teaching about asking saints to pray and intercede for us, but when I read this prayer, it seemed like there was more going on than just asking Mary to pray for us; at times she seems to be entreated as if she were deity. The phrases that made me think this are the ones I boldfaced above. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old May 13, '12, 5:06 pm
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constantconvert constantconvert is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

That particular prayer doesn't bother me. We entrust the cause of life to her because she is a mother-- mother extraordinaire, and as such we implore her aid to the unborn. Jesus has given her special graces to grant to us, and when it says obtain it means to ask God for.

But as a former protestant I get where you're coming from. The one that makes my hair curl is Saint Alphonsus Liguori's popular prayer:

Quote:
Most Holy, Immaculate Virgin and my Mother Mary! To thee who art the Mother of my Lord, the Queen of the world, the Advocate, the Hope, and the Refuge of sinners, I have recourse today, I who am the most miserable of all.
I render thee my most humble homage, O great Queen, and I thank thee for all the graces thou hast conferred on me until now, especially for having delivered me from Hell, which I have so often deserved. I love thee, O most amiable Lady; and for the love which I bear thee, I promise to serve thee always and to do all in my power to make others love thee also. I place in thee all my hopes; I confide my salvation to thy care.
Accept me for thy servant and receive me under thy mantle, O Mother of Mercy. And since thou art so powerful with God, deliver me from all temptations; or rather, obtain for me the strength to triumph over them until death. Of thee I ask a perfect love for Jesus Christ. Through thee I hope to die a good death. O my Mother, by the love which thou bearest to God, I beseech thee to help me at all times, but especially at the last moment of my life. Leave me not, I beseech thee, until thou seest me safe in Heaven, blessing thee and singing thy mercies for all eternity. Amen. Thus, I hope. Thus, may it be.
I think what you have to realize, as a Protestant, is that the church is a people, an organism, not a book. So you have all kinds of devotions, all kinds of beliefs-- even within the pale of orthodoxy. Take what you like and leave the rest.
__________________
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  #3  
Old May 13, '12, 5:31 pm
pablope pablope is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koineman View Post
As some may know, I am currently exploring the Catholic Church, reevaluating it after being away for some 27 years as a Protestant. So this post is not meant as an attack but rather as a sincere question.

I went to a mass yesterday at a local church. I liked the mass a lot, and I especially feel drawn to Catholic worship at the mass. Unlike so much of what goes on in many evangelical churches today, the worship is very solemn, shows a very high regard for Christ, and focuses on God.





Quote:
Unfortunately, I came across something that I, quite frankly, as a Protestant found disturbing. So I am bringing it up here to see if any of you can shed some light on this for me.

There is a difference lingo...or Catholic speak which shows the wide divide with protestants. Protestants see the kind of language you posted below...and get troubled by it...precisely because you think we think Mary as a deity. It is just part of your upbringing..and no fault of yours.

Catholics would have no such trouble with such language, because we understand what is being prayed for. It is an intercessory prayer.


I will put in blue what is actually meant........

I found a small card with this prayer printed on it:

"O Mary bright dawn of the new world, Mother of the living,................ [b]to you do we entrust[/B].....(please take special care of, pray especially for.........) the cause of life:

Look down, (Keep watch over, please continue praying) O Mother, upon the vast numbers of babies not allowed to be born, of the poor whose lives

Grant (through your prayers and ours, May God grant) that all who believe in your Son may proclaim the Gospel of life with honesty and love to the people of our time.

Obtain for them (Thorugh your prayers and ours, we continously pray that they obtain....)
the grace to accept that Gospel as a gift ever new, the joy of celebrating it with gratitude throughout their lives and the courage to bear witness to it resolutely, in order to build, together with all people of good will, the civilization of truth and love, to the praise and glory of God, the Creator and lover of life. Amen." --Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 1995

Quote:
I understand Catholic teaching about asking saints to pray and intercede for us, but when I read this prayer, it seemed like there was more going on than just asking Mary to pray for us; at times she seems to be entreated as if she were deity. The phrases that made me think this are the ones I boldfaced above. Thoughts?
It is the lingo...Catholic speak!
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  #4  
Old May 13, '12, 5:33 pm
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

Koineman, Mary is a Queen.

