Amazing Grace innapropriate for Church? - Page 4

Corki · #46 May 16, '12, 5:17 pm

I personally hate the song but it's not really heretical or un-Catholic. The only problematic portion is the second verse. It can be read to mean that grace only come after a profession of faith which would not be consistent with Catholic teaching. But you don't have to interpret it that way.

**pnewton** · #47 May 16, '12, 5:22 pm

Does this work?

The Curt Jester · #48 May 16, '12, 5:34 pm

The problem comes in that the lyrics back up the Protestant belief of accepting Jesus int one's heart and being automatically saved.

The Curt Jester · #49 May 16, '12, 5:35 pm

The problem comes in the lyrics backing up the Protestant belief that once a person accepts Jesus into his heart, he's automatically saved.

Roy5 · #50 May 16, '12, 5:44 pm

The word 'wretch' bothered me until I learned that John Newton had been the captain of a slave ship until his conversion. One story goes that his ship was caught in a violent storm at sea. In his terror he promised God that if he survived he would give up his evil business and become a minister. When the storm subsided he headed to the nearest port, left the ship for good, and went to the nearest church to commit his life to Christ.

I can remember, years ago, that Catholics didn't even sing carols like "O Little Town of Bethlehem" or "Hark, the Herald Angels Sing" because their authors (Brooks and Wesley) were Protestants. Thank God for John XXIII and Vatican II which put a stop to such bigoted nonsense.

Cavaille-Coll · #51 May 16, '12, 5:57 pm

The question is in the line "How precious did that grace appear, the hour I first believed." This line implies a rejection of baptismal grace via the heresy of Sola Fide (faith alone).

Cat · #52 May 16, '12, 6:11 pm

The reason that I have heard from Catholics who think that Amazing Grace is inappropriate for Mass is that they believe the hymn implies "once saved always saved (OSAS)," which is contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church (and also contrary to quite a few Protestant denominations, including some evangelical denominations).

Also, they believe that the hymn implies that a person is "saved" in a one-time act of "belief" ("how precious did that grace appear the hour I first believed), rather than over a lifetime of trusting in Christ and remaining loyal to Him.

I think that the hymn's words are general enough that we can infer those things, or we as Catholics can infer something quite different.

For example, Catholics believe in sanctifying grace, and we can choose to sing the hymn and keep this sanctifying grace in our mind.

Also, many Catholics will testify of a point in their lives when their faith all made sense to them, when their Catholic faith became real and personal, and when they made a conscious, mature decision to follow Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, and to follow the entire teachings of the Catholic Church to their best ability. That would fit with the lyrics 'how precious did that grace appear the hour I first believed."

I love the hymn. We sing it fairly regularly in our parish, but we also sing many traditional Catholic hymns, so there is a nice balance and plenty of musical catechesis. I don't think too many people in our parish are in danger of being led into OSAS through the occasional singing of Amazing Grace.

George Stegmeir · #53 May 16, '12, 6:18 pm

I attended a Parochial School in a Jesuit Parisn that was run by Irish Nuns, a goo 20 years before V II. We were taught that saying Protestant Prayers-like their version of the Our Father or singing Protestant Hymns was a mortal sin.
I was away from the Church for many many years, and when I returned, everything except the essential doctrines was changed! Even the original English translation of the Mass was not even remotely like the Latin, it was more like something out of the Episcopal Church. Thankfully the new translation has changed that.
I fully accept Holy Mother the Church's right to modernize itself, and if our Bishops permit Protestant Hymns to be sung at Mass, I will obey them. However, I am still uncomfortable when I hear "Heavenly Sunshine"-the old Southern Baptist standby,"Amazing Grace", the great Calvanist Anthem, assorted Negro Spirituals, and "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" by Martin Luther being sung in a Catholic Church. Apart from liturgical nuances, I feel this music sort of waters down the cultural and spiritual uniqueness of Holy Mother the Church.
Sing their hymns and saying their versions of prayers are not going to lure any of "them" into our church.

anp1215 · #54 May 16, '12, 6:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equites Christi

I don't like it because it's very American and usually when there's a piece of music in the Mass that sounds distinctly American, I think it sucks

I don't get offended when I hear it, just annoyed

It's not American, it was written by an Englishman.

Brendan · #55 May 16, '12, 6:27 pm

The song has never been the same since I found out that you can sing Amazing Grace to the Gilligans Island tune, and vice versa. Oh yea, and to House of the Rising Sun as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKN1g...ayer_embedded#!

LoyalViews · #56 May 16, '12, 6:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavaille-Coll

The question is in the line "How precious did that grace appear, the hour I first believed." This line implies a rejection of baptismal grace via the heresy of Sola Fide (faith alone).

Yes, there you go. That's what I was thinking of.

The tune is SOOO nice though, but it could easily be fit with alternate words....though that would be highly, highly, controversial!

Nigel7 · #57 May 16, '12, 6:41 pm

I rock me some Amazing Grace on my acoustic guitar, and it rocks.

Cathryn · #58 May 16, '12, 6:50 pm

The hour I first believed is the grace of God. It is what we refer as the "Call to Holiness". Nothing un-Catholic about it. This is lesson one RCIA.

**pnewton** · #59 May 16, '12, 7:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ready

Michael Voris form RealCatholicTV explained how some of the words are heretical.

As a serious sceptic of Michael Voris, and a believer that heresy gets tossed around way too much, might I inquire as to what dogma it denies and where in the lyric he thinks it is denied?

Julia Mae · #60 May 16, '12, 7:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana Catherine

The line, "saved a wretch like me" bothers some Catholics because they know that once saved, always saved is wrong. .

So, if a Catholic had written the line, we would just assume he meant he was saved and had been quite a wretch, but if this man does it, because he belongs to a church with some specific theology, we think he imposes different meaning, evoking the whole of his church's theology?

It's a prayer. It's personal. It's set to music.