teaching Latin in Catholic Schools - Page 2

thomas jd · #16 May 16, '12, 6:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimothyH

If resources are limited and the choice has to be made, it would be better to have good catechesis than Latin.

My daughters were taught religion and theology from the Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia - AKA "Nashville Dominicans" in a parish school which does not offer Latin. The middle schoolers who go on to the local Catholic high school said that after being taught by the Dominicans, going to religion class at the Catholic high school was like going back to the fourth grade. The catechesis was that good.

The Dominican Sisters at our school run a two year chastity program based on Blessed John Paul II's Theology of the Body. Given the choice, I'd rather have a chaste and virtuous 17 year old daughter who doesn't know Latin than a daughter fluent in Latin and more worried about boys than her future or her salvation.

-Tim-

Until Latin is taught on a mandatory basis in the seminaries I see no reason to learn Latin over Spanish. Further to the point we are called to Evangelize and Catechise and the greatest need , in America , is to teach the immigrants.
Those newcomers are predomintally Spanish.

**ProVobis** · #17 May 16, '12, 6:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas jd

Until Latin is taught on a mandatory basis in the seminaries I see no reason to learn Latin over Spanish. Further to the point we are called to Evangelize and Catechise and the greatest need , in America , is to teach the immigrants.
Those newcomers are predomintally Spanish.

Chances are that immigrants are at least bilingual and therefore may be able to teach Americans more than Americans can teach them.

Your point is good about the mandatory Latin requirements in the seminary. However, learning Latin should be done earlier in one's schooling than in the seminaries. There is no reason why 5-yr olds can't learn a few Latin words. My Polish dad loved to say "Et cum spiritu tuo" when he took me to Mass.

clem456 · #18 May 16, '12, 6:52 am

Students in Catholic high schools should learn the skills that will best enable them to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, communicate with the sick, or generally speaking, spread the Gospel most effectively. In our area, if the resources are available, that would require learning Spanish. Resources at Cathlic schools are limited and decisions have to be made. At our parish only 35% of "so called" Catholics attend Mass and of those, about 75% contribute $$$$.

On second thought, a first priority should be to learn English properly! One of the biggest problems the Church in USA has is inability of our young people to communicate effectively. People are losing the ability to converse and to articulate the finer points of a discussion.

robwar · #19 May 16, '12, 7:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas jd

Until Latin is taught on a mandatory basis in the seminaries I see no reason to learn Latin over Spanish. Further to the point we are called to Evangelize and Catechise and the greatest need , in America , is to teach the immigrants.
Those newcomers are predomintally Spanish.

Yes I understand what you are saying but my both my boys had the once a week Spanish
K to 8th grade and got nothing out of it but Hola. they had a variety of teachers through the years doing different things and actually there is little one can do in a once a week language lesson.
They were also very turned of Spanish which is a shame since they have a hispanic background. But my daughter has a once a week Latin lesson instead of Spanish and she is getting more out of it than her brothers did with Spanish. With all the things our elementary children had to learn, if the language lesson is just once a week, it really should be Latin. Not only for the benefit of the basis for English (as well as Spanish, French, Italian etc) but it is the language of our faith. Those who have had Latin at the younger grades had a better time even taking up another language such as Spanish. Its a nice thought to have our children learn and start Spanish but what I have experienced with 2 different children in 10 years of "Spanish" it was a hugh waste of time. Again there is little one can do in these so called "once a week" language lessons so instead of wasting time and money, it would be better to use it on something that has multiple advantages
and it seems a shame that public charter school teaches Latin above a majority of Catholic Schools dabbling in Spanish in the elementary years.

robwar · #20 May 16, '12, 7:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProVobis

Chances are that immigrants are at least bilingual and therefore may be able to teach Americans more than Americans can teach them.

Your point is good about the mandatory Latin requirements in the seminary. However, learning Latin should be done earlier in one's schooling than in the seminaries. There is no reason why 5-yr olds can't learn a few Latin words. My Polish dad loved to say "Et cum spiritu tuo" when he took me to Mass.

I see the big benefits in my daughter. It helps understand the foundation and building blocks in English (and Spanish and French and Italian). The once a week in the elementary years
is more about foundation and understanding and pay big in the end.

TimothyH · #21 May 16, '12, 9:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas jd

Until Latin is taught on a mandatory basis in the seminaries I see no reason to learn Latin over Spanish. Further to the point we are called to Evangelize and Catechise and the greatest need , in America , is to teach the immigrants.
Those newcomers are predomintally Spanish.

I think they have been sent here by God to save US Catholics from ourselves and to save the US Catholic Church from itself.

Where I live, we have a Mexican guy who drives around in the most gaudy pickup truck you have ever seen, but he has a Our Lady of Gaudalupe airbrushed on the hood. I tried to ask him about it be he didn't speak a word of Engish and I don't speak a word of Spanish. Then I took my miraculous medal out from under my shirt and you would have thought that we had been best friends our whole lives. The Mexicans at my parish are always doing some kind of door to door evangelization with people praying in adoration and other's out in the neighborhoods. The level of commitment and devotion to saving souls is amazing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProVobis

Chances are that immigrants are at least bilingual and therefore may be able to teach Americans more than Americans can teach them.

This is exactly my point. Like I said, I think God has sent them here for a reason. Maybe the real need to learn Spanish is so that we can be evangelized by them.

-Tim-

Cider · #22 May 16, '12, 9:08 am

Yes, I think Latin should be a required course in Catholic schools.

