Amazing Grace innapropriate for Church? - Page 3

cessnawag · #31 May 16, '12, 4:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessnawag

It has something to do with the lyric- "saved" a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can't remember what)

I think it's because protestants say once your saved you cant be unsaved. Whereas catholics say it depends on the state of your soul at dead.

RosalieM · #32 May 16, '12, 4:29 pm

And, come to think of it, when I returned to the Church, after my first confession in years, that song played in the church's bell tower.

SonCatcher · #33 May 16, '12, 4:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessnawag

It has something to do with the lyric- "saved" a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can't remember what)

"Saved and set me free" is the alternate line.

It doesn't really change the meaning, just makes it easier for those who don't like to say "wretch" and more difficult for those who have the original lyrics stuck in their heads.

On the subject of "appropriateness", any song that faithfully represents Scripture or is compatible with Catholic theology can be appropriate.

Brendan · #34 May 16, '12, 4:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

I wonder why? Jesus did come to save us and the guy who wrote it was a wretch, in his own mind, consumed with guilt and deserving of hell. Which is why he thought God's Grace so amazing. I agree with him.

Yes, but it is more in line with the Calvinistic concept of Total Damnation, vs the Catholic understanding of the intrinsic goodness of humanity ( Created in the image and likeness of God).

I'm not saying that the lyrics are wrong when properly understood, Newton was an Anglican, so his understanding of sin is probably closer to our own than a Calvanisitic interpretation. But even so, we can probably all agree that fully Catholic theology clearly stated are better in a hymn.

**pnewton** · #35 May 16, '12, 4:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marysann

This question has been asked before in this forum.

An interesting point here is that this was actually one of the first threads here,back in 2004 and Karl Keating even weighed in. I guess he had time to play with the new toy back then. For me, the song is beloved at my parish, sang with gusto, and it does not present any problematic issue theologically. I can see where the lyrics might be misleading in a parish where a strong sacramental theology is not taught.

I use the song in Mass several times a year.

**ready** · #36 May 16, '12, 4:35 pm

Michael Voris form RealCatholicTV explained how some of the words are heretical.

ksalek · #37 May 16, '12, 4:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacarandaPurple

Because people are stupid....sorry, that's really all I've got.

I mean, honestly, considering the heretical OCP tripe in our hymnals, THIS is what people get upset about?!

ksalek · #38 May 16, '12, 4:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacarandaPurple

Because people are stupid....sorry, that's really all I've got.

I mean, honestly, considering the heretical OCP tripe in our hymnals, THIS is what people get upset about?!

I'm not particularly fond of much that is in the OCP hymnal and would like to see my parish using something else, but what? Which are the heretical songs in the hymnal? What is the best Catholic hymnal out there now that corresponds to the changing messages of the Sunday readings and the changing celebrations of various holy days?

triumphguy · #39 May 16, '12, 4:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessnawag

It has something to do with the lyric- "saved" a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can't remember what)

I think it's been changed to "saved and set me free"

People don't like to think of themselves as wretches any more.

meltzerboy · #40 May 16, '12, 4:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessnawag

It has something to do with the lyric- "saved" a wrech like me. We have sung it in our church and the word is changed to something else (with I can't remember what)

I've heard singers, such as Paul Robeson, change the lyric to "saved a soul like me." Regardless, it's probably not appropriate for the synagogue.

Diana Catherine · #41 May 16, '12, 4:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

I wonder why? Jesus did come to save us and the guy who wrote it was a wretch, in his own mind, consumed with guilt and deserving of hell. Which is why he thought God's Grace so amazing. I agree with him.

I believe it is because the saving that he is talking about in the song is "once saved, always saved." That differs from Catholic theology. It is a beautiful song, I have sung it often as I am an ex-protestant but I can understand how it is hard for Catholics to sing a song that references something they know isn't true. It is God's grace that saves us, we can do nothing to earn our salvation but we need to respond. Protestants believe that response is just an act of faith; believing, as the song says, "the hour I first believed."
Catholics know truly that our response is faith and works as it says in: Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love" ...faith working through love...just as the Church teaches.

Equites Christi · #42 May 16, '12, 4:55 pm

I don't like it because it's very American and usually when there's a piece of music in the Mass that sounds distinctly American, I think it sucks

I don't get offended when I hear it, just annoyed

aicirt · #43 May 16, '12, 4:56 pm

Amazing Grace was written by a British minister who had previously be a sea captain transporting slaves from Africa. He was, therefore, a wretch. Totally appropriate and very moving IF you know the history. I say this because I'm of a certain age where this hymn was seen as totally Protestant and would never be sung in a Catholic church. I never even listened to the words. Now I'm very moved.

There's a 2006 film by the same name re. William Wilburforce's and William Pitt, The Younger, struggles to outlaw the slave trade in England. Worth seeing.

That being said, I think we could use more hymns that have a Catholic history. Too many are Protestant and rather bland.

LoyalViews · #44 May 16, '12, 5:01 pm

It has to do with what the hymns says about grace.

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.

See here, and here.

Corki · #45 May 16, '12, 5:11 pm

I personally hate the song but it's not really heretical or un-Catholic. The only problematic portion is the second verse. It can be read to mean that grace only come after a profession of faith which would not be consistent with Catholic teaching. But you don't have to interpret it that way.