Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Evangelization
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #31  
Old May 28, '12, 2:10 pm
cjmclark cjmclark is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2012
Posts: 444
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkollwitz View Post
Speaking as a kids' catechist, 12 year olds need maybe 1/3 of the faith knowledge an adult does in order to be an adequately informed Catholic. Adults in RCIA need to learn much more than the cradle cat children do.
LOL...this was the first thing that came to mind...



There's a separate thread going on re: whether or not the Church actually effectively catechizes. I think a very valid point was raised there - namely, that parents are responsible for raising their children a Catholics, not the Church. The Church provides the resources (in varying degrees, depending on your diocese/parish), but it's the parents' responsibility to educate their children and help them develop the lifelong habits (namely prayer, fasting, almsgiving, et c.) that go with a faithful Catholic lifestyle.

There has been a general (in the US, at least) lessening of interest by parents in their child's education over the past 50 years, and I think this has unfortunately extended to religious education. (Before other parents here jump down my throat over exactly how involved they are in their child's education, let me re-emphasize the word general.) I think if we as parents did a better job of educating our children, they would in turn seek to continue furthering that education down the road. But that means (for many of us) educating ourselves first.

RCIA for adult converts is a much more involved process than it is for cradle Catholics because it is assumed that cradle Catholics were actually raised and educated in the faith (like their parents promised at their wedding and again at the child's Baptism). Unfortunately, for many folks, this isn't necessarily the case, and it should fall to the catechists and the DRE to determine where the shortfalls exist. But that doesn't mean that the process itself isn't worthwhile. I think all Catholics should try to educate themselves to at least the level required of adult converts.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old May 28, '12, 2:15 pm
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: November 19, 2008
Posts: 9,120
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmac77 View Post
to become a catholic while the steps are necessary you must practically give away a year of your life doing it!
Same is true for conversion to Judaism.

We live in an unfortunately impatient and superficial world. There's no crash course in Catholicism, and actually becoming Catholic as an adult (or Jewish as an adult) is a real challenge, because there is so much of the essential teaching to be learned that cannot be learned even in a year.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old May 28, '12, 6:00 pm
fred conty fred conty is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2010
Posts: 5,437
Religion: catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmac77 View Post
Hey all!
Me and my dad were having a conversation today on evangelization and different ways it could be done, ideas and problems and such and such. We stopped upon the subject of becoming a Catholic. For evangelization we think its a little ridiculous, to become a catholic while the steps are necessary you must practically give away a year of your life doing it! We think that going through all the steps, baptism, reconciliation, confirmation are essential but maybe could be cut down to be spread across a couple of weeks rather than an entire year.

Imagine a protestant thinking about becoming a catholic and then looking at what it takes, my assumption is that many would be turned off immediately at the entire entry process.

Any thoughts, comments on this? I thought it was an interesting topic to post.

God Bless All!
It isn't that RCIA takes time, but there is something else that goes on....formation.
Formation is the object of any one who wishes to be in the true image of Christ and one with him.

It just takes time for the absorbtion of grace to form the soul.
A person can be informed but there is something else needed, the transformation of the informed person to the formed person.

The knowledge should change the person's viewpoint not only to christian but to catholic christian.

There are also previous dandelion ideas about the world and about God which must be extracted and replaced by the right seeds of the faith which also takes time.
The person must not only change in his mind, but also in his heart.

And then there are some ideas that are Catholic and brand new which also need to be accepted and incorporated in life.

Formation of a new individual in Christ, or Mary, is essential to start with. The information process will continue in a life long thirst that will go on.

In this brief article the degrees of Catholic are explained quite well.
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a54.htm
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old May 28, '12, 6:47 pm
zenith15 zenith15 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 434
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