Cider · #23 May 16, '12, 9:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas jd

Until Latin is taught on a mandatory basis in the seminaries I see no reason to learn Latin over Spanish. Further to the point we are called to Evangelize and Catechise and the greatest need , in America , is to teach the immigrants.
Those newcomers are predomintally Spanish.

Spanish speakers are predominately Catholic already.

**ProVobis** · #24 May 16, '12, 9:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cider

Spanish speakers are predominately Catholic already.

As are Polish and Italian speakers. Good languages for Catholics to learn as well as Ecclesiastical Latin.

**ProVobis** · #25 May 16, '12, 9:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by robwar

I see the big benefits in my daughter. It helps understand the foundation and building blocks in English (and Spanish and French and Italian). The once a week in the elementary years
is more about foundation and understanding and pay big in the end.

Supposedly improves SAT scores as well, something Americans can definitely use.

http://salvetediscipuli.wordpress.co...al-sat-scores/

clem456 · #26 May 16, '12, 9:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimothyH

I think they have been sent here by God to save US Catholics from ourselves and to save the US Catholic Church from itself.

Where I live, we have a Mexican guy who drives around in the most gaudy pickup truck you have ever seen, but he has a Our Lady of Gaudalupe airbrushed on the hood. I tried to ask him about it be he didn't speak a word of Engish and I don't speak a word of Spanish. Then I took my miraculous medal out from under my shirt and you would have thought that we had been best friends our whole lives. The Mexicans at my parish are always doing some kind of door to door evangelization with people praying in adoration and other's out in the neighborhoods. The level of commitment and devotion to saving souls is amazing.

This is exactly my point. Like I said, I think God has sent them here for a reason. Maybe the real need to learn Spanish is so that we can be evangelized by them.

-Tim-

Yes it would be a very good thing in our community for the kids to learn spanish. The Hispanics in our parish have enriched the parish immensely. They have strong families, generally speaking. They are very devoted: nothing they do in litrugy is half-baked. At the feast of St Paul our parish patron, they have a procession down the main street of our city, with streets blocked, in full traditional costume with drums,shakers, and beads. They stop in front of church and do a ritual dance for a half hour, then process in with the drums etc (yes, some of you traditionalists would have a stroke). We do bilingual hymns with guitars and stand up bass, horns, everything, and readings.,Then at offertory out come the drums for the procession of the gifts. Just before dismissal they gather in front of the statue of St Paul and do a Mexican hymn. Mind you this is not just at Guadalupe, which they also have a huge devotion to, this is for St Paul, the parish patron in a 130 year old German descent parish.
On Good Friday there is a procession through the streets of the community with the cross,and on of the Spanish young men will hang from it. They have an inspired witness that was missing in our parish.

The Hispanic community brought 5 new RCIA candidates into the Catholic Church at Easter.

So Timothy, you are 100% correct, they are evangelizing us. Actually it works both ways, but they have energized the parish and really challenged some entrenched bad attitudes about what what is means to be Catholic.

Baelor · #27 May 16, '12, 10:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by clem456

Students in Catholic high schools should learn the skills that will best enable them to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, communicate with the sick, or generally speaking, spread the Gospel most effectively.

Not everyone is called to the same path in life. Not everyone needs to feed the hungry etc. in order to work God's will. Furthermore, this is not an either/or situation.

It remains that the language of the Church is Latin. For a Catholic school not to teach Latin is problematic on that basis alone.

Furthermore, Latin and Greek literature (Greek should also be required) are so seminal in the strictest sense (from semen, seminis) that to be unfamiliar with them is to be unfamiliar with western civilization.

Baelor · #28 May 16, '12, 10:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by clem456

Students in Catholic high schools should learn the skills that will best enable them to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, communicate with the sick, or generally speaking, spread the Gospel most effectively.

Not everyone is called to the same path in life. Not everyone needs to feed the hungry etc. in order to work God's will. Furthermore, this is not an either/or situation.

It remains that the language of the Church is Latin. For a Catholic school not to teach Latin is problematic on that basis alone.

Furthermore, Latin and Greek literature (Greek should also be required) are so seminal in the strictest sense (from semen, seminis) that to be unfamiliar with them is to be unfamiliar with western civilization.

Megan7 · #29 May 17, '12, 6:11 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by robwar

My daughter attends an elementary charter school. Instead of teaching the usual once a week Spanish, she has Latin lesson once a week. This is taught because Latin is a basis for many of our words and language. Her brothers who have always attended Catholic schools never had Latin. While a number of Catholic HS do offer Latin, do you think our Catholic elementary schools should teach Latin not just as a basis for our English language but the language of our faith? Instead of the once a week Spanish have Latin? I am amazed from what my daughter has had how many of our words are Latin based, it is on our money, flags, mottos and the start of a classic education. Do you think it is a good idea? Have you seen it taught at the elementary level? The school she goes to uses Rosetta stone to do Latin. Please be polite in responses.

I wish I had taken Latin!

I had French. Latin would have definitely helped out a lot!!

Thanks for the thread!

PAX

floresco · #30 May 17, '12, 11:47 am

My youngest son started school in grade 4 after homeschooling for the younger grades. His classmates had been doing French since grade I but he caught up with them quickly and was soon one of the top French students in the class. Even though he had not done French previously, he had been doing Latin and this made this progress possible.

Similarly, students who learn Latin will find learning Spanish far easier and quicker than those who have not because Spanish is very closely related to Latin. If you think children should learn Spanish, then Latin is still a good subject to study.