We must always remember that the Old Testament is the story of God preparing his people to accept their Messiah, preparing Israel and the whole world to accept their King. If we look at the Kings of the Old Testament, we find that they appointed their mother to the position of Queen, and Jesus who is the King of kings is no different. An examination of the queens of the Old Testament show us the queen's role on the kingdom and therefor God's design for the ultimate fulfillment of those Old Testament kingdoms in the Kingship of Jesus Christ.
Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the kingís mother, who sat at his right. (1 Kings 2:19)
Bathsheba was King David's wife but was the mother of King Solomon. No one in the kingdom was higher than the king, yet Solomon pays homage to his mother and seats her in a throne on his right. This is because Bathsheba is not only Solomon's mother but she is also the queen.

The Hebrew word for queen-mother or literally "Grand lady" is Gebirah. We see references to the Gebirah elswhere in the Old Testament.
Jehu met the kinsmen of Ahazi'ah king of Judah, and he said, "Who are you?" And they answered, "We are the kinsmen of Ahazi'ah, and we came down to visit the royal princes and the sons of the queen mother."
(2 Kings 10:13)
This was after King Jeconiah and the queen mother, the court officials, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, the artisans and smiths had left Jerusalem. (Jerimiah 29:2)
In fact, the various kings throught he centuries are listed in the Books of Kings and the Books of Chronicals, and with every king, the king's mother is also listed.
In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, son of Nebat, Abijam became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His motherís name was Maacah, daughter of Abishalom. (1 Kings 15:1-2)
In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam, Abijah became king of Judah; he reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother was named Micaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah. (2 Chronicals 13:1-2)
Uzziah was sixteen years old when he became king, and he reigned fifty-two years in Jerusalem. His motherís name was Jecoliah, from Jerusalem. (2 Chronicals 26:3)
There are twenty seven references to the queen-mother in 1 and 2 Kings and 1 and 2 Chronicles. God is telling us who the mother of the king was because the mother of the king was a queen.
A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Revelation 12:1)
We can argue who the woman in Revelation 12 is but the fact that she wears a crown is clear. Only kings and queens wear crowns. The woman is clearly a queen. The woman is described as giving birth to a male child who rules the nations, and this description is consistent with a king and his mother the queen. The fact that the woman's son in Revelation 12 is "Caught up to God and his throne" leads most Christians to believe that the child is Jesus. The mother can only be Mary, and Mary is Queen.

As Queen of Heaven and earth, Mary has been granted very real power and authority. In fact, one of the roles of the Queen in ancient monarchies was to advocate on behalf of the people before the king. We see this ancient role of the Queen as advocate and intercessor again in story of Solomon and his queen-mother Bathsheba.
When Solomon was seated on the throne of his father David, with his sovereignty firmly established, Adonijah, son of Haggith, went to Bathsheba, the mother of Solomon. "Do you come as a friend?" she asked. "Yes," he answered, and added, "I have something to say to you." She replied, "Say it." So he said: "... there is one favor I would ask of you. Do not refuse me." And she said, "Speak on." He said, "Please ask King Solomon, who will not refuse you, to give me Abishag the Shunamite for my wife." "Very well," replied Bathsheba, "I will speak to the king for you." (1 Kings 2:12-14,17-18)
Mary shows herself the queen, fulfilling the role of advocate for the people and intercessor on behalf of the people before the king in Jesus' very first act as the Christ.
When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." (And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you." (John 2:3-5)
Jesus does not want to do the miracle of his own volition, but does so at the request of his mother, who advocates on behalf of the people. To a Jew living in a political monarchy, this behavior would have been obvious. We who live in modern democracies have lost the context.

Jesus is the King of kings, and his Mother is a Queen, fulfilling the role of advocate and intercessor. In fact, Catholic doctrine is that the grace won by Christ on the cross has been entrusted to Mary the Queen, and comes to us through the hands of Mary.

Mary does intercede for us before her son the King and obtain grace for us that we would not otherwise merit ourselves. That is Catholic belief.


-Tim-
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  #5  
Old May 13, '12, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koineman View Post
As some may know, I am currently exploring the Catholic Church, reevaluating it after being away for some 27 years as a Protestant. So this post is not meant as an attack but rather as a sincere question.

I went to a mass yesterday at a local church. I liked the mass a lot, and I especially feel drawn to Catholic worship at the mass. Unlike so much of what goes on in many evangelical churches today, the worship is very solemn, shows a very high regard for Christ, and focuses on God.

Unfortunately, I came across something that I, quite frankly, as a Protestant found disturbing. So I am bringing it up here to see if any of you can shed some light on this for me.