And this is all very true. However, having the traditional cycle of RCIA drag on not just for a year, but for years and years and years, due to the annulment process and lack of tribunal members to oversee it in a timely manner. For those who are divorced during this process they can still join the church after making a confession, but for those who have remarried--even long before the thought of becoming catholic entered their heads--the wait is often interminable, filled with delays, false hopes, disappointments---I just can't imagine Jesus would want those who so desperately yearn to be fully joined to His Church to be kept from him for so long they could teach RCIA themselves and know more about Catholicism than 75% of the parish, all because they simply haven't time to attend to all the "red tape".
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old May 29, '12, 12:03 pm
zenith15 zenith15 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 434
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenith15 View Post
And this is all very true. However, having the traditional cycle of RCIA drag on not just for a year, but for years and years and years, due to the annulment process and lack of tribunal members to oversee it in a timely manner. For those who are divorced during this process they can still join the church after making a confession, but for those who have remarried--even long before the thought of becoming catholic entered their heads--the wait is often interminable, filled with delays, false hopes, disappointments---I just can't imagine Jesus would want those who so desperately yearn to be fully joined to His Church to be kept from him for so long they could teach RCIA themselves and know more about Catholicism than 75% of the parish, all because they simply haven't time to attend to all the "red tape".
ANd when I say "they" I mean the Church, not the parishoner.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old May 29, '12, 12:17 pm
cjmclark cjmclark is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2012
Posts: 444
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenith15 View Post
And this is all very true. However, having the traditional cycle of RCIA drag on not just for a year, but for years and years and years, due to the annulment process and lack of tribunal members to oversee it in a timely manner. For those who are divorced during this process they can still join the church after making a confession, but for those who have remarried--even long before the thought of becoming catholic entered their heads--the wait is often interminable, filled with delays, false hopes, disappointments---I just can't imagine Jesus would want those who so desperately yearn to be fully joined to His Church to be kept from him for so long they could teach RCIA themselves and know more about Catholicism than 75% of the parish, all because they simply haven't time to attend to all the "red tape".
It sounds like you have had a fairly rough time of it. Please forgive me for being blunt, but cases like yours (candidates delayed in RCIA due to processing of multiple annulments) are the exception rather than the rule. Simply put, most candidates don't have to deal with that kind of situation.

Is it a perfect system? Of course not, but it's one that works the majority of the time. It is unfortunate that you have had to deal with so many delays, but that's a fact of life of dealing with any bureaucracy, not anything specific to the Church. The lack of tribunal members definitely doesn't help, and it points to a wider problem - the lack of vocations in today's Church.

As far as those who have remarried and require an annulment for their marriage to be convalidated and "desperately yearn to be fully joined to His Church," the option always exists to live separately from their spouse, not engage in the marital act, and go to Reconciliation. I realize that this may be difficult for you as I believe you mentioned earlier that your husband is ill, but as I said it's not a perfect system that can account for every circumstance.

I am sorry that you are in such a difficult situation and I will pray for you and your husband. Please don't get discouraged and let anything as gravely human as bureaucracy dissuade you from finishing your journey to Christ's Church.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old May 29, '12, 3:26 pm
zenith15 zenith15 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 434
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

In fact, that was what was being discussed. My husband and I have been unable to participate in the marital act for two years now, and unless he gets a transplant, those days are likely over. EVen if he were to somehow get a transplant and be able to complete the act again, I have sworn to my church as has he that we would abstain from any such relations and live as brother and sister until the annulments were through and we were validly married. We have a young son so the church does not require that we physically separate (move out)--only that we vow to live chastely together. Everyone had agreed--all the RCIA folks, mt sponsor, the priest, a canon lawyer that was consulted, and I was going to come in at the next quarterly candidate's acceptance in July or August.

Then we found our priest is being transfered for medical reasons and we are getting a quite possibly very very conservative priest in his place at the end of June. I have been informed that, even after being told that all was approved and ready to go, now, it will all depend on the personal opinion of the new ppiest--non Canon law, etc, but personal opinion. I was just shattered. Even after agreeing to live with my legal husband as brother and sister--which we do anyway--and being told that would be ok--now once again it's "well, maybe not--we'll all just have to wait some more and have some more meetings and see. " This seems wrong to me.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old May 30, '12, 8:21 pm
CleverUserName's Avatar
CleverUserName CleverUserName is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: September 13, 2011
Posts: 436
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

It's not a race to the finish line.


RCIA is an educational process, yes. But it's a conversion process as well. It's also you becoming part of the community that is your local congregation, but most importantly: the Church that you are "joining" is the mystical body of Christ. If that isn't worth a year of your time, I don't know what is.


Sadie
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old May 31, '12, 9:07 am
zenith15 zenith15 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 434
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Again, it's not a year. We are talking about being told, after waiting 18 months ALREADY, that it may be another 3 to 4 YEARS, even though we live in a chaste relationship because of his health and we have a young child which dispenses us from having to move out according to Cannon law. I find it hard to believe, it a real world where 50% of people are divorced at least once if not multiple times, that my case is so exceptionally unusual and that almost all adult converts who come to the church in their late 40's have never been divorced and remarried.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old May 31, '12, 9:30 am
zenith15 zenith15 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 434
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

My personal feeling boils down to this------they need more people working on these things, period. NO one who wishes to enter the church, is willing to do and provide whatever the church wishes, including filling out enormous forms, paying large amounts of money (and I must insert here for honesty's sake that I requested due to being extremely poor to have the amount--which would have been 400 per annulment as I recall--reduced, and they DID reduce it, it's still a financial hardship for a family like ours) contacting ex husband's the whereabouts of which have not been known for over 25 years, trying to dig up witnesses who would remember any kind of detail of divorces from the very early 80's that I still know, and so on and so forth, ought to be left on the sidelines watching class after class after class graduate into being "real" Catholics, then hear that Cannon law says I CAN be accepted due to my current situation--from a current cannon lawyer/priest--and have everyone at the church ok it, and being so relieved and thrilled that FINALLY my chance had come--and then be told that because we are unexpectedly switching priests, well, who knows, now--may not happen at all.

I mean, either there are rules on these things or there are not, and if they are, they should be followed, not just be at the whim of one person or another. Cannon Law says that if you vow to live together as brother and sister--which we already do--and you have an underage child--you need not move out, and you can still enter the church and receive the sacraments as you await the annulment proceedings and marriage validation to progress.We don't hear much about this because most people would prefer to wait it out than "live as brother and sister"--but we are already IN that situation, and even if it CHANGED which is unlikely anytime soon we would STILL keep the vow--then I should be allowed to enter, from what I understand, read, and have been told by those much higher up than myself.

To prevent someone from entering the full Communion with Christ, and the full Grace of the Church for years and years because they don't have enough people to process the paperwork or because one priest's "feelings" on Cannon LAW are not the same as another's, is, in my opinion, cruel.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old Jun 1, '12, 5:39 am
CleverUserName's Avatar
CleverUserName CleverUserName is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: September 13, 2011
Posts: 436
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenith15 View Post
Again, it's not a year. We are talking about being told, after waiting 18 months ALREADY, that it may be another 3 to 4 YEARS, even though we live in a chaste relationship because of his health and we have a young child which dispenses us from having to move out according to Cannon law. I find it hard to believe, it a real world where 50% of people are divorced at least once if not multiple times, that my case is so exceptionally unusual and that almost all adult converts who come to the church in their late 40's have never been divorced and remarried.
I was responding to the original poster, not you. There is a woman in our parish who has been waiting 5 years for her annulment. My heart breaks for her. My heart breaks for you. I agree with Zenith that there needs to be more people working on annulments, to speed up the process.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old Jun 1, '12, 1:52 pm
jmcrae's Avatar
jmcrae jmcrae is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 7, 2006
Posts: 34,737
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenith15 View Post
And this is all very true. However, having the traditional cycle of RCIA drag on not just for a year, but for years and years and years, due to the annulment process and lack of tribunal members to oversee it in a timely manner.
The Tribunal has nothing to do with RCIA. There is no connection. The Tribunal takes as long as it takes - they have to be thorough, and they will not be rushed, not even for RCIA.

Quote:
For those who are divorced during this process they can still join the church after making a confession, but for those who have remarried--even long before the thought of becoming catholic entered their heads--the wait is often interminable, filled with delays, false hopes, disappointments---I just can't imagine Jesus would want those who so desperately yearn to be fully joined to His Church to be kept from him for so long they could teach RCIA themselves and know more about Catholicism than 75% of the parish, all because they simply haven't time to attend to all the "red tape".
You will find that the reasons will become clear enough in their own good time.

Meanwhile, it is Jesus' Church, and He is with you through the whole process. Jesus cannot be opposed to His own Church. It is He who gave us the "dumb rule" that no one may attempt marriage with more than one person.

The shortage of priests who can take time off from parish work to work on the Tribunal is caused by the same thing that causes divorce in the first place - a lack of ability among young people to commit themselves to their vocations - whether of marriage or priesthood - so while you are waiting for your case to be heard, pray for vocations to the priesthood, pray for good priests, and pray for married couples to be strengthened in their commitment to one another.
__________________
According to Quentin Tarentino, (Kill Bill Volume 2) Clark Kent is Superman's opinion of the human race. It occurs to me that, using the same logic, Jesus of Nazareth is God's.