I found a small card with this prayer printed on it:

"O Mary bright dawn of the new world, Mother of the living, to you do we entrust the cause of life: Look down, O Mother, upon the vast numbers of babies not allowed to be born, of the poor whose lives are made difficult, of men and women who are victims of brutal violence, of the elderly and the sick killed by indifference or out of misguided mercy. Grant that all who believe in your Son may proclaim the Gospel of life with honesty and love to the people of our time. Obtain for them the grace to accept that Gospel as a gift ever new, the joy of celebrating it with gratitude throughout their lives and the courage to bear witness to it resolutely, in order to build, together with all people of good will, the civilization of truth and love, to the praise and glory of God, the Creator and lover of life. Amen." --Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 1995

I understand Catholic teaching about asking saints to pray and intercede for us, but when I read this prayer, it seemed like there was more going on than just asking Mary to pray for us; at times she seems to be entreated as if she were deity. The phrases that made me think this are the ones I boldfaced above. Thoughts?

I can see where the language of the prayers can cause issues but once we look at the role queens played in ancient civilizations the prayer will hopefully become a little bit easier to understand. In ancient civilizations the queen was typically the mother of the King and was given the power by the King to ask for and obtain whatever she wanted; especially if what she wanted was something that her King/son wanted.

Christ being the King of Kings makes Mary His Queen Mother, who -like the queens in ancient times- is able to ask and obtain what she wants and since Maryís will is never in opposition with her Son's, then it is no wonder she gets everything she asks of her Son. In short Mary gets whatever she wants from Christ who gets whatever He wants from the Father because the Father and the Son are One.





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  #6  
Old May 13, '12, 5:42 pm
snarflemike snarflemike is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

It appears that what you quoted is a truncated version of the prayer, at least according to what I found:

Quote:
O Mary,
bright dawn of the new world,
Mother of the living,
to you do we entrust the cause of life
Look down, O Mother,
upon the vast numbers
of babies not allowed to be born,
of the poor whose lives are made difficult,
of men and women
who are victims of brutal violence,
of the elderly and the sick killed
by indifference or out of misguided mercy.

Grant that all who believe in your Son
may proclaim the Gospel of life
with honesty and love
to the people of our time.
Obtain for them the grace
to accept that Gospel
as a gift ever new,
the joy of celebrating it with gratitude
throughout their lives
and the courage to bear witness to it
resolutely, in order to build,
together with all people of good will,
the civilization of truth and love,
to the praise and glory of God,
the Creator and lover of life.


God Our Father, Giver of life,
we entrust the United States of America
to Your loving care.
You are the rock
on which this nation was founded.
You alone are the true source
of our cherished rights
to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Reclaim this land for Your glory
and dwell among Your people.

Send Your Spirit to touch the hearts
of our nation's leaders.
Open their minds
to the great worth of human life
and the responsibilities that accompany human freedom.
Remind Your people that true happiness
is rooted in seeking and doing Your will.

Through the intercession of
Mary Immaculate, Patroness of our land,
grant us the courage to reject
the "culture of death."
Lead us into a new millennium of life.
We ask this through Christ Our Lord.
Amen!
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  #7  
Old May 13, '12, 5:48 pm
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Koineman Koineman is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by snarflemike View Post
It appears that what you quoted is a truncated version of the prayer, at least according to what I found:
It was all that was printed on the card I got at the church. The top of the text has the heading, "PRAYER FOR LIFE."
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  #8  
Old May 13, '12, 6:14 pm
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Julia Mae Julia Mae is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koineman View Post
. Obtain for them the grace to accept that Gospel as a gift ever new, the joy of celebrating it with gratitude throughout their lives and the courage to bear witness to it resolutely, in order to build, together with all people of good will, the civilization of truth and love, to the praise and glory of God, the Creator and lover of life. Amen." --Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, 1995
As a former Proe testant, myself, I agree that Catholics seem to go a bit overboard as far as Mary is concerned and Pope John Paul !! was a HUGE devotee of hers. If you read his biography you'll understand.

But I'm not uncomfortable with the bold part, after all, she obtained for the wedding party (through her Son) wine when it ran out as a human mother, why not obtain for us something so much more important as Queen of Heaven?

I gave my daughter to Mary, I figured she was a MUCH better mom than I could ever be and so I entrusted her to Mary's care. I have no idea what to pray for most of the time, but I know my Blessed Mother does and she will obtain for my child what she needs through her Son.