Tiber Swim Team - Class of 2001
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old Jun 1, '12, 1:55 pm
AdamPeter AdamPeter is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2012
Posts: 628
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via Skype™ to AdamPeter
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmac77 View Post
Hey all!
Me and my dad were having a conversation today on evangelization and different ways it could be done, ideas and problems and such and such. We stopped upon the subject of becoming a Catholic. For evangelization we think its a little ridiculous, to become a catholic while the steps are necessary you must practically give away a year of your life doing it! We think that going through all the steps, baptism, reconciliation, confirmation are essential but maybe could be cut down to be spread across a couple of weeks rather than an entire year.

Imagine a protestant thinking about becoming a catholic and then looking at what it takes, my assumption is that many would be turned off immediately at the entire entry process.

Any thoughts, comments on this? I thought it was an interesting topic to post.

God Bless All!
Hi,

This is how I see it:
I'm 24 and thinking of becoming a priest. I have been a Catholic all my life and really have only begun to tap into the fullness of what that really means in the last three or four years of my life.
I think it's a lifelong journey - We're talking about a great gift, not something that should be rushed...Even after you entered the Church there would be a lifetime of learning and growing in faith to do...
__________________
Is 43: 4
You are Precious in My eyes and I love You

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old Jun 1, '12, 10:31 pm
zenith15 zenith15 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2010
Posts: 434
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcrae View Post
The Tribunal has nothing to do with RCIA. There is no connection. The Tribunal takes as long as it takes - they have to be thorough, and they will not be rushed, not even for RCIA.



You will find that the reasons will become clear enough in their own good time.

Meanwhile, it is Jesus' Church, and He is with you through the whole process. Jesus cannot be opposed to His own Church. It is He who gave us the "dumb rule" that no one may attempt marriage with more than one person.

The shortage of priests who can take time off from parish work to work on the Tribunal is caused by the same thing that causes divorce in the first place - a lack of ability among young people to commit themselves to their vocations - whether of marriage or priesthood - so while you are waiting for your case to be heard, pray for vocations to the priesthood, pray for good priests, and pray for married couples to be strengthened in their commitment to one another.

I don't think I spoke of anything at all as being a "dumb rule". I understand we have a shortage of laity for the process. However, when the shortage of laity keeps one from being accepted into the Church--NOT because the Church is being "thorough"--with that I agree, they should be thorough--then something is very wrong. When there is nothing at all in Canon law to keep me from being accepted and all was set to proceed and now it must all quite possibly grind to a halt because we are having a change of priests--I don't understand. Is it up to Canon law or to parish priest's opinion only? The poor lady waiting 5 years--my goodness, surely that is enough time for "thoroughness" by even the most careful of reviewers! To those of us in this situation, it often seems as though the Church wants to keep us OUT rather than bring us IN. IF one is willing to abstain from all marital relations until annulments have been completed and marriage is validly made in Church, and they have already been through the RCIA catechism a number of times, what reason is there to keep them from Christ's table any longer?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old Jun 2, '12, 6:14 pm
jmcrae's Avatar
jmcrae jmcrae is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 7, 2006
Posts: 34,737
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Turn off at entering the Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenith15 View Post
I don't think I spoke of anything at all as being a "dumb rule". I understand we have a shortage of laity for the process. However, when the shortage of laity keeps one from being accepted into the Church--NOT because the Church is being "thorough"--with that I agree, they should be thorough--then something is very wrong. When there is nothing at all in Canon law to keep me from being accepted and all was set to proceed and now it must all quite possibly grind to a halt because we are having a change of priests--I don't understand. Is it up to Canon law or to parish priest's opinion only?
This, you must take up with the priest himself, when he comes.

No one should be speculating about how he will react or what he will do. He's probably a perfectly nice person.

He does, in fact, have a say in the matter - he doesn't "have to" be a vending machine of sacraments. He can choose to whom he gives them. Generally speaking, most priests would rather give the Sacraments in error than not.

I think, though, what's happening is that people are just trying to prepare you for every possibility.
__________________
According to Quentin Tarentino, (Kill Bill Volume 2) Clark Kent is Superman's opinion of the human race. It occurs to me that, using the same logic, Jesus of Nazareth is God's.

Tiber Swim Team - Class of 2001
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Evangelization

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8304Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: alexsonofmaciek
5071CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4355Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: Marla Frances
4035OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: 3DOCTORS
3853SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3614Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3264Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3211Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3198Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: grateful_child
3068For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Holly Christine



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:14 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.