I converted in my 40s, BTW.

Just keep in mind that the level of devotion you have to her is up to you. The Church only requires you acknowledge the Immaculate Conception and, I think, her Ascension. But also bear in mind she is alive and well and Jesus made her your mother, too, from the cross He suffered on. So she is there for you, personally. We didn't make her Queen of Heaven, God our Father did that.
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Old May 13, '12, 6:15 pm
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by snarflemike View Post
It appears that what you quoted is a truncated version of the prayer, at least according to what I found:
It's also a translation, I'm sure he didn't write it in English.
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  #10  
Old May 13, '12, 8:37 pm
Todd Easton Todd Easton is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

In the parable of the pounds or the sums of money (Luke 19:11-19), Jesus Christ intimated that those who are faithful even in little things in this life will be entrusted with far greater things in the afterlife. The Virgin Mary was faithful in life in arguably the biggest thing in human history as the mother of our Savior and God, Jesus Christ, and in the afterlife when she got to heaven God entrusted her with the greatest things by making her the mediatrix of all His graces, subordinate, of course, to the mediation of Jesus Christ, sort of Jesus' executive secretary. Mary is obviously not the origin of God's graces but they come to us by her hands, in much the same way that "many signs and wonders were done among the people by the hands of the apostles." (Acts 5:12) When we ask her to grant us such a prayer request as you described, we are simply asking her to exercise her God-given authority.
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Old May 14, '12, 8:52 am
pablope pablope is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koineman View Post

Quote:
I found a small card with this prayer printed on it:


Grant that all who believe in your Son may proclaim the Gospel of life with honesty and love to the people of our time.
I thought I had to look at some old prayers....it looks like this was shortened.

This is usually written as......Grant, we beseech Thee, Almighty God,..........that all who believe in your Son may proclaim the Gospel of life with honesty and love to the people of our time.
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Old May 14, '12, 10:19 am
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom

1 Kings 2:17 And he said, Speak, I pray thee, unto Solomon the king, (for he will not say thee nay,) that he give me Abishag the Shunammite to wife. 18 And Bathsheba said, Well; I will speak for thee unto the king. 19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand. 20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; [I pray thee], say me not nay. And the king said unto her, Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.

in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen. in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah. in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:10 And forty and one years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother's name [was] Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom. 11 And Asa did [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD, as [did] David his father. 12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made. 13 And also Maachah his mother, even her he removed from [being] queen, because she had made an idol in a grove; and Asa destroyed her idol, and burnt [it] by the brook Kidron.

the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 But when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal of the house of Judah.

here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Nehemiah 2:6 And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,) For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time

the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.

Psalm 45:9 Kings' daughters [were] among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.John 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother
Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
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Old May 14, '12, 10:33 am
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

Mary is Ever Virgin

Read Exodus 13:2-12 Jesus is sometimes referred to as the "first-born" son of Mary. But "first-born" is a common Jewish expression meaning the first child to open the womb. It has nothing to do the mother having future children.

Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an *** thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem [him] not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty. under the Mosaic law, the "first-born" son had to be sanctified. "First-born" status does not require a "second" born.

Ezek. 44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it [was] shut. 2 Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. Ezekiel prophesies that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world. This is a prophecy of Mary's perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus.

Matt. 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; James is also called the son of "Alpheus." This does not disprove that James is the son of Clopas. The name Alpheus may be Aramaic for Clopas, or James took a Greek name like Saul (Paul), or Mary remarried a man named Alpheus.

Matt. 27:56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. Mark 15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary [the mother] of Joses beheld where he was laid. Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.

Matt. 27:61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. Matt. 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as "the other Mary."


Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. John 7:3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest. 4 For [there is] no man [that] doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. we see that younger "brothers" were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus' biological brothers.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Jesus was always referred to as "the" son of Mary, not "a" son of Mary. There is no evidence against Joseph being a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God. James and Joseph are called the "brothers" of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins.

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
the angel tells Mary that you "will" conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, "How shall this be?" Mary's response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.

Read Luke 2:41-51 in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.

read John 19:25-27 the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary. it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.
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Old May 14, '12, 11:27 am
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Julia Mae Julia Mae is offline
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

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Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom [/color]
I bet this was a really good post. I didn't read past the 1st line because of the formatting.
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Old May 14, '12, 11:54 am
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Default Re: Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

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I bet this was a really good post. I didn't read past the 1st line because of the formatting.
Is it better now?